Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears

[LouisTheGreyFox]

I think you messed up a sentence there.

Well RIP Ron Jeremy, he probably in prison right now for being in the porn industry. Unless he escaped to California when it seceded or went to Canada then he pretty much is in prison right now.

Speaking of which as odd as a question this is...

What exactly is the current status of the American porn industry right now in the TL? I myself assume that most pornstars and people in the porn industry either relocated and fled to California when it seceded or they left for places like Canada, Australia, or Britain. It be funny to see Canada get a major porn industry due to American expats.

 

[LouisTheGreyFox]

People TTL might comment on the power of pseudo-historical nationalist myths built on blame and scapegoating. These myths helped bring about the madness of Nazism and Lesser Maoism. But not even the United States, a nation founded on the principles of the Enlightenment and reason, was immune to toxic messages. The toxicity was powerful enough to destroy the most powerful nation on Earth.

Most historians would probably see the United States as an "experiment" made by the founding fathers (Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc.) that ended up failing due to mobocracy. Being the same exact thing Loyalists in the Revolutionary War were afraid of, it eventually happened anyway due to polarization of politics and radicalism everywhere there it just ultimately led to the "American experiment" failing in the end. I mean once leaders end up disregarding the rules set in place by the founding fathers, basically put the nation is set to fall.

 

[Bookmark1995]

Well RIP Ron Jeremy, he probably in prison right now for being in the porn industry. Unless he escaped to California when it seceded or went to Canada then he pretty much is in prison right now.

Speaking of which as odd as a question this is...

What exactly is the current status of the American porn industry right now in the TL? I myself assume that most pornstars and people in the porn industry either relocated and fled to California when it seceded or they left for places like Canada, Australia, or Britain. It be funny to see Canada get a major porn industry due to American expats.

Well...

Larry Flynt was outright assassinated.

Bob Guccione, the guy who published Penthouse, was given a lengthy prison sentence. Not just for publishing Penthouse, but because his work was considered a "national security" violation.

Given the greater prevalence of STDs, the lack of worker's protections, religious oppression, and extreme violence, the life of a pornstar TTL is not very fun.

Most historians would probably see the United States as an "experiment" made by the founding fathers (Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc.) that ended up failing due to mobocracy. Being the same exact thing Loyalists in the Revolutionary War were afraid of, it eventually happened anyway due to polarization of politics and radicalism everywhere there it just ultimately led to the "American experiment" failing in the end. I mean once leaders end up disregarding the rules set in place by the founding fathers, basically put the nation is set to fall.

I don't know if TTL historians will regard the failure of the United States as an "experiment gone wrong." Although the idea of "Americans running back to John Bull" (with many Americans fleeing to Britain and Britain helping the anti-CV government) might be a common saying, many other democratic nations, including ones with American style constitutions, have thrived both OTL and TTL. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland are other nations that broke away from the British crown and did well.

There are going to be a lot of things people will say about the collapse of the United States.

People might say that America was a nation that just lost its way.

Politicians that were supposed to defend the Constitution came to treat their offices as a prize to be won and not as a civic duty. A court system that was supposed to be impartial willfully refused to investigate potential electoral fraud. The cause of "spreading freedom" degenerated into a twisted form of imperialism. The one noble ideals of religion corrupted by the blind pursuit of power.

People might say that the end of the United States was structural.

The 18th century Constitution, they say, just wasn't fit for the world of the late 20th century. Had the electoral system been fixed in the 1970s, Rumsfeld would never have gotten a second term, and the CVs might not have been able to get into office.


People might say that America was just a deeply broken nation from the start.

The American people, they say, believed themselves to be free. Yet they held on to some really twisted beliefs like segregation, religious and racial intolerance, and severe historical ignorance. The use of myth and dog-whistle racism aided the rise of undemocratic forces in a supposedly free nation.

 

[LouisTheGreyFox]

The American people, they say, believed themselves to be free. Yet they held on to some really twisted beliefs like segregation, religious and racial intolerance, and severe historical ignorance. The use of myth and dog-whistle racism aided the rise of undemocratic forces in a supposedly free nation.

