Snake River Civilization Planning Thread

[Eparkhos]

This is part one of my outline, a brief summation of the period between the development of farming and the rise of city-states. Again, if you have any issues with it please let me know.

6000 BC - 1500 BC: The proto-Kxtana move into the Snake Valley, forming a rapidly separating sprachbund. Their lifestyle is orientated around the river and its salmon runs, although they also rely heavily on hunting and gathering in the lands beyond. Camas is harvested as in OTL, and by the end of this period it has become domesticated into a bi-annual form. As the Great Drought ends, the existing social structure and the subsequent rebound allow for a complete transition to subsistence agriculture.

1500 BC - 500 BC: The need for irrigation leads to the rise of the first governments in the western plains. Society is organized around religiously-connected clans, and is dominated by a semi-hereditary priestly class. Society is completely chalcolithic, but increasing domesticates allow for a diversification of agriculture and a cycle of population growth.

1500 BC - 250 BC: Meanwhile, farming spread in the Eastern Snake plains, distinguished from their western cousins by semi-democratic structures of governance, smaller settlements, different crops and different pottery and farming methods. Several smaller material cultures are subsumed within this period depending on the relationship between fishing and the different types of farming. They maintain a similar language to the Western plains, but with more Algic influences.

750 BC - 0 AD: Farming spreads to the Bear River Valley, and despite its isolated nature and difficult soil it takes pretty quickly. The locals practice a form of semi-sedentary agriculture focused around great annual hunting and foraging expeditions into the mountains during the summer, which leads to the rise of clan-based statelets amongst the fractured lands. They are Algic speakers.

 

[Arkenfolm]

No, from what I've read the Kutenai have lived in their home region since around 9,500 BC (if you believe the Goatfall hypothesis). However, the real PoD for this timeline is that culturally similar cousins of the Kutenai living on the Upper Snake get pushed southward through the Snake Gorge to the plains of the same name instead of being conquered and assimilated as in OTL. I'll elaborate about this in the section on the PoD, but it is somewhat major that the Algic-speakers no longer inhabit the western part of the valley.

That said, it's entirely possible a fourth branch of Algic might pop up on the fringe of the region. Maybe in the Bear River region?

I can see that. I guess the Kutenai were pushed south of Hell's Canyon in extremely early times?

To build on what Arkenfolm said:

The most widely-exported goods, the goods which would effectively become synonymous with the Snake in outsiders' eyes, will be obsidian and bison products. Obsidian will likely be the chief export, just because Idaho is practically lousy with it while there are only a handful of deposits on the Columbia Plateau, let alone in Cascadia itself, and before the advent of bronze it will be the most useful tool-making good. As Arkenfolm said, the Snake plain was also home to a sizable population of bison several times larger than the Columbia's. I'd imagine there would also be a good bit of gold and silver found in streams around the Sawtoothes as well, so a metalworking culture might arise that exports tools and jewellery. Salmon and trout might also be exported eastwards, and overall the region would be of great importance in trade between the Columbia Plateau and the Plains.

There's probably more I'm forgetting.

There are a lot of sources of obsidian far upstream of the Snake River Plain, mostly in the mountains immediately east of the Willamette Valley (i.e. dormant/extinct volcanoes) plus a few in OTL Washington which seemed to supply all the obsidian needed in the area in pre-contact times. In post-contact times (18th century onwards) they added sources more from isolated areas in Eastern Oregon and places in far northern California.

All the rest looks interesting though. What becomes of Wyam/Celilo Falls, given that was basically the largest trading center in Northwest?

 

[Eparkhos]

@Arkenfolm

I can see that. I guess the Kutenai were pushed south of Hell's Canyon in extremely early times?

