Something Serious Has Happened on Air Force One (a Tl/story by Geon)
- Thread starter Geon
- Start date
That's not strictly true. The Electoral College electors from Massachusetts can't choose both of them in the 1964 Presidential election, assuming they are the nominees, but the other state electors can; if they can both reach 270 with at least one of them missing Massachusetts, then they can both be elected.
Last edited:
Nick P
Donor
That's not correct. It just looks better and gains wider appeal from voters if both candidates are from different areas.
Can the President and Vice President Be From the Same State? | HISTORY
A particular aspect of the Electoral College system has led to some confusion on this question.
www.history.com
Must the President and Vice-President Be from Different States?
History: Many people believe the U.S. constitution requires that presidential and vice-presidential candidates be from different states. Is that really the case?
www.snopes.com
I think the rule is that if both candidates on the same party ticket are from the same state then they can’t get the Electoral Vote from that state in an election.
A McCormack/RFK ticket would almost certainly beat Goldwater/Miller badly enough that the 14 lost electoral votes from Massachusetts didn't matter.
McCormack plans not to run in the 1964 election, he’s hoping that RFK becomes his Vice President so then he can run. Also who’s to say that Goldwater will run in ‘64, it’s possible if not likely that many Republicans will try their luck in the next election due to the Democratic Party’s stability taking a huge hit in recent events in the story now having a President in charge who I didn’t even know existed in IRL until I played TNO: The Last Days of Europe after JFK is assassinated in the game. We could see people like Nixon try his luck earlier on and in that case we could see Reagan gaining notoriety earlier in this timeline.
There's no Constitutional way to fill the vacant Vice Presidency before 1964. McCormack could try to get RFK appointed House Speaker then resign so RFK becomes Acting President, but a lot of voters would find that too confusing and sketchy, given what's already occurred. Or he could just not run and endorse RFK as the nominee next year.
Based on the last story post it looks like McCormack is trying everything he can to find a way to be able to make RFK Vice President and sounds like he might be trying to find a way to do this through the use of implied powers in the constitution.
Reagan was supporting Goldwater at that time, IIRC, and was a Republican since less than a year. I doubt he could get nominated ( not impossible, of course, but quite improbable ).
Chapter Four (contd.) Oswald's Questioning and Kennedy
Geon
Donor
Elsewhere in Washington, at the Justice Department, Attorney General Robert Kennedy was listening to a report by the Secret Service agent who had been put in charge of the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald. He was less than happy with what he was hearing.
“So far, Oswald has refused to say anything except that he wants a lawyer,” the agent said looking at his notes. “When asked about his time in Russia, his political activities, or anything having to do with the shooting he simply says he won’t speak without a lawyer present.” The agent sighed and continued, “As to the shooting of patrolman Tibbets all Oswald will say was it was in self-defense and again, he asks for a lawyer before he says anything.”
“I don’t see that we’re getting anywhere currently with this,” the agent continued. “Maybe it's time to change our approach.” “How so?” The attorney general asked not certain he would like the answer.
“Maybe we need to start using some more…enhanced interrogation techniques,” the agent began before he was cut off by Kennedy. “If you’re going where I think you are the answer is no,” replied the young attorney general.
As he said this inside Kennedy was at war with himself. Part of him wanted to see the man who had purportedly shot his brother be hurt for what he had done and hurt badly. But the part of him that was a lawyer and his conscience fought back pointing out that both morally and legally this was not an acceptable option.
The Attorney General continued. “If we start using the techniques that I presume you are suggesting not only would that be unethical, but it would bounce back on us in court once this comes to trial. I want Oswald to be found guilty. And I want to make sure that this case is airtight enough that it doesn’t give any ammunition to the right wing or left-wing crazies out there to form conspiracy theories they can use to recruit to their respective causes.”
The agent sighed and said, “Yes sir, Mr. Kennedy.”
“Look into getting Oswald a lawyer” Robert Kennedy continued.
