Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears

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no one

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wait a minute. New York being walled off, an American theocracy,independent California and with Cuerda in south America... is this the Escape from new york/LA timeline???
 
The Popular Vote Cast on Tuesday, November 8, 1988
  • Index

    • Drew

    Party President Vice President Pop.Vote %age
    Christian Values: Marion G. "Pat" Robertson (VA)- Steven D. Symms (ID)- 24,777,362- 31.2%
    Fusion: William F. Winter (MS)- William V Roth (DE)- 15,484,181- 19.5%
    Libertarian: Ronald D. Galtieri (MT)- John Hospers (VA)- 14,407,248- 18.1%
    We The People: Bobby L. Rush (IL)- Charles Barron (NY)- 8,888,765- 11.2%
    Democratic: Thomas S. Foley (WA)- Paul S. Sarbanes (MD)- 6,950,032- 8.7%
    Republican: Donald R. Dwight (MA)- Shelby Smith (KS)- 5,858,321- 7.4%
    Other: 3,118,483- 3.9%
    Total: 79,484,392

    Popular Margin- 9,293,181- 11.7% to CV

    Eligible Voters 165,157,278
    Turnout 48.13%
    Eligible Voters determined by 1980 Census figures
     
  • Index

    • DG Valdron

    Bookmark1995 said:
    FW (pronounced eff-veer) de Klerk was a man who fed from the table of apartheid for decades. He, like every son of a bitch in the National Party, had blood and tears on his hands. Does that mean that Nelson Mandela should have led a violent revolution, and shot de Klerk and his cronies dead? Maybe. Would that have led to civil war? Definitely.

    Again, I would not want to work with the Rumsfeld Republicans. Bobby Rush and Ronald Galtieri's words reflect my own. But giving them a shortened sentence in exchange for a peaceful political transition is INFINITELY preferable to civil war.
    Click to expand...

    Well, except that there was no transition. The problem was that the Republican 'unity' movement wasn't truly about unity, it was just a modified version of Rumsfeldia. A kinder, gentler version of Rumsfeldia, with all their own past sins forgiven, their own people exempt, their ill gotten gains consolidated, until they were ready to go back to SOP. The trouble was that the Unity Ticket never managed to sell itself to anyone as unity, but merely as the same old gang of thugs perpetuating themselves. They'd had some reverses, so they were making nice while they had to. But once they got their own back.... they would go back to their old ways.

    FW de Klerk was actually coming to the end of apartheid. What was going to replace it was something new. The former Rumsfeld cronies were forced by circumstance to moderate, but they wanted a continuation of some kind of Rumsfeldia.
     

    Bookmark1995

    Banned
    DValdron said:
    Well, except that there was no transition. The problem was that the Republican 'unity' movement wasn't truly about unity, it was just a modified version of Rumsfeldia. A kinder, gentler version of Rumsfeldia, with all their own past sins forgiven, their own people exempt, their ill gotten gains consolidated, until they were ready to go back to SOP. The trouble was that the Unity Ticket never managed to sell itself to anyone as unity, but merely as the same old gang of thugs perpetuating themselves. They'd had some reverses, so they were making nice while they had to. But once they got their own back.... they would go back to their old ways.

    FW de Klerk was actually coming to the end of apartheid. What was going to replace it was something new. The former Rumsfeld cronies were forced by circumstance to moderate, but they wanted a continuation of some kind of Rumsfeldia.
    Click to expand...

    Your mostly right. As stated, the 1988 Republican Party was not interested in any real reform, and were more interested in protecting their ill-gotten gains, which is why most of them backed the CV.

    Winter and Roth, the Fusion ticket, were somewhat outside of Rumsfeldia, which is why thy were able to form a unity ticket. Winter himself pushed an amnesty bill, which was not a pure pardon, but promised shortened sentences to lower rung Rumsfeldian figures in order to prosecute higher ups. Of course, they quickly drove away a lot of figures, both radical and mainstream, who felt (like you did) about the whole thing.

    I imagine ITTL, people will have similar arguments we're having: whether or not the Fusion ticket could've brought real reforms, or whether or would have kept the structure of