Relatives of them in TTL. Mostly this so I can handwave any cultural or linguistic mistakes I make, but the Kutenai would have been too distant to realistically be forced south in such a manner IMO

There are a lot of sources of obsidian far upstream of the Snake River Plain, mostly in the mountains immediately east of the Willamette Valley (i.e. dormant/extinct volcanoes) plus a few in OTL Washington which seemed to supply all the obsidian needed in the area in pre-contact times. In post-contact times (18th century onwards) they added sources more from isolated areas in Eastern Oregon and places in far northern California.

My bad, CRF.

All the rest looks interesting though. What becomes of Wyam/Celilo Falls, given that was basically the largest trading center in Northwest?

Well, I'd imagine that it would still become a major population center, given that camas was already grown in the region and so would be in a good position to move with the increased population. As in your TL it would certainly become a major power, but I don't want to speculate beyond that out of fear of messing something up.

 

[Eparkhos]

Note: Local names for proper nouns will be added in later, this is just a rough outline.

City-states first develop as the population increase allows for the development of a non-farming class and the subsequent rise of urban centers. In the West, this occurs from around 600 BC to 250 BC.

The 1st Period of the First Men essentially consisted of jumped-up towns squabbling over water rights, arable land and other resources and trading routes. It lasted from about 500 BC to 200 BC.

The 2nd Period of the First Men was quite similar to the 1st period in terms of minor and ritual interstate conflict, but the increasing population size led to the rise of true cities for the first time, once again ruled by priest kings. The four largest cities are at Morton Island, Notus Ridge, Teage Island, and Walters Butte. It lasts from about 200 BC to 300 AD

The end of the Roman Warm Period leads to the collapse of the First Men, and into the void left by their collapse come a number of barbarians who establish dynastic rule over groups of towns and city-states. They take to internecine warfare as well, but a number of them refuse to adopt the religious practices of their subjects. This period lasts from about 300 to 539.

One of the few natives shaman-kings, let’s call him Long-Fanged Cougar, leads an army of fanatics to drive the heathen barbarians out of the western plains, forcing all of the cities to follow his particular set of beliefs at spear-point. However, his empire didn't last beyond his death in 565.

After the death of Long-Fanged Cougar, the Era of the Third Men begins. The Classical period of the Third Men, from 565 to 916, sees the development of complex calendars and religious cycles, the building of monoliths and a period of flowering on the western plains. The excess population creates a population density like never before, however, and this period sees near constant warfare.

A brief period of decline occurs in the 10th century as drought and famine sweep the western plains and the stability of the local societies likewise suffers. Several fringe cities are picked off by barbarians.

The western plains are unified by the prince of Warm Springs Mesa, Bent-Nosed Raven, in the name of Cougar’s faith, and in 962 he proclaims himself Prince of all the West, marking the West’s brief Imperial period. Bent-Nosed Raven passes out cities and feudatories to his relatives, and after his death his son does the same. By the death of his grandson in 1050, the Western Empire was a mess of warring dynasts and pseudo-states.

After the fall of the Western Empire, the Western Plains descended into a dark age, as frequent periods of drought prevent a unified order from emerging. Various city-states rise and fall, while barbarians and mercenaries carve out realms for themselves practically at random. The population falls continuously. By 1204, the region had been conquered by the Third Dynasty of the Eastern Empire.

Eastern rule brings a brief period of calm, and a brief stint of rebuilding occurs as the population rebounds. However, this calm is not to last, as the Numic-speakers have begun to expand out from the Owens Valley, picking up speed like an avalanche as they expand. In 1256, under the shadow of an eclipse, the Numa invaded the valley. The Imperials are driven out, sacrificing the west to save the east.

The western plains are split into a Numa-dominated state in the south and a locally-dominated state in the north, divided around Apple Valley. Previous trends of increasing centralization show themselves, and bureaucratic capitals in the lines of that of the east form at Buttermilk Slough in the north and Canyon Hill (Caldwell) in the south. The Numa continuously raid northwards, but are unable to make solid conquests and a stalemate ensues.