Honestly I would think modern historians would end up calling the "so called land of the free" something as the American Paradox seeing how yet America always stated it was a land of equality and opportunity it really never was. I mean when the US was a newly independent nation only people would could vote at first were WASP's who owned land. Anyone else basically couldn't vote. So that said I can see this as a paradox seeing how yet it said in the Bill of Rights "all men are created equal" it really meant "all certain men are created equal".

 

[Bookmark1995]

Honestly I would think modern historians would end up calling the "so called land of the free" something as the American Paradox seeing how yet America always stated it was a land of equality and opportunity it really never was. I mean when the US was a newly independent nation only people would could vote at first were WASP's who owned land. Anyone else basically couldn't vote. So that said I can see this as a paradox seeing how yet it said in the Bill of Rights "all men are created equal" it really meant "all certain men are created equal".

First of all, the restriction of voting rights to property owners in the early years isn't unique to the United States. Democracy and voting rights have been, more often than not, a work in progress for every nation. I mean, Turkey achieved woman's suffrage before France and Switzerland, two nations with even longer histories of democracy.

What I'm specifically referring to is how throughout America's history, racists, homophobes, bigots, misogynists, capitalist exploiters, religious fanatics, and xenophobes have managed to hold positions of power and impose their undemocratic beliefs onto the nation, and yet believe themselves to be promoting "freedom".

In the Decade of Tears, these toxic individuals have not only managed to send America backwards, but plunge it into a genocidal madness.

 

[LouisTheGreyFox]

First of all, the restriction of voting rights to property owners in the early years isn't unique to the United States. Democracy and voting rights have been, more often than not, a work in progress for every nation. I mean, Turkey achieved woman's suffrage before France and Switzerland, two nations with even longer histories of democracy.

What I'm specifically referring to is how throughout America's history, racists, homophobes, bigots, misogynists, capitalist exploiters, religious fanatics, and xenophobes have managed to hold positions of power and impose their undemocratic beliefs onto the nation, and yet believe themselves to be promoting "freedom".

In the Decade of Tears, these toxic individuals have not only managed to send America backwards, but plunge it into a genocidal madness.

Guess then it would just be called American Freedom Paradox

 

[Bookmark1995]

Guess then it would just be called American Freedom Paradox

"How can the people who claimed to love liberty so easily dump their fellow citizen into a mass grave without a word", will be the question many will be asking for centuries to come.

But the simple answer is that Americans were not immune to the same corrupt tactics any authoritarian or totalitarian force can use.

 

[Anarcho-Occultist]

"How can the people who claimed to love liberty so easily dump their fellow citizen into a mass grave without a word", will be the question many will be asking for centuries to come.

But the simple answer is that Americans were not immune to the same corrupt tactics any authoritarian or totalitarian force can use.

I assume the Sinclair Lewis quote “When fascism comes to America it’ll come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross” will get a LOT of attention as the most prescient and concise summary of how America ended up where it got.

 

[Saint_007]

I assume the Sinclair Lewis quote “When fascism comes to America it’ll come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross” will get a LOT of attention as the most prescient and concise summary of how America ended up where it got.

Pretty much this. Everyone thinks of Fascism as the Italo-German model, or the Japanese model. But it always comes to a people in a form they find familiar and comforting, and the basics differ from state to state. For the Germans and Italians, it was a promise of return to greatness and a promise of an empire denied them, as they were still seething over being left out of the colonialist dream. For the non-colonialist USA, it's a return to familiar, comfortable times and a time when things made sense.

So a few questions about the world as it is right now:
1) What's the situation in South/Central America and South Africa? How are the American-aligned dictatorships holding out? With the US effectively shutting off aid, I can't see their economies as remotely being in a good place.
2) Did Argentina try anything with the Falklands? IOTL, the Argentine invasion was done as an attempt to divert attention from the waning economy and poor morale, and ended up burying the juntas for good.
3) What's Israel up to? Out of all America's remaining 'allies', they're the ones most likely to still receive checks even as the American economy freefalls, but I doubt that will last. I'd imagine the Arab 'model communities' suffer from overpopulation, lack of medicine and supplies, and generally being walled off and forgotten. I suspect that there'd also be a suspicious small amount of paperwork pertaining to it, mostly to avoid exposing the true breadth of the tragedy. However, I don't see Israel as being able to keep up operations in Arabia.
4) What's the situation in India?
5) What is Japan currently doing, aside from making sure the Koreans and Chinese are tied up in the ruins of the former PRC.
6) There was a post (don't remember which one) regarding an outbreak in the USSR that seemed to be resistant to medication and was similar to the AIDS pandemic of the 80s. What's happened with that, and what about the Marburg virus China was working on?

