If Nixon's still in, I'm still in. I only RTB if both of them die. Besides, I can always invest in the next generation of Kennedy presidentiables. We might yet see a Robert Kennedy in the White House. 
Say What?!: A President Barry Goldwater Timeline
- Thread starter Han
- Start date
Thanks Historico. I tried to get a Corbis account but it asked for my phone number, which I didn't want to give.
It's Reaganesque (when Reagan was Governor). He signed the Therapeutic Abortion Bill (with less apprehension), has cut spending, and has raised taxes to help eliminate the deficit. With Goldwater as President, Nixon realizes that he has to turn hard right in order to be nationally accepted by the nation and the Republican Party, so expect Nixon's Governorship to become more conservative. Oh, and he's been harsh on hippies. There's more of Nixon's term to come, so don't worry, you'll be seeing more of him.
One big thing that separates Nixon's governorship from Reagan's is that Governor Nixon is committing Watergate-like crimes. He's paid burglars to wiretap Speaker of the California State Assembly Jesse Unruh's house and the California Democratic Party Headquarters. He's spying on his enemies. As of 1968, Nixon has not been caught.
On Reagan's film career: How about the part played by Robert Ryan in The Wild Bunch? And/or the Gregory Peck part in Marooned for 1969?
For Nixon; I think he would want to do what OTL Nixon did in the 1960's, quietly build his brand in the GOP by helping as many Republican candidates as possible get elected to Congress and in State governments.
Great work Han! Love this TL! I can even live with RFK's death; sort of...
For Nixon; I think he would want to do what OTL Nixon did in the 1960's, quietly build his brand in the GOP by helping as many Republican candidates as possible get elected to Congress and in State governments.
Great work Han! Love this TL! I can even live with RFK's death; sort of...
bguy
Donor
Oh, and thanks for the replies guys!
Any more questions, suggestions, or thoughts?
How did Goldwater run such an effective campaign this time, without any of the self-inflicted errors of his OTL run?
And what exactly does "military victory" in Vietnam mean? Is he talking about invading North Vietnam?
Also did Goldwater end up supporting the Voting Rights Act in '65? I think he would vote for it and that probably would help take a lot of the extremist stigma off of him that he (unfairly) earned for his vote against the Civil Rights Act, but wouldn't a vote for the Voting Rights Act make a Wallace 3rd party run fairly likely in '68?
And very interesting timeline so far. Looking forward to seeing President Goldwater in action.
Thank you!
1. The Republicans are more united in 1968 than they were in 1964, because they have much more beef against the Democrats and the status quo now. Goldwater's pick of Margaret Chase Smith also convinces moderate Rockefeller Republicans to stay on board (much more so than his pick of William Miller did OTL). Some Rockefeller Republicans do choose to stay home or vote for Humphrey, but this lack of votes is made up for by disgruntled blue collar Democrats and the South. Also, Goldwater's conservative message is resonates a lot more with America during 1968's climate than it did 1964.
2. Well, you'll find out what Barry actually means by military victory in Vietnam when his Presidency starts.
LOL Barry's been kind of vague about actual strategies on the campaign trail (similar to the way Nixon was vague about the term "Peace With Honor"), but what he's said on the campaign trail can be summed up like this: "We're at a war with Vietnam, whether we should have been in it or not. In so far that we've already made a military commitment, we're going to win this war, so that our soldier's lives will not be wasted in vain." Hippies hate Goldwater's rhetoric, but the silent majority likes it. 3. Goldwater did not vote for the Voting Rights Act of 1965 because he believes that it infringes upon states rights (therefore unconstitutional), it could lead to racial gerrymandering, and because he believes it expands the reach of the government in people's lives (as it could force every man to consult the judiciary before moving his polling place). That being said, he thought the intentions were noble and did not vote nay out of racism.
On Reagan's film career: How about the part played by Robert Ryan in The Wild Bunch? And/or the Gregory Peck part in Marooned for 1969?
For Nixon; I think he would want to do what OTL Nixon did in the 1960's, quietly build his brand in the GOP by helping as many Republican candidates as possible get elected to Congress and in State governments.
Great work Han! Love this TL! I can even live with RFK's death; sort of...
Thank you! I'll consider the Reagan films (though he might not be able to act in any more 1969 films, as he is already acting in True Grit, but we'll see). Nixon is doing a lot of campaigning for candidates, and was a crucial part in bringing California towards the Goldwater column (Goldwater could've carried it without Nixon, but it'd be a hella lot closer).
