They probably wouldn't be all from Panzer divisions, as the British would want a good spread of experience.
Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
Thats why you mix in officers from other branches and armed services as well as provide some fine beer and spirits.
Indeed. I wonder what the more historically-minded. squaddies would call it?
9th Panzers (Prince Albert’s Own) or “Queen Victoria’s Horse”, or “9th Hanoverians”. Possibly even 9th Panzer (Saxe-Coburg & Gotha)?
Ramp-Rat
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The formation of a German unit with salvaged equipment to act as a counter force in exercises is a good idea. And using intelligence gathered from captured enemy personnel, so that instead of using British tactics, it as far as is possible uses German tactics makes sense. And would much later be used by NATO on a larger scale especially the Americans, who had the money to throw at this project. Both on the ground and in the air, though not so much at sea, but had been tried to an extent during WWII, by the British, in training their convoy escort commanders at sea of Scotland. And Liverpool above the Western Approaches command bunker, where the WATU conducted extensive war games and training exercises, using extensive information gained by experience and intelligence of German U-Boat tactics in carrying out attacks on convoys. The British did have an excellent prisoner interrogation system, which thanks to a number of factors was far more effective than the Germans. It wasn’t until April 1941, when Franz von Werra, the only German prisoner know to have escaped British captivity and make a home run, arrived in Germany. Were as the British had from pre war taught their military personnel what to do if captured, from the very basic, name, rank and number, to as the war progressed especially for air crews and members of special forces, more extensive training in escape and evasion. The Germans however hadn’t conducted any training in how to deal with capture or interrogation techniques, and it was only after Werra got home that they started to seriously tighten up their training. The British had a number of interrogation centres, ranging from the luxury of Trent Park where signor German officers were incarcerated, while having their every conversation listen to via bug. The London Cage in oh so posh Kensington Palace Gardens, along with numerous other sites around the country. And while there is no doubt that sometimes harsh treatment was dished out especially to members of the SS, along with some very underhand methods, the British never went full Gestapo/KGB, and engaged in full scale unlimited torture. German prisoners could find themselves in a cell with someone who purported to be a fellow German, but was in fact British, and the cell would be fully wired for sound. Once the order is given to seek information about the tactics and methods of a German Panzer, the British intelligence services will be collating the wealth of information available to them, should within three months, be able to inform Horrocks all he needs to know to enable him to stand up a brigade size formation, with a mix of German and British equipment. Able to in an exercise to act as German armoured formation, for training purposes, and give British forces a much better idea of what they were going to be facing, and gaining better ideas themselves of how to establish British armoured formations. Remember if there was one thing that the British were good at was once they got their act together, was the intelligence game. There only major failing was in regards to Soviet penetration of the British establishment, where as there is no known case of the Germans having a single active spy in Britain. Note both the British and the Americans did have a number of high level informants inside the German establishment.
RR.
RR.
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Following the German organization, the 9th would have two tank regiments and two infantry brigades of two infantry battalions each.
The tank regiments would probably be from the 28th Armoured Brigade; let's say the 5th Royal Innskilling Dragoon Guards (the "Skins"; L. E. G. Oates was in its predecessor regiment the 6th Inniskiling Dragoons) and the 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars.
The infantry battalions would likely be the 8th Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps (formerly the Queen Victoria's Rifles, reformed after their destruction in Calais) from the 28th Armoured Brigade, the 11th Battalion the Worcestershire Regiment (the "Vein-Openers"; the 1st Battalion had done the Boston Massacre) from the Support Group and two of the battalions from the 7th Infantry Brigade, which had the 2nd Battalion, South Wales Borderers ("Zulu"), the 6th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment, and 2/6th Battalion, East Surrey Regiment.
The tank regiments would probably be from the 28th Armoured Brigade; let's say the 5th Royal Innskilling Dragoon Guards (the "Skins"; L. E. G. Oates was in its predecessor regiment the 6th Inniskiling Dragoons) and the 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars.
The infantry battalions would likely be the 8th Battalion, King's Royal Rifle Corps (formerly the Queen Victoria's Rifles, reformed after their destruction in Calais) from the 28th Armoured Brigade, the 11th Battalion the Worcestershire Regiment (the "Vein-Openers"; the 1st Battalion had done the Boston Massacre) from the Support Group and two of the battalions from the 7th Infantry Brigade, which had the 2nd Battalion, South Wales Borderers ("Zulu"), the 6th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment, and 2/6th Battalion, East Surrey Regiment.
I wonder if there is anyway it could be revealed ITTL? I admit its not likely but stranger things have happened.
the biggest change in the dutch colonies will be political.
1) they managed to fight off the japanese (with help, but they did), so far less loss of face/trust
2) no japanese occupation, so no chance for sukarno and his fellow collaborators to gain a foothold (physical & political), also no japanese to hand their weapons to local rebels after the armistice.
in the 30s some plans were floated that suggested independence for the dutch indies somewhere in in the 60s. but since it is politics, who knows where it goes.
one thing is sure, if independence comes for it, it will be very different (most likely java & sumatra each a independent state in that case, borneo, the smaller islands & dutch new guinea likely to stay dutch (comonwealth or province status)
As an ex Yeoperson of Prince Albert’s Own Yeomanry I think that strong words might be said.
Ramp-Rat
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Much as I would love for the security establishment to realise that the Soviets had placed a number of agents both in Britain and the security services. I believe that given the attitude of the time, along with the requirement that all operations against the Soviets were to be stopped, once they entered the war against the Germans. And the constant attitude of he can’t be working for the Soviets, after all he went to school and then Uni, where he got a brilliant first in classics, along with a blue in cricket. Good god man he’s one of us, how can you question his loyalty, now go away and do something useful, find me some Nazis. Remember just the introduction of positive vetting, would have exposed Philby, who not only married a communist and went to Vienna to support the cause, but on becoming a journalist joined the Anglo German society. With that sort of record any modern security agency wouldn’t let him over the threshold. Sadly it just not going to happen, and it will not be until long after the war, that he various security agencies, will begin to get a grip and start detecting potential infiltrators.
RR.
With the way his farther was bought by US oil companies sort of suprised Philby was never viewed with suspiciously.
Actually aren't there some parts around there where you'd need at least a Panther to feel safe on a Friday night?