Screw the british empire as much possible during the 20th century

[Gukpard]

With a PoD on january 1st of 1900 you have 100 years to make the 20th century as a british Nackba. What happens it is up to you, as long it is not ASB. The motivation I had for this is that we have many France screws (the basic formula is Germany wins WWII and a alternate WWII turning france into a vassal), we got Germany screws (Worse german defeat in WWII, sometimes there is not even a germany after WWII, or operation vegetarian, nuclear bombing, etc), Russia screws (succesfull generalplan ost, nuclear bombing of Russia, russia loses the cold war badly, etc), but Britain is left either on the winning side, or it is not affected so much for it's defeats, at least on the same level as other screw scenarios.

Begin

 

[naraic]

Well the empire was heavilly screwed in our time line. They entered the 20th century considered the greatest power in the world. They fought ww1 and carried the can for almost everyone's debts. They limped through the 20s and 30s before being faced by ww2 where the idea that Britain was a great power was put to rest. Decolonisation happened and Britain went from a mighty empire to an island kingdom.

Yeah there's a few other things you can do but history was pretty much an Britain screw.

If we had a forum like this in 1900 and otl was written it would be considered an asb Britain screw.

 

[calvinhobbesliker]

OTL after WW1 was somewhat already a Britscrew, though I guess being annexed by the Nazis would have been worse.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

Well the empire was heavilly screwed in our time line. They entered the 20th century considered the greatest power in the world. They fought ww1 and carried the can for almost everyone's debts. They limped through the 20s and 30s before being faced by ww2 where the idea that Britain was a great power was put to rest. Decolonisation happened and Britain went from a mighty empire to an island kingdom.

Yeah there's a few other things you can do but history was pretty much an Britain screw.

If we had a forum like this in 1900 and otl was written it would be considered an asb Britain screw.

Don't forget the collapse of manufacturing industry and the strikes and riots of the 1970's and 1980's.
Or the way that the UK gets blamed for both decolonising too fast and too slow, in the financially bankrupt afterglow of WW2.

 

[iVC]

If you want the streak of bad luck for the Britons here it is:
-- severely prolong the Second Boer War and add a couple of massacres by British Army followed by Arthur Balfour government fall
-- spark the entire British-Russian war out of Dogger-Bank incident and make the Entente break apart
-- add another two battles of Somme and another three of Pashendale and another five of somebody like Douglas Heig in command (more and more of no confidence among the riflemen and seamen)
-- let the blood flow the streets of Irish cities during the Easter Uprising
-- WWI ends in bloodshed stalemate and as white peace, but Tzar and Kazer still loses their crowns
-- make Indian National Congress closely co-op with the Russian Reds in matters of propaganda, arms transporting, strikes etc
-- 1926 United Kingdom general strike goes red-hot and conscripts are forced to gun down the workers (and another government crisis)
-- Egyptian revolution of 1919 violently ousts the British control out of country
-- Edward VIII crisis shakes nation once again along with more spectacular humiliations from the Nazis in Czechoslovakia
-- Agricultural planning and rationing does not work out well for the UK during the initial phase of WW2 because of corrupt practices of the rotten elites, U-boats are able to severe food links completely and severe famine is inavoidable

Voila. Now you are looking upon the hollow corpse of the former British Empire.

 

[ShortsBelfast]

The trouble with that is:-
(i) by the beginning of the twentieth century, most of the Empire is starting to become an economic burden, a liability rather than an asset. Most of Africa never was anything else (South Africa, Ghana, Rhodesia and Nigeria being exceptions), Canada, Australia and New Zealand are moving towards independence, Ireland is a net economic burden by 1900 and India will move from asset to liability by 1934. So loss of Empire isn't necessarily that much of a screw; and
(ii) Britain is geographically isolated from the European continent so any British regime would have to be almost unbelievably incompetent and complacent for Germany, France,the Russian Empire/USSR or USA to realistically invade and subjugate. A disadvantageous peace treaty is probably the limit that another power can impose.

 

[BlondieBC]

Begin

We started with a pretty good Britscrew, but we can always do better. POD: Germans don't resume USW so the USA never enters the war.

• The White Russian government reads the tea leaves better and takes the generous OTL terms with a bit of negotiation. The Congress of Poland becomes Poland. Finland becomes independent.
• The UK runs out of money for USA purchases in early 1917.
• German knocks France out of the war in 1917.
• A-H and Germany offer status quo antebellum to the Italians. The Italians leave the war.
• France makes peace. UK evacuates in good order from France.
• Germany is a bit drunk with power. Germany got no land gains from the east, so it is looking for ego satisfying concessions. The UK looks to the Napoleonic war, and decides to continue the blockade.
• Germany lacks the navy to take it to the UK. Germany starts improving the rail links to the Ottomans. Also Black Sea shipping routes are open. The Germans continue the one location they can by sending an army or two to the Ottomans. British gain in this theater are reversed.
• Both sides stay stubborn, but have to make peace. Brits don't offer enough colonies back, so the Germans stay on the Belgium coast. Antwerp becomes a major German naval base. Germans keep Calais too.

We now have a France that will not rise. We have the "Berlin to Baghdad" Alliance. Russia sees an alliance more powerful than Russia. Germany is focused on its rival, the UK. Overtime Russia turns its attention back to Asia (South and East). Japan and UK relations are never fixed, like OTL. Then there is a second, briefer WW2. It is really an alliance of neutral nations. It can start over whatever you like. The Russians are seeking gains in Central/South Asia. Say towards eastern Persia or India. Japan is seeking control of China. Germany is looking to break the back of its enemy. USA is neutral.

or you can read this. Some of us do screw the Brits.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/prince-henry-of-prussia-the-rise-of-u-boat.225455/

 

[Gukpard]

Well, I like the comments so far, but it seems that I didn't expressed myself well or you didn't understand quite right what I said (maybe both). With "British empire" I mean the United Kingdom and the commonwealth, not the colonial empire.

