Hopping on the borders train, I really like how non-convergent this world map is. I can't believe how many alt-United States still have the Gadsden Purchase as a southern border in TLs with PODs before 1854, even though the exact course of events going down for the US to by that exact strip of land from Mexico is highly unlikely, for example.
Sword and Spirit: A Paille-au-Nez World
- Thread starter Goweegie2
- Start date
Napoléon I
He was born in Corsica to a relatively modest Italian family from minor nobility. He was serving as an artillery officer in the French army when the French Revolution erupted in 1789. He rapidly rose through the ranks of the military, seizing the new opportunities presented by the Revolution and becoming a general at age 24. He would go on to lead several successful military campaigns, establishing "sister republics" in Italy with local support, and becoming a war hero in France. In 1798 he would lead a military campaign in Egypt which he would use as a springboard to stage a coup and declare himself First Consul of France. After the Peace of Amiens in 1802, Napoléon turned his attention to France's colonies. He sold the Louisiana Territory to the United States, and he attempted to restore slavery to the French Caribbean colonies. However, while he was successful in restoring slavery in the eastern Caribbean, Napoleon failed in his attempts to subdue Saint-Domingue, and the colony that France once proudly boasted of as the "Pearl of the Antilles" became independent as Haiti in 1804. Napoléon's ambition and public approval inspired him to declare himself Emperor of the French in 1804, and proceed to begin invasions of continental Europe, carving out a sphere of influence from Iberia to Poland and even dissolving the Holy Roman Empire. However his campaigns would take a turn for the worse during his attempted invasion of Russia, and he would soon be chased back into France.
Following a Barbary pirate raid on Corsica which French intelligence initially mistook for a British attack, Napoléon would accept the Treaty of Frankfurt in 1813, reducing France to its "natural" 1801 borders. However, these borders also included numerous ethnic Dutch in Rhenania and ethnic Netherlanders in Flanders, who would stage a handful of revolts throughout the remainder of Napoléon's reign. He would however be successful in quelling said revolts, as well as settling some parts of southern Rhenania with French colonists. Napoléon would also command the French armies in the Pan-Balkan War against the Ottoman Empire, being credited by many as the driving force behind the Ottomans' loss.
Napoléon would die peacefully in his sleep in 1837, being succeeded as Emperor by his eldest son Napoléon II.
They never managed to yoink Champa so Champa is still its own thing
The problem with yeeting Champa is that by the time the PoD occurs Vietnam has already colonized its merry way to its OTL borders under the Nguyễn dynasty. Champa still existed in the early 19th century but it was a broken remnant of a shadow of its former existence; Minh Mạng ended its existence in 1832.
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I am by no mean knowledgeable in Vietnamese history, but I'm pretty sure there could be a successful revolt, especially if a country engages in colonial and/or commercial shinenigans in that part of the world. However, I guess French support would be even stronger if Napoleon hasn't been defeated ... it's tricky.
Eh, it's pretty easy for Nappy to switch to supporting Champa rather than the Nguyen dynasty
Indeed, although I'm most curious about the Bolivia-Paraguay-Uruguay country.
The problem is that by the time of the PoD Champa is this tiny-ass remnant that can't do anything.
This was the territorial extent of Champa by the end of the eighteenth century-
The Tay Son brothers had divided up Vietnam- the blue was Nguyen Hue and the yellow was Nguyen Nhac, with future emperor Gia Long briefly ruling the green for a while. See that thing called Thuan Thanh Tran? That was the remnant of Champa before your PoD rolls around.
By that time the Nguyen lords had essentially extirpated the Cham people from Vietnam, reducing them to that pitiful little state. Even if they had all the guns in the world the Cham couldn't break out from that. The land that had once been theirs was now alien to them, crawling with Vietnamese.
It's ironic that Vietnamese people cry foul to China but pay lip service to their own subjugation and virtual extermination of a people as well.
If you want a strong Champa, you'll have to go all the way back to the 14th century when Po Binasuor/Chế Bồng Nga unified Champa and was strong enough to attack Thang Long (now Hanoi).
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I think most of this could be turned around by Europeans directly aiding a Cham revolt
There are no landlocked countries in South America ITTL, those are just non-state territories of Brazil
So Columbia, Ecuador, North Argentina (+Uruguay+Paraguay) and South Brazil all have "non-state territories"? (as well as Britain(!) and Australia)
(Sort of surprised that the "Canadian" Territories come as farsouth as they do around OTL Manitoba, but there are states that far north out at the Rockies) and wondering if there is anything limiting the population in Townsville, Australia and the rest of far Northeast Australia.
Yes, for the most part. I used the same color for non-state territories (equivalent to OTL Puerto Rico) in countries in the Americas and Australia as I did for autonomous regions in countries like Britain and Spain
You just really don’t wanna change your map, don’t you?
Anyways, it would make more sense for the French to make deals with the Tây Sơn dynasty who was in charge of Vietnam at the time, rather than waste efforts inspiring a tiny protectorate waaaaay past it’s expiration date to revolt against their masters.
By the time of the PoD, there are simply not enough Chams to make that feasible. Vietnamese in the south region alone outnumbered them by like, a 1:5 ratio.
Anyways, it would make more sense for the French to make deals with the Tây Sơn dynasty who was in charge of Vietnam at the time, rather than waste efforts inspiring a tiny protectorate waaaaay past it’s expiration date to revolt against their masters.
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Bruh, this sounds like you're getting a bit too riled up over this Champa thing. Then again, I'm not the best judge of emotion even in verbal situations, so I could be totally wrong.
Still though, I think at this point you should just stop repeating the same fact. You've made your point and now, either she listens to you or she doesn't, and clearly so far she hasn't. Like, you can't force someone to change their own TL.
She clearly said that this TL would be fairly realistic and well researched but leave some room for the rule of cool. This might just be one of those few rule of cool bits.
To be completely honest, if I saw a TL where I have only one problem with the whole world map, I'd consider it a pretty damn good one.
okay.
But Vietnam takes aside the fact that the napoleonic empire could be preserved by the Emperor getting spooked is a pretty original concept.
I already subbed.
But Vietnam takes aside the fact that the napoleonic empire could be preserved by the Emperor getting spooked is a pretty original concept.
I already subbed.
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By the way, sorry if I came off as a little too angry. I was in a bit of a bad mood at the time.
If there are very few Cham people, and Nappy decides to support them, could there be some immigration from French India ? The Chams are Hindu if I remember correctly, ... there could be a Cham-Indian majority with the Chams keeping the upper hand by having a Cham monarch and a Cham-speaking administration. You start from a protectorate on the small pocket of land because Nappy is always in for a small territorial expansion, then have the Vietnamese dynasty desplease him and expand Cham to it's pre-invasion borders to punish them, while sending French and French-Indian people to avoid a Vietnamese majority in his protectorate.