“And make certain that any questioning stays clean and above board. We don’t want this man walking free on a technicality or using the trial as a platform for his ideas. Keep up the pressure without any rough stuff, sooner or later he’ll say something we can use.”
“So far, Oswald has refused to say anything except that he wants a lawyer,” the agent said looking at his notes. “When asked about his time in Russia, his political activities, or anything having to do with the shooting he simply says he won’t speak without a lawyer present.” The agent sighed and continued, “As to the shooting of patrolman Tibbets all Oswald will say was it was in self-defense and again, he asks for a lawyer before he says anything.”
“I don’t see that we’re getting anywhere currently with this,” the agent continued. “Maybe it's time to change our approach.” “How so?” The attorney general asked not certain he would like the answer.
“Maybe we need to start using some more…enhanced interrogation techniques,” the agent began before he was cut off by Kennedy. “If you’re going where I think you are the answer is no,” replied the young attorney general.
As he said this inside Kennedy was at war with himself. Part of him wanted to see the man who had purportedly shot his brother be hurt for what he had done and hurt badly. But the part of him that was a lawyer and his conscience fought back pointing out that both morally and legally this was not an acceptable option.
The Attorney General continued. “If we start using the techniques that I presume you are suggesting not only would that be unethical, but it would bounce back on us in court once this comes to trial. I want Oswald to be found guilty. And I want to make sure that this case is airtight enough that it doesn’t give any ammunition to the right wing or left-wing crazies out there to form conspiracy theories they can use to recruit to their respective causes.”
The agent sighed and said, “Yes sir, Mr. Kennedy.”
“Look into getting Oswald a lawyer” Robert Kennedy continued.
“And make certain that any questioning stays clean and above board. We don’t want this man walking free on a technicality or using the trial as a platform for his ideas. Keep up the pressure without any rough stuff, sooner or later he’ll say something we can use.”
Last edited:
Very smart move, sure the other options suggested "could" be more personally satisfying but they would absolutely torpedo any trial. This might be the more tedious route but it not only keeps the trial on track but Robert will still be able to look the man in the mirror in the eyes without shame going forward (something that you really can't put a price tag on).
Chapter Four (contd.) A Meeting at the White House
Geon
Donor
At 2:30 p.m. that afternoon President John McCormack hosted a private meeting for Democratic leaders of the House of Representatives at the White House. Among those present were the newly elected Speaker of the House, Carl Albert. Who President McCormack reminded himself may be the next president if I can’t find a way to get Bobby to be my vice-president.
McCormack knew his health was not that good. And he also knew the terrible strain the job of president put on those who sat behind the desk of the Oval Office. He devoutly prayed he would have the strength to last until January of 1965. Right now, the country doesn’t need any more shocks.
On that note he began the informal meeting.
“Gentlemen before I begin this meeting, I’d like you to look at something. This leaflet was being passed around Dallas at the time of President Kennedy’s visit.” Here President McCormack passed a sheet around to the other Democratic leaders of the House.
“Notice especially items 4 and 5 on this piece of trash,” McCormack said.
“Gentlemen, at present there are so many unknowns in the present situation it is not funny. We don’t know if Oswald was acting alone or part of a wider plot. We don’t know what happened when Johnson was shot on Air Force One. Was that an accident or part of a larger plan? Director Hoover is doing his best to get us these answers but as of right now we know virtually nothing.”
One of the House members spoke up. “Wasn’t Oswald a communist? I heard he spent some time in Russia?” McCormack looked at the House member and said, “He is an avowed communist yes. But Hoover doesn’t think we can eliminate the possibility of some sort of – in his words – ‘unholy alliance’ between far left and far right groups to decapitate our government each with his own set of goals in mind. We can’t dismiss the possibility.”
McCormack took a deep breath. “For that reason, even though I personally support it, until we know whether or not what happened in Dallas was a conspiracy or not, I am going to suggest that we temporarily table the Civil Rights Act.”
Carl Albert spoke up, “Are you sure John, the Act would be a fitting tribute to Kennedy who supported the Act’s passage.”