 

[Mechadogzilla]

Looks interesting so far, this is definitely up there as among the most unique PoDs on the site. Watched, looking forwards to more!

 

[Eparkhos]

I can see that. I guess the Kutenai were pushed south of Hell's Canyon in extremely early times?

There are a lot of sources of obsidian far upstream of the Snake River Plain, mostly in the mountains immediately east of the Willamette Valley (i.e. dormant/extinct volcanoes) plus a few in OTL Washington which seemed to supply all the obsidian needed in the area in pre-contact times. In post-contact times (18th century onwards) they added sources more from isolated areas in Eastern Oregon and places in far northern California.

All the rest looks interesting though. What becomes of Wyam/Celilo Falls, given that was basically the largest trading center in Northwest?

On a side note, do you have any information on the Athabaskan migrations? I haven't been able to nail down any concrete dates.

Looks interesting so far, this is definitely up there as among the most unique PoDs on the site. Watched, looking forwards to more!

Thanks. This isn't a real timeline yet, but I hope it will blossom into one once there's enough to give it its own thread.

 

[Eparkhos]

As before, proper nouns will be filled in later and this is still quite speculative.

City-states on the Eastern Plains

City-states come into being in the east in much the same way as they do in the west. It takes a longer time for them to emerge, however, from about 400 BC to 0 AD, because of the region’s larger size. Unlike the west, these city-states are led by councils elected by the people as well as shamans, preventing the emergence of priest-kings.

The 1st period of the Butte Men begins around 200 BC and lasts until 100 AD, as the number of towns large enough to support a state government grows. Like in the west, most of their conflicts revolve around petty disputes over water rights and fertile land on the periphery of various towns’ territories. This results in little political change over all.

The 2nd period of the Butte Men began around 100 and lasted until around 300, when it fell victim to the same climate change as the First Men did. As population sizes grew, cities and administrative cadres also grew, and the ability to enforce power over distances and many other things did as well. The four largest cities were located at American Falls, Pingree Butte, Basalt, and South Menan Butte, and for several generations they were able to pull the other cities into their orbits through a system of tributaries and warred for hegemony over the entire region.

With the end of the Roman Warm Period, the Butte Men collapsed. With fewer barbarians in the region there is no unifying factor, and multiple city-states rise and fall between 300 and 529, the Archaic Period. The old semi-democratic councils are mostly lost, being replaced by strongman princes and prince-shamans

 

[Eparkhos]

This is even sketchier than the other outlines, so any and all criticism is welcome. I'd rather have to rewrite now than when the timeline is halfway done. This might be rambling, but I was generally going for an 'Amerindian Egypt' vibe with this part, so I'd also like to hear what you think of that.

In 529, a man named Charging Bison was elected by the council of Eagle Rock as its king. Two eclipses, in 529 and 532, were taken as signs that he would conquer all the East, and conquer he did. By 549 he had unified all the east and proclaimed himself Emperor of the Eastern Valley. His descendants would rule a unified bureaucratic state covering the plains for centuries.

In 628, the First Dynasty went extinct and was succeeded by the Second Dynasty. They practiced an extensive series of religious rights including human sacrifice and bear-worship, crop rotation and a number of other technological innovations including copper and arsenical bronze. The Second Dynasty warred frequently with Shoshone Falls and even sacked it on occasion, but was never able to extend its power that far west.

A series of brutal winters and famines leads to the overthrow of the Second Dynasty in 785 and a period of civil war. In 812, the Third Dynasty rose to prominence under a former provincial governor. The following period of reform allows the Third Dynasty to emerge greater than either of its predecessors. At its height, the Third Dynasty extended from Nyssa to Jackson Hole and warred with the Bear People. However, it is not immune to nature, and under drought and barbarian invasion it collapsed in 1216.

