Something Serious Has Happened on Air Force One (a Tl/story by Geon)
- Thread starter Geon
- Start date
Completely agree with this especially if someone felt that you was implying an OTL innocent police officer was guilty of killing Vice President Johnson.
Also the Police Chief is called Jesse Curry.
Great story none the less.
I just don't see how any justice in their right mind would believe that Texas law would supersede federal law, especially involving the death of a president.
Anyone know if autopsies were performed on McKinley, Harding or FDR where they died?
Anyone know if autopsies were performed on McKinley, Harding or FDR where they died?
This is the state that deliberately built our Capitol fifteen feet taller than the U.S. Capitol, and demanded and got the right to fly the Texas flag beside rather than below Old Glory
You're talking about Texas law enforcement here.
The death of the president was to be dealt with under Texas law, at least to a point. The death of the VP IS NOT! It is 100% federal, and I think that Uncle Sam has grounds to arrest every single cop on suspicion of murder. The way the cops conducted the review, with everyone in the same room coordinating stories, is grounds for conspiracy and obstruction of justice charges. They might not stick, but IMVHO, the need is to get people into custody RIGHT NOW!
Where are the weapons used in the crime? If they aren't in Federal hands, with a clear chain of evidence, even more hell will break loose. Even if the Dallas PD handled them correctly, no one will believe it.
"In their right mind" doesn't belong.
The death of the president was to be dealt with under Texas law, at least to a point. The death of the VP IS NOT! It is 100% federal, and I think that Uncle Sam has grounds to arrest every single cop on suspicion of murder. The way the cops conducted the review, with everyone in the same room coordinating stories, is grounds for conspiracy and obstruction of justice charges. They might not stick, but IMVHO, the need is to get people into custody RIGHT NOW!
Where are the weapons used in the crime? If they aren't in Federal hands, with a clear chain of evidence, even more hell will break loose. Even if the Dallas PD handled them correctly, no one will believe it.
SuperZtar64
Banned
Assassinating the president was not a federal crime in 1963. There was nothing on the rulebooks about it. The death of John F. Kennedy was a murder and it's Texas state law that takes precedence.
Yes--but storming Air Force One changes everything. Now we have so many federal crimes that it's not funny, and anything leading up to it, or as a possible result, can be investigated on a Federal level. Who, if anyone, comitted crimes can be determined, but the investigation of the events on the plane is federal. Then there's Hoover at the FBI--as i said, I never thought I'd see a time when I was rooting for Hoover! But him and the Attorney General, and the Department of Defense, are not going to be stopped.
We haven't heard much from the court of public opinion yet, either. Massachusetts must be ready to march south as they did just over a century ago--and once again, with an Irish Brigade.
Johnson gave Dr Rose permission to board, technically the Secret Service would over-ride him on allowing the ARMED Dallas "Police" on-board and if they insisted on following Dr. Rose they'd be disarmed or denied.
Now knowing Johnson he could easily over-ride the Secret Service or even given the relative crowding going on around the entrance it's possible the DPD pushed their way on-board behind Dr. Rose but in context the Secret Service, not Johnson was in charge of security and even Johnson would realize the precedent being set if he allowed the DPD to board the plane.
My "take" is that part of the 'issues' being "discussed vigorously" onboard Air Force One was the Secret Service trying to get the DPD back OFF the plane them refusing to do so. I can see Johnson 'inviting' Dr. rose aboard but not the DPD, and especially armed as he's just about as paranoid at this point as the Secret Service agents and for the same reason. I'll also point out that "invited" or not the Feds will still insist on pushing Federal Trespassing charges on the DPD as it's a common tactic to throw every possible charge into the mix and see what sticks. It's going to be a point of argument and I'm guessing it wont' be resolvable to any degree of certainty at this point.
Which was the genesis of the whole incident in the first place
The thing was the body WAS removed to "Federal Territory" so the decision to go after it already starts a slippery slope problem. The MAIN problem is that to put it simply no "state" justice is going to be able to provide a write that anyone on Air Force One would find plausible since the body is already OUT of State hands and in Federal hands/territory. Being able to take the body back is highly unlikely.Ya as I understand it the flag thing was because of a precedent set by Vermont since it was never a "colony" but an actual independent Nation before becoming a State. (It was also an independent Nation longer than Texas
)Randy
But unlike Texas, we never bragged and acted like that was the only thing about us.Ya as I understand it the flag thing was because of a precedent set by Vermont since it was never a "colony" but an actual independent Nation before becoming a State. (It was also an independent Nation longer than Texas
Randy
Plus security concerns. Bunch of unknowns, who may be involved in a possible conspiracy using it as a excuse to swipe classified materials?
Chapter Two (contd.) The Nightly News
Geon
Donor
New York, New York, NBC News Studios, 8:00 p.m. (EST):
As a very eventful news day ended Chet Huntley and David Brinkley summarized the events of the day.