McCormack nodded. “I don’t like doing this Carl. But if we go ahead with this and it is a conspiracy of some type, we risk the southern states going up in flames both literally and figuratively. If this is a conspiracy, we not only risk having to send federal troops into the south again, which won’t be popular with white voters but we also risk losing the south come the 1964 elections.”
McCormack continued, “No, until we know more about what happened we can’t take the risk. We’ll try to help local and state civil rights leaders as we are able, but the Act must be temporarily tabled for now. Once we’re certain there is no conspiracy we’ll go ahead and get this through the Congress but for now we need to tread lightly.”
Albert shook his head. “Dr. King won’t be happy about this.”
“I’ll speak to Dr. King and explain the situation to him. I’ll also advise him for his own safety to keep a low profile. If this is a conspiracy you can bet someone has him in his gunsights. The last thing we need right now gentlemen is race riots exploding across the south. Until Hoover can get us the answers that we need I think this is the best course of action.”
McCormack knew his health was not that good. And he also knew the terrible strain the job of president put on those who sat behind the desk of the Oval Office. He devoutly prayed he would have the strength to last until January of 1965. Right now, the country doesn’t need any more shocks.
On that note he began the informal meeting.
“Gentlemen before I begin this meeting, I’d like you to look at something. This leaflet was being passed around Dallas at the time of President Kennedy’s visit.” Here President McCormack passed a sheet around to the other Democratic leaders of the House.
“Notice especially items 4 and 5 on this piece of trash,” McCormack said.
“Gentlemen, at present there are so many unknowns in the present situation it is not funny. We don’t know if Oswald was acting alone or part of a wider plot. We don’t know what happened when Johnson was shot on Air Force One. Was that an accident or part of a larger plan? Director Hoover is doing his best to get us these answers but as of right now we know virtually nothing.”
One of the House members spoke up. “Wasn’t Oswald a communist? I heard he spent some time in Russia?” McCormack looked at the House member and said, “He is an avowed communist yes. But Hoover doesn’t think we can eliminate the possibility of some sort of – in his words – ‘unholy alliance’ between far left and far right groups to decapitate our government each with his own set of goals in mind. We can’t dismiss the possibility.”
McCormack took a deep breath. “For that reason, even though I personally support it, until we know whether or not what happened in Dallas was a conspiracy or not, I am going to suggest that we temporarily table the Civil Rights Act.”
Carl Albert spoke up, “Are you sure John, the Act would be a fitting tribute to Kennedy who supported the Act’s passage.”
McCormack nodded. “I don’t like doing this Carl. But if we go ahead with this and it is a conspiracy of some type, we risk the southern states going up in flames both literally and figuratively. If this is a conspiracy, we not only risk having to send federal troops into the south again, which won’t be popular with white voters but we also risk losing the south come the 1964 elections.”
McCormack continued, “No, until we know more about what happened we can’t take the risk. We’ll try to help local and state civil rights leaders as we are able, but the Act must be temporarily tabled for now. Once we’re certain there is no conspiracy we’ll go ahead and get this through the Congress but for now we need to tread lightly.”
Albert shook his head. “Dr. King won’t be happy about this.”
“I’ll speak to Dr. King and explain the situation to him. I’ll also advise him for his own safety to keep a low profile. If this is a conspiracy you can bet someone has him in his gunsights. The last thing we need right now gentlemen is race riots exploding across the south. Until Hoover can get us the answers that we need I think this is the best course of action.”
Last edited:
Conspiracy or not, this is a disaster! Once tabled, it might just die completely.
If it is a conspiracy, the conspirators just won a major victory.
With LBJ dead and McCormack no longer Speaker, it may be difficult to get civil rights passed in any event. Is Hale Boggs the new House Majority Leader?
Last edited:
Sadly in political terms, McCormack may be imagining the worse house vote with 58.8% Democrats to 41.2% republicans (rather than OTL 290–130 result)
He could fear the southern democrats like Howard W. Smith, pulling up their Southern Manifesto.
Many believe that without LBJ’s experience and personality that got the bill passed.