After a brief civil war and conquest, a Numa calling himself Sword-Arm of the Sun God proclaims the Fourth Dynasty in 1221. Sword-Arm’s people take to the local religion well, and he uses this as a rallying point for resisting further waves of Numa coming out of the desert. The Fourth Dynasty controlled everything upstream from Shoshone Falls and parts of the Bear Valley as well, and did a good job keeping the Numa mostly out of the region. However, dynastic problems resulted in its extinction in 1364.

After a brief period of turmoil, a native general ascends and proclaims the Fifth Dynasty. The Fifth Dynasty ruled from 1364 to 1574, and it is generally a time of peace and prosperity as the Snake Valley from west of Shoshone Falls on upwards is unified under one banner, as well as sizable parts of the Bear Valley. Most of the eastern lands not under direct control are some form of tributary, and during this golden age the Fifth Dynasty is probably the most powerful state in the region.

Then Old World diseases hit in 1571. Within years, almost half of the empire is dead, including most of the remaining dynasty. Those who survive fight over who gets to be king of the ashes, and the Eastern Empire unceremoniously collapses into warlordism and anarchy. In 1594, the Sohana sacked Eagle Rock, marking the official end to the Eastern Empire.

 

[Eparkhos]

1. There was never an era of city-states in the Bear River valley. By the time the population density had risen enough to support major towns and cities, they were already connected by a network of kinship and tribute that resembled a tribal monarchy.
2. The Old Bear Culture existed from around 500 BC to around 50 AD, and saw the semi-sedentary farmers of the region transition fully into settled farmers, adopting many of the mannerisms of the Eastern Plains but retaining more of their own, their language and their traditional social structure. They were divided by the hills and mountains of their homeland, although the central plain was the seat of most tribes.
3. The Second Bear Culture existed from around 50 to 348. By this point, farming had spread from Bear Lake to the Wheelon Narrows and into the upper hills, and the population surplus led to the warring tribes growing in size, importance and number of settlements. Ritual warfare was endemic to the region by this point, and religion was centered on ritual combat and hunts.
4. The 4th century saw great famine in the Bear Valley, and many outlying tribes were forced outwards. The strongest surviving clan, the White Bears, established a unified monarchy over the middle valley. It was subject to frequent strife and civil wars because of its clan-based system of governance, but some branches of the White Bears managed to cling to the throne until 785, when they were toppled after an unusually harsh winter.
5. The White Bears were succeeded by the Half-Hand dynasty, which ruled from 791 to 911. After the initial unifying king, the ruling clan exercised very little real power, so much so that they were unable to keep their vassals from fighting amongst each other. The Third Dynasty smelled blood and invaded, toppling the Half-Hands and installing the Red Minks as vassals
6. The Red Minks, and later the Pinyon-Shaker dynasty, ruled over the Middle and late Upper Bear Valley as vassals of the Third Dynasty from 911 to 1199 with brief interruptions due to revolt. More intensive agriculture allows for a great deal of population expansion
7. As the Third Dynasty goes into a death spiral, the vassal lords of the Upper Bear Valley, the Marshmen, revolt and drive them from the Middle Valley. For a brief time they are independent, but the resurgence of the Fourth Dynasty forces them back into tributary status in 1241. In the following years, several dynasties came and went due to internal turmoil and Eastern intervention.
8. The Blue Goat dynasty was in power when the European diseases struck in the late 16th century. They are not as severely affected as the Easterners are, but they are unable to stem the rising tide of the Sohana and are swiftly conquered.

With the 'core' area outlined, I think I can move on to different areas of focus for tomorrow, probably developments on the Plateau and the fringes of the Snake-based civilization in the north and east.

 

[Leonidas]

This is a really interesting idea for a timeline! I'd be interested in seeing maps of these states as well.

 

[Glory2Cabinda]

I would imagine you would have a large community of sheep herders in between the cities. They would also most likely be a major source of bison products.

 

[Eparkhos]

This is a really interesting idea for a timeline! I'd be interested in seeing maps of these states as well.