 

[BellaGerant]

Well, I like the comments so far, but it seems that I didn't expressed myself well or you didn't understand quite right what I said (maybe both). With "British empire" I mean the United Kingdom and the commonwealth, not the colonial empire.

What, like losing Northern Ireland to Ireland, Scotland seceding off, the entire royal family dying off (or everyone but Charles dying off), losing the Falklands to Argentina, that sort?

 

[Gukpard]

What, like losing Northern Ireland to Ireland, Scotland seceding off, the entire royal family dying off (or everyone but Charles dying off), losing the Falklands to Argentina, that sort?

This is valid, but I was thinking something close to what happened to Germany or Japan in 1945.

 

[AnonymousSauce]

This is valid, but I was thinking something close to what happened to Germany or Japan in 1945.

Nazi high command somehow talks Hitler out of Barbarossa before Britain is brought to heel, Germany somehow develops a bomb, Hitler accomplishes with atomic fire what he otherwise could not with dubious marine mammals?

 

[Gukpard]

Nazi high command somehow talks Hitler out of Barbarossa before Britain is brought to heel, Germany somehow develops a bomb, Hitler accomplishes with atomic fire what he otherwise could not with dubious marine mammals?

It is ASB for Germany to build nukes before the allies....isn't?

 

[naraic]

It is ASB for Germany to build nukes before the allies....isn't?

Pretty much unless there is a pod way before the war.

Honestly Britain and it's empire had things as badly as could be hoped for without ww3 breaking out and destroying civilisation.

 

[Gukpard]

Pretty much unless there is a pod way before the war.

Honestly Britain and it's empire had things as badly as could be hoped for without ww3 breaking out and destroying civilisation.

What about this:

For some reason germany wins the 1918 spring offensive, France pulls out of the war and Germany signs white peace with UK, while the whites wins the russian civil war. This leads to a KaiserReich like situation, but without left wing revolutions everywhere. There is no great depression for some reason too. Then on the 1930s the British create a new entente to curbe german influence, but this is a simple defensive alliance between Russia, France, Spain, persia and Uk. There is a unspeciefied event that results on a war between those blocs, and TTL German bloc defeats both russia (with japanese help) and France, and thus there is some analogue to the battle of Britain, but it is so clear that Britain will lose that the US refuses to send a land lease, instead only sells equipment to the UK for full price, at the same time that britain get's attacked day and night by mainland europe, until they are forced to surrender, the UK break up and accept german princes to take the individual kingdoms of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

 

[iVC]

the UK break up and accept german princes to take the individual kingdoms of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

This is not screwed enough.
German princes may appear and leave, they may even start a new dynasty (heck, William the Conqueror was this sort of man). In terms of military defeat it would be enough to just drop the soviet nuclear payload. But this is too simple.

But without slow trade and industry depression, constant international humiliation, persistent internal power struggle, trademark riots, famines and epidemics, regular government collapses, PR and diplomatic disasters along with a great toll of hate from the ex-massacred colonies... That just not enough screwed.

 

[BigDestiny]

If you want the streak of bad luck for the Britons here it is:
-- severely prolong the Second Boer War and add a couple of massacres by British Army followed by Arthur Balfour government fall
-- spark the entire British-Russian war out of Dogger-Bank incident and make the Entente break apart
-- add another two battles of Somme and another three of Pashendale and another five of somebody like Douglas Heig in command (more and more of no confidence among the riflemen and seamen)
-- let the blood flow the streets of Irish cities during the Easter Uprising
-- WWI ends in bloodshed stalemate and as white peace, but Tzar and Kazer still loses their crowns
-- make Indian National Congress closely co-op with the Russian Reds in matters of propaganda, arms transporting, strikes etc
-- 1926 United Kingdom general strike goes red-hot and conscripts are forced to gun down the workers (and another government crisis)
-- Egyptian revolution of 1919 violently ousts the British control out of country
-- Edward VIII crisis shakes nation once again along with more spectacular humiliations from the Nazis in Czechoslovakia
-- Agricultural planning and rationing does not work out well for the UK during the initial phase of WW2 because of corrupt practices of the rotten elites, U-boats are able to severe food links completely and severe famine is inavoidable

Voila. Now you are looking upon the hollow corpse of the former British Empire.

If the Entente breaks up, will Britain even fight WWI? George V had decent relations with the Kaiser, Britain's Belgian ultimatum could easily take the form of "You scratch our back, we'll scratch yours."

 

[iVC]

will Britain even fight WWI?

They need to stop Hochseeflotte from its rapid expansion, I suppose. Ergo they must fought the Kaizer sooner than later.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

This is valid, but I was thinking something close to what happened to Germany or Japan in 1945.

(Further edited)
No, the latter stages of the 1940's were not kind to Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany, but by 2017, compare the global respect and economic power they command with that of OTL UK...

 

[naraic]

They need to stop Hochseeflotte from its rapid expansion, I suppose. Ergo they must fought the Kaizer sooner than later.

Historically the HSF had fallen behind the British by the time of ww1 especially when you look at whats was building in 1914.

 

[Gukpard]

This is not screwed enough.
German princes may appear and leave, they may even start a new dynasty (heck, William the Conqueror was this sort of man). In terms of military defeat it would be enough to just drop the soviet nuclear payload. But this is too simple.

After the british surrender, they are occupied for seven years in which most of their military ports are converted for fishing, at the same time most of the british corporations and ehavy industries are given to Germany junkers. After the german princes take over there is a constant state of unrest for the decades to come.