 

[Bookmark1995]

I assume the Sinclair Lewis quote “When fascism comes to America it’ll come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross” will get a LOT of attention as the most prescient and concise summary of how America ended up where it got.

There is one person who will definitely be vindicated: J. William Fulbright.

Fulbright OTL wrote about how the Vietnam War was a moral poison that would destroy the US. I can imagine he won't appreciate the fact that he was proven right.

His quotes could easily describe the Decade of Tears:

The Soviet Union has indeed been our greatest menace — not so much because of what it has done, but because of the excuses it has provided us for our own failures.

In these ways the war in Vietnam is poisoning and brutalizing our domestic life. Psychological incompatibility has proven to be more controlling than financial feasibility, and the Great Society has become a sick society.

The price of empire is America's soul, and that price is too high.

Power confuses itself with virtue and tends also to take itself for omnipotence.

A pre-emptive war in 'defense' of freedom would surely destroy freedom, because one simply cannot engage in barbarous action without becoming a barbarian, because one cannot defend human values by calculated and unprovoked violence without doing mortal damage to the values one is trying to defend.

Pretty much this. Everyone thinks of Fascism as the Italo-German model, or the Japanese model. But it always comes to a people in a form they find familiar and comforting, and the basics differ from state to state. For the Germans and Italians, it was a promise of return to greatness and a promise of an empire denied them, as they were still seething over being left out of the colonialist dream. For the non-colonialist USA, it's a return to familiar, comfortable times and a time when things made sense.

It is disturbing how Rumsfeld used an invented memory of the founding fathers to build a political system that the founding fathers would've been appalled.

Again, it will be said that Americans fell victim to the same weaknesses that Germans did: things got desperate, so people looked the past, and allowed themselves to be taken in by political charlatans.

So a few questions about the world as it is right now:
1) What's the situation in South/Central America and South Africa? How are the American-aligned dictatorships holding out? With the US effectively shutting off aid, I can't see their economies as remotely being in a good place.
2) Did Argentina try anything with the Falklands? IOTL, the Argentine invasion was done as an attempt to divert attention from the waning economy and poor morale, and ended up burying the juntas for good.
3) What's Israel up to? Out of all America's remaining 'allies', they're the ones most likely to still receive checks even as the American economy freefalls, but I doubt that will last. I'd imagine the Arab 'model communities' suffer from overpopulation, lack of medicine and supplies, and generally being walled off and forgotten. I suspect that there'd also be a suspicious small amount of paperwork pertaining to it, mostly to avoid exposing the true breadth of the tragedy. However, I don't see Israel as being able to keep up operations in Arabia.
4) What's the situation in India?
5) What is Japan currently doing, aside from making sure the Koreans and Chinese are tied up in the ruins of the former PRC.
6) There was a post (don't remember which one) regarding an outbreak in the USSR that seemed to be resistant to medication and was similar to the AIDS pandemic of the 80s. What's happened with that, and what about the Marburg virus China was working on?

1) Brazil is balkanizing, with Mato Grosso being ruled by Cuerdans, and the Amazon being ruled by Lula Da Silva.

2) Argentina is weakened by military intrigues on one side and the Cuerdans on the other. Argentina went back to civilian government, and that government sent squatters instead of soldiers to reclaim the Falklands.

4) India is also Balkanizing and losing a war against Pakistan.


5) Remilitarizing, with ultranationalism creeping back into Japanese culture.

 

[LouisTheGreyFox]

Also South Korea isn't much of a good democracy anymore either and are currently creating their own nuclear weapons due to being next door to North Korea and Lesser Mao's China.

 

[Deleted member 141906]

Who would even vote for the Republicans in 1988?