Thank you! Maps will be somewhat difficult to make, as borders would be very fluid for most of the region's history, but I'll work on sketching out cultural spheres once I get to that point. Anything else you'd like to see?

I would imagine you would have a large community of sheep herders in between the cities. They would also most likely be a major source of bison products.

Oh definitely. The people of the Wisdom-Jefferson-Gallatin Valley region in particular will be so reliant upon the sheep that their endonym is literally 'Goat People'.

 

[Arkenfolm]

On a side note, do you have any information on the Athabaskan migrations? I haven't been able to nail down any concrete dates.

Thanks. This isn't a real timeline yet, but I hope it will blossom into one once there's enough to give it its own thread.

It seems it's related to the White River Ash, which came from the two large eruptions of Mount Churchill in southeastern Alaska, two of the three largest eruptions north of Mexico in the past few thousand years. The first eruption (2nd century) caused the Athabaskans to spread out over Alaska, British Columbia, and the Canadian territories, and the second eruption (early-mid 9th century) resulted in their expansion south. They took advantage of their own skills in alpine areas to move south along the Coast Mountains and Rocky Mountain foothills, and more importantly the warming climate during the Medieval Warm Period which let them thrive in underexploited lands. Athabaskan social structures aided in acquiring local knowledge and assimilating into local cultures. They arrived in Southern Oregon/Northern California around the 13th century and in the Southwest and Plains during the 15th century.

They would also most likely be a major source of bison products.

Bison would likely be extinct early on due to overhunting. Firearms and horses pushed the Idaho bison population over the edge in the 18th century IIRC so the local people had to cross to the Plains to hunt them.

 

[Eparkhos]

Here's a question about the timeline. Should I give a brief summation of the rise of agriculture before moving on to the history of the region's summations, or spend extensive time with agriculture before moving on to the city-states? I'm leaning towards the former myself, but would like to know what y'all think.

 

[Leonidas]

Thank you! Maps will be somewhat difficult to make, as borders would be very fluid for most of the region's history, but I'll work on sketching out cultural spheres once I get to that point. Anything else you'd like to see?

For me at least, it would be very helpful to see the locations of the largest cities and the directions of various migrations throughout the region.

Here's a question about the timeline. Should I give a brief summation of the rise of agriculture before moving on to the history of the region's summations, or spend extensive time with agriculture before moving on to the city-states? I'm leaning towards the former myself, but would like to know what y'all think.

If you've got a lot of agricultural info made up, I'd be happy to see it!

 

[Glory2Cabinda]

I don't have much time today, so these are the species of animals I think most likely to be domesticated in the Snake River region.

Lontra canadensis: American river otter. Far and away the easiest to domesticate. They have a complex existing social structure, rely on burrows of other species to whelp, have varied and easy to provide diets and reach maturity relatively quickly. Practically speaking, they could be used as fishing aides--water dogs?--as well as to find crawdads, frogs, salamanders and waterfowl.

Lepus californicus: Black-tailed jackrabbit. Plentiful to the region, it feeds on commonly available plants and so can fairly easily be kept in captivity. Willing to approach humans if need be, i.e. under drought conditions. Has fast reproduction rate and time, and can be easily bred for meat and fur.

Oreamnos americanus: Mountain goat. Most live at altitude, but could be captured at salt licks at lower elevations. Lives in herds with a semi-coherent social structure, so can be domesticated in that way. Valuable source of wool, meat and milk and can be fed on practically anything, so would quickly become a valuable source of food.

What about ducks?

 

[Eparkhos]

Is there any interest in me continuing this as a proper thread?

 

[Leonidas]

Is there any interest in me continuing this as a proper thread?

I’d read it!

 

[Contrary]

Is there any interest in me continuing this as a proper thread?

I'd be interested too.

 

[Mechadogzilla]

Is there any interest in me continuing this as a proper thread?

I thought it was neat, I'd read more of this.