Chet Huntley: President Kennedy’s casket is scheduled to be moved by a caisson procession tomorrow to the Capitol building where it will remain for 24 hours for viewing by the public. Vice President Johnson’s casket is presently in the Austin state capitol building where it will remain until its funeral on Tuesday.
David Brinkley: In related news NBC has learned that the accused assassin of President Kennedy, and Dallas Police Officer Tippets, Lee Harvey Oswald, has been moved to a “secure location” here in Washington “for his own safety” according to an unnamed government source.
Chet Huntley: Both in Austin, Texas and in Washington, D.C. there are calls for an investigation into the events on Air Force One as well as the events that occurred in the fatal motorcade. Senator Hubert Humphrey has called for a Senate investigation to convene immediately following the days of mourning President McCormack declared yesterday. Likewise in Austin, Lieutenant Governor Preston Earnest Smith, standing in for Governor John Connelly who is still recovering from his injuries, has asked the Texas legislature to launch a full investigation into the actions of the Dallas Police Department both in the motorcade and at Air Force One. In response to this Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry declared his department would cooperate with both investigations. In Chief Curry’s words, “the Dallas Police Department has nothing to hide.”
As a very eventful news day ended Chet Huntley and David Brinkley summarized the events of the day.
Chet Huntley: President Kennedy’s casket is scheduled to be moved by a caisson procession tomorrow to the Capitol building where it will remain for 24 hours for viewing by the public. Vice President Johnson’s casket is presently in the Austin state capitol building where it will remain until its funeral on Tuesday.
David Brinkley: In related news NBC has learned that the accused assassin of President Kennedy, and Dallas Police Officer Tippets, Lee Harvey Oswald, has been moved to a “secure location” here in Washington “for his own safety” according to an unnamed government source.
Chet Huntley: Both in Austin, Texas and in Washington, D.C. there are calls for an investigation into the events on Air Force One as well as the events that occurred in the fatal motorcade. Senator Hubert Humphrey has called for a Senate investigation to convene immediately following the days of mourning President McCormack declared yesterday. Likewise in Austin, Lieutenant Governor Preston Earnest Smith, standing in for Governor John Connelly who is still recovering from his injuries, has asked the Texas legislature to launch a full investigation into the actions of the Dallas Police Department both in the motorcade and at Air Force One. In response to this Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry declared his department would cooperate with both investigations. In Chief Curry’s words, “the Dallas Police Department has nothing to hide.”
They have nothing to hide. They've already hidden the evidence or destroyed it, cast doubt, lost evidence, and more, I'm sure. Just the way all the cops involved were interviewed together would be damning in many eyes.
Chapter Two (contd.) The Oval Office
Geon
Donor
Washington, D.C.; The White House, 9:35 p.m.:
It had been a very long day. Supervising the transfer of his brother’s body to Washington, the autopsy, supervising the funeral arrangements. Robert F. Kennedy was tired. And yet he was now approaching the Oval Office. He had been told President McCormack wanted to see him.
Secret Service agents nodded him through the doors, and he saw John McCormack sitting at the desk his brother had sat at only a few days ago. The desk was still littered with personal items from his brother and Robert made a mental note to have them moved first thing tomorrow.
John McCormack looked up from the desk, smiled and gestured to one of the couches in the Oval Office as he got up and took a seat on a couch facing Robert.
After a moment John McCormack said, “It’s been a long day.” Robert replied, “And another one tomorrow,” hopefully conveying that he hoped this wouldn’t be a long meeting.
John nodded in understanding. “I won’t keep you long Bobby.” After a moment of trying to gather his thoughts, he continued.
“Bobby, I know this is kind of early as things go, but I want to ask you to stay on after all this is over. I need you. The country needs you,” said President McCormack.
“It was fully my intention to stay on as Attorney General if that’s what you’d want Mister President, at least until the investigation into my brother’s murder and Vice-President Johnson’s death is resolved,” replied Robert.
President McCormack shook his head. “I want you to stay on, but not as Attorney General. I’d like you to consider being my second, Vice President Kennedy.”
Robert’s eyes grew wide. After a moment to ensure he had heard correctly he said, “I beg your pardon?”
McCormack smiled, “I want you to be my vice-president. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the best person for the job.”
Before Robert could open his mouth John McCormack raised his hand. “Hear me out. The nation has just lost its president and vice-president in one day. Now it is dealing with having a person in charge who wasn’t elected to that office for the first time in its history. The country needs some stability. And the best way I can see to give them that stability is if a Kennedy is seen to be at the helm with an unknown like me. It will give a sense of continuity that the nation needs right about now.”
McCormack continued, “I know you’ve got a lot on your plate right now. I’m not asking for an immediate decision. I will tell you that as far as the investigations you’ll still for all intents and purposes oversee that. I’ll ensure whoever you choose as your replacement as attorney general understands that as far as the investigation of your brother and Johnson’s death you have the final say.