 

[Knightmare]

Who would even vote for the Republicans in 1988?

Voluntarily, or with some persuation?

 

[Bookmark1995]

Who would even vote for the Republicans in 1988?

Well...

Remember that many of the votes were "purchased" from Americans by the CVs. Although the proper term would be "the starving masses were blackmailed into coughing up their voting rights in exchange for a small amount of food."

So it is possible the small remains of the GOP tried to buy as many votes as possible.

 

[PGF]

I wonder if people in the future will see what occurred to America as a punishment by God for believing in capitalism.

 

[Saint_007]

I wonder if people in the future will see what occurred to America as a punishment by God for believing in capitalism.

I highly doubt that. For one thing, several other capitalist nations are doing (mostly) fine. Hell, even the USSR absorbed capitalist ideas into its system.

Then again, you have people saying AIDS, Covid-19, and economic downturn are punishments from God, but those tend to be a radical minority.

 

[Stalingrad]

I highly doubt that. For one thing, several other capitalist nations are doing (mostly) fine. Hell, even the USSR absorbed capitalist ideas into its system.

Then again, you have people saying AIDS, Covid-19, and economic downturn are punishments from God, but those tend to be a radical minority.

It seems he means that people ITTL started literally worshipping capitalism or something like that, not due to trusting the capitalist system.

Or that's how I interpreted the post.

 

[Bookmark1995]

I wonder if people in the future will see what occurred to America as a punishment by God for believing in capitalism.

I highly doubt that. For one thing, several other capitalist nations are doing (mostly) fine. Hell, even the USSR absorbed capitalist ideas into its system.

Then again, you have people saying AIDS, Covid-19, and economic downturn are punishments from God, but those tend to be a radical minority.

It seems he means that people ITTL started literally worshipping capitalism or something like that, not due to trusting the capitalist system.

Or that's how I interpreted the post.

I can imagine there might be some preachers who will denounce Rumsfeldia as "The Cult of Mammon." Considering how much of the suffering of the Decade of Tears was brought about by crony capitalists exploiting Rumsfeld's lunacy for their own gain, these could create whole sects of Christianity that furiously condemn greed. Not necessarily making money, but the willingness to murder soldiers just to save a few pennies.

The Christian Values and the CSA might also be condemned in this regard, considering how they also sought to pocket wealth through Rumsfeld's economic policies.

Preachers might specifically condemn the CVs for the sins of pride and wrath. Their pride is what led them to their toxic beliefs in their own innate superiority, and their wrath led them to the path of genocide and nuclear destruction.

In general, preachers might denounce the Decade of Tears as a period when national leadership was consumed by "Satanic urges."

*****

For the more secular among us, there would be many interpretations about the collapse of the United States.

1. America was a nation that lost its way.

2. The 18th century constitution wasn't equipped to deal with the strains of authoritarianism, political division, and polarization.

3. America was an empire that fell into decline, like all empires eventually do.

4. America was full of racism and bigotry.

5. Energy shortages and a bad economy radicalized the population.

 

[Bojack_Batman]

Hi there, long time reader, first time commenter. So I read a previous hypothetical scenario about Agnew getting back in power and screwing things up yet again, and I had a few thoughts.

1) Wasn't one of the terms of Agnew's impeachment being that he couldn't hold federal office?

2) Even if he tried a legal challenge saying that was the old America, wouldn't there still be people with either firsthand experience or secondhand knowledge about how Agnew screwed up everything in Asia who would fight him tooth and nail to keep him out of office or if necessary get him out of office again?

 

[bonachevski]

Hi there, long time reader, first time commenter. So I read a previous hypothetical scenario about Agnew getting back in power and screwing things up yet again, and I had a few thoughts.

1) Wasn't one of the terms of Agnew's impeachment being that he couldn't hold federal office?

2) Even if he tried a legal challenge saying that was the old America, wouldn't there still be people with either firsthand experience or secondhand knowledge about how Agnew screwed up everything in Asia who would fight him tooth and nail to keep him out of office or if necessary get him out of office again?

I don't think its impossible for Agnew to rehabilitate his image enough for the Old America argument to work. Stranger things have happened in this TL.