That's because Barry was a classical liberal- a social liberal as well. He argued that gays should serve openly in the military, arguing that "everyone knows homosexuals have served in militaries honorably since at least the time of Julius Caesar... it doesn't matter whether a man is straight, so long as he can shoot straight."
On Pat Robertson: "every good Christian should kick Robertson right in the ass."
On Religious Right: "... don't associate my name with anything you do, you are extremists who have hurt us far more than the Democrats have."
"They are taking the Republican Party and trying to make a religious organization out of it."
On Pat Robertson: "every good Christian should kick Robertson right in the ass."
On Religious Right: "... don't associate my name with anything you do, you are extremists who have hurt us far more than the Democrats have."
"They are taking the Republican Party and trying to make a religious organization out of it."
Yeah, Goldwater was a libertarian, but what separates him from guys like Ron Paul is his Reaganesque hawkishness. Ron Paul and Barry Goldwater often get mushed in the same group, but they really belong in separate groups (but the two certainly share the same philosophy on economics- though Ron Paul probably takes it further).
Yeah, that's where Barry becomes different from Paul. Also- Goldwater's neoliberal economic agenda should be interesting to see in action. If nothing else, to see the Dems react when legislation is introduced to privatize the TVA.
bguy
Donor
I agree that Goldwater probably could win in '68 because of the factors you've listed (especially with the Democrats being in such disarray). Still Barry Goldwater being Barry Goldwater, there are bound to be some moments of him talking to farmers about phasing out farm price supports and discussing getting rid of the TVA in Tennessee, so I think the results would probably be closer.
Hmmm, Goldwater supported both the 1957 and 1960 Civil Rights Acts, and his objections to the 1964 Act were for the restrictions it placed on private individuals in Title II and Title VII. He was ok with the provisions that prevented state and local governments from discriminating and would have voted for the act if it had just been directed at governmental discrimination. As such I can't really see Goldwater opposing voting rights legislation since it would only restrict government action and wouldn't infringe on individual liberties. (Especially since there is no constitutional issue with voting rights legislation as it is clearly provided for in the 15th Amendment.)
I am kind of inclined that Ronnie will find a home on Television by the end of the decade, as the nation soured economically and the culture started to reflect, Film became a lot darker by the 1970's and Ronnie was never a big Fan of playing the Villian role IOTL, or even be comfortable playing a Disco-era Antihero as well.
As for the Goldwater Adminstration, I agree with RB that we should see some interesting things economic policy wise. Will Barry bring on Milton Friedman in some capacity in the cabinent to try to rollback decades of Federal Institutions and maybe get the negative income tax passed in order to reform Welfare? Which could have some very interesting economic butterfly effects down the road.
As for the Goldwater Adminstration, I agree with RB that we should see some interesting things economic policy wise. Will Barry bring on Milton Friedman in some capacity in the cabinent to try to rollback decades of Federal Institutions and maybe get the negative income tax passed in order to reform Welfare? Which could have some very interesting economic butterfly effects down the road.
Welfare: Why not just use Clinton's PWROR, which does the job very well and would be endorsed by enough Democrats to assure passage?
Economy: either a negative income tax, or enact a VAT at say, 10%, and use the revenue from it to engineer a massive reversal from direct to indirect taxation as Thatcher did in the 1980s IOTL. Then you can cut income tax but hike VAT to recoup lost revenue. Goldwater's Democratic successor might make it graduated, but the basic idea is still there.
Economy: either a negative income tax, or enact a VAT at say, 10%, and use the revenue from it to engineer a massive reversal from direct to indirect taxation as Thatcher did in the 1980s IOTL. Then you can cut income tax but hike VAT to recoup lost revenue. Goldwater's Democratic successor might make it graduated, but the basic idea is still there.
Yeah. Well, Ronnie didn't reject his villain role in True Grit because he didn't want to pass up the chance to be on the same screen with John Wayne, and he just wants to further his career at this point in time. After True Grit though, him joining a TV series is a definite possibility.
Yeah, Milton's joining Barry's cabinet, and will give important advice. As for specific policy proposals, I want to fully read Conscience of a Conservative to see if it will shed any insight on Barry's Presidency and his specific policies. (I was able to take a glance, but not a big enough glance
). NIT and welfare reform though, are certainly big options (and thanks to you and RogueBeaver for giving those suggestions, I really appreciate it! ). His most important objective though, probably has to be the War in Vietnam, so he may even push for a tax increase to pay for the costs.