“And you won’t simply be a ceremonial figurehead as it were. I need you. You knew your brother’s mind better then anyone in this town. I need that if I am going to write a fitting legacy for him. You can help me and advise me in this. This nation deserves to have Jack Kennedy’s work finished with the help of someone who knew him best.”
“Also, there’s another matter.” And McCormack’s shoulders slumped as he continued. “I’ve already decided. I’ll finish out your brother’s term in office. But I won’t run in ’64. The political game is for younger men. And my health just won’t hold up to a long campaign season. As my Vice President you’ll get public exposure so that if you decide you want to run in ’64 or ’68 you’ll be able to. Honestly, I’m no fortune teller but if you decide not to run in ’64 and the party chooses someone like Humphrey, I don’t see him lasting more than one term.”
“So, there it is, Bobby, I need you and the country needs you as simple as that. What do you think?” John McCormack concluded smiling.
After several silent minutes Robert Kennedy replied. “This…this is a bit of a shock. And I’d like time to process this before I answer. Let’s get through the funerals and the next few weeks of transition. I promise I’ll give you my answer before Christmas.”
It had been a very long day. Supervising the transfer of his brother’s body to Washington, the autopsy, supervising the funeral arrangements. Robert F. Kennedy was tired. And yet he was now approaching the Oval Office. He had been told President McCormack wanted to see him.
Secret Service agents nodded him through the doors, and he saw John McCormack sitting at the desk his brother had sat at only a few days ago. The desk was still littered with personal items from his brother and Robert made a mental note to have them moved first thing tomorrow.
John McCormack looked up from the desk, smiled and gestured to one of the couches in the Oval Office as he got up and took a seat on a couch facing Robert.
After a moment John McCormack said, “It’s been a long day.” Robert replied, “And another one tomorrow,” hopefully conveying that he hoped this wouldn’t be a long meeting.
John nodded in understanding. “I won’t keep you long Bobby.” After a moment of trying to gather his thoughts, he continued.
“Bobby, I know this is kind of early as things go, but I want to ask you to stay on after all this is over. I need you. The country needs you,” said President McCormack.
“It was fully my intention to stay on as Attorney General if that’s what you’d want Mister President, at least until the investigation into my brother’s murder and Vice-President Johnson’s death is resolved,” replied Robert.
President McCormack shook his head. “I want you to stay on, but not as Attorney General. I’d like you to consider being my second, Vice President Kennedy.”
Robert’s eyes grew wide. After a moment to ensure he had heard correctly he said, “I beg your pardon?”
McCormack smiled, “I want you to be my vice-president. As far as I’m concerned, you’re the best person for the job.”
Before Robert could open his mouth John McCormack raised his hand. “Hear me out. The nation has just lost its president and vice-president in one day. Now it is dealing with having a person in charge who wasn’t elected to that office for the first time in its history. The country needs some stability. And the best way I can see to give them that stability is if a Kennedy is seen to be at the helm with an unknown like me. It will give a sense of continuity that the nation needs right about now.”
McCormack continued, “I know you’ve got a lot on your plate right now. I’m not asking for an immediate decision. I will tell you that as far as the investigations you’ll still for all intents and purposes oversee that. I’ll ensure whoever you choose as your replacement as attorney general understands that as far as the investigation of your brother and Johnson’s death you have the final say.
“And you won’t simply be a ceremonial figurehead as it were. I need you. You knew your brother’s mind better then anyone in this town. I need that if I am going to write a fitting legacy for him. You can help me and advise me in this. This nation deserves to have Jack Kennedy’s work finished with the help of someone who knew him best.”
“Also, there’s another matter.” And McCormack’s shoulders slumped as he continued. “I’ve already decided. I’ll finish out your brother’s term in office. But I won’t run in ’64. The political game is for younger men. And my health just won’t hold up to a long campaign season. As my Vice President you’ll get public exposure so that if you decide you want to run in ’64 or ’68 you’ll be able to. Honestly, I’m no fortune teller but if you decide not to run in ’64 and the party chooses someone like Humphrey, I don’t see him lasting more than one term.”
“So, there it is, Bobby, I need you and the country needs you as simple as that. What do you think?” John McCormack concluded smiling.
After several silent minutes Robert Kennedy replied. “This…this is a bit of a shock. And I’d like time to process this before I answer. Let’s get through the funerals and the next few weeks of transition. I promise I’ll give you my answer before Christmas.”
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The Amendment that allows a new VP to fill the previous VP vacancy while a term is still going was the 25th Amendment and that wasn’t passed until 1965 and it didn’t take full effect until 1967. It’s possible that McCormack could elevate RFK to a higher level in Cabinet but he wouldn’t be able to make him VP.
I think RFK is going to accept. The position of VP and then potentially President would give him more power in the investigation into his brother’s death. With McCormack not running again I think we are going to get someone other than Goldwater for the Republican nomination in ‘64, perhaps RFK’s brother’s old opponent from ‘60.
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Ramontxo
Donor
When was the amendment proposed? May its approbation be accelerated due to recent events in this TL?