Soviet Carrier Aircraft

Deleted member 9338

It is often talked about the possibility of Soviet obtaining carriers in the 1930s, 40s and 50s, but I have never seen what aircraft they would have used on their flattops. I see little possibility in converting land based designs so what will Stalin use on his carriers?
 
Prewar, the Chyetverikov PT-1 torpedo bomber and Beriev KOR-3 reconnaissance aircraft were planned. Postwar, the Tupolev Tu-91 torpedo bomber was planned, probably most comparable to the A2D Skyshark.

Fighters seem to be more of a question. The PT-1 may have had a secondary role as a fighter, but it doesn't seem terribly suitable for the role. The MiG I-250 was being pushed to Naval Aviation at one point, so that's a possibility. Otherwise, I'd assume derivatives of land-based fighters - in this era, that was much more feasible than later.
 

Deleted member 9338

The MiG I-250 is a possibility as a fighter but going through the list of Soviet fighters there is the possibility of a naval-ized version of of the I-153, or the I-190 or I-195.
 
. I see little possibility in converting land based designs so what will Stalin use on his carriers?


You said so yourself. We don't know who Stalin would have ordered to build a naval fighter, because he didn't. It might have looked like a Grigarovich or a Polikarpov, without saying or knowing what a Grigarovich or a Polikarpov look like. What do you want it to look like?
 
F4F Wildcats and Sea Hurricanes from Lend Lease
That's my guess. AIUI, Soviet single engined fighters of WW2 made the Spitfire look like a long ranged bird. Per wiki...

MiG-3 - 510 miles
Lavochkin La-5 - 475 miles
Yakovlev Yak-3 - 405 miles

Where I think the Soviets, in their go big or go home attitude will excel is in fielding the largest multiple-engine carrier-based bombers. So, in addition to naval variants of the Ilyushin Il-2 and Il-10, this would include the Petlyakov Pe-2 and Tupolev Tu-2.
 
That's my guess. AIUI, Soviet single engined fighters of WW2 made the Spitfire look like a long ranged bird. Per wiki...

MiG-3 - 510 miles
Lavochkin La-5 - 475 miles
Yakovlev Yak-3 - 405 miles

Where I think the Soviets, in their go big or go home attitude will excel is in fielding the largest multiple-engine carrier-based bombers. So, in addition to naval variants of the Ilyushin Il-2 and Il-10, this would include the Petlyakov Pe-2 and Tupolev Tu-2.

OTL the Soviets assigned a lot of the P-40s they got in Lend Lease to Naval Aviation because their "long range" made them better suited to over water missions.
 

Deleted member 9338

You said so yourself. We don't know who Stalin would have ordered to build a naval fighter, because he didn't. It might have looked like a Grigarovich or a Polikarpov, without saying or knowing what a Grigarovich or a Polikarpov look like. What do you want it to look like?

I just find it odd that carriers were on the design boards but little is written about what was going aboard them.
 
Another slant on the same explanation was that they preferred the P-39 to the P-40 for real combat, and assigning P-40s to naval is like sending fighters to Burma.
 
Another slant on the same explanation was that they preferred the P-39 to the P-40 for real combat, and assigning P-40s to naval is like sending fighters to Burma.
P-40 for naval wouldn't be any worse that a Sea Hurricane.

These Merlin powered P-40s look, IMO, especially good on this USN carrier.

57FGRanger001a.jpg
 
This is a question that has troubled me for years - lots on the carriers themselves but little if anything on what they were to carry. This is my view based on years of hunting:

- For the late 20's/early 30's I see a navalized I-5 biplane fighter, similar to the Grumman F4B. I think it would have done about as well as anything. The R-5 recon/light bomber could be fitted with a torpedo so I see those for the attack aircraft.

For the mid to late 30's I would like to go with the MiG-3, but it was too light and weakly armed. The LaGG-3 is too heavy. My guess might be a navalized I-16 with an enclosed cockpit. For attack I would go with the Su-6.

Immediately postwar I keep seeing in Soviet publications interest in a navalized La-7 or La-11, which would work with a larger wing to increase lift. A torpedo bomber was under development - the one drawing I've seen shows it to be very similar to the B7N "Grace" but with clipped wingtips. I'm sure the Soviets captured a number of IJN carrier aircraft and studied them intensely.

For the 50's the attack aircraft was to the the turboprop Tu-91, the fighter would probably have been a navalized MiG-15 or MiG-17.

Hope this helps...
 
Everyone thinks a navy should use a navalized landplane fighter. Britain and Germany did. Well, Japan and the US didn't. Why would they? Their navies weren't bastard step-children. The Soviets didn't build their carrier and they didn't make their naval fighters. If they were going to do one thing, they could do the other at the same time. It's not rocket science, just aeronautics. That's why they had tSAGI and special aircraft designers' prison.
 
Everyone thinks a navy should use a navalized landplane fighter. Britain and Germany did. Well, Japan and the US didn't. Why would they? Their navies weren't bastard step-children. The Soviets didn't build their carrier and they didn't make their naval fighters.
While the British did use three navalized landplane fighters (Gladiator, Seafire, Hurricane), most of their aircraft were designed as carrier aircraft. The FAA top scoring fighter of all time, the Fulmar, was certainly not a gone-over landplane.

As for the Soviets, we don't know of course what path they'd take. Certainly with enough money and time anything is possible. If the Soviets follow the German or Italian model of aspiring to one or two carriers, then it would make sense to use land based aircraft. On the other hand, the USN model justifies a fleet of specialized carrier aircraft.

By 1944, the USN had 14 Essex class (each with 90+ aircraft), 9 Independence class (33 aircraft), 1 Yorktown class (90 aircraft), 1 Lexington class (78+ aircraft), 1 Ranger (78 aircraft), 50 Casablanca class (28 aircraft), 2 Commencement Bay class (34 aircraft), 4 Sangamon class (25+ aircraft), 1 Avenger class (15 aircraft), 1 Long Island class (21 aircraft). That's over 3,400 aircraft, plus those used in training and cycling through retirement and replacement, or nearly double the size of the entire operational Italian air force of Sept 1939.

If the Soviets plan to operate a naval aviation system requiring nearly 5,000 aircraft then I'd say they'd build something custom. But then again, they did build 230-odd Yakovlev Yak-38 solely for the navy, so who knows what they'd do?
 

Deleted member 9338

I wonder if a good POD would be the Soviets requesting the TBF as part of lend lease?
 
The Grigorovich IP-5 would make a fine initial entry naval fighter.
 

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Deleted member 9338

It does have the look of the early, 1930s, carrier aircraft. Not sure of the cannons though.
 

Tovarich

Banned
I just find it odd that carriers were on the design boards but little is written about what was going aboard them.
RN FAA must've laughed themselves silly about that, secure in the knowledge that their service would never find itself in such an embarrassing situation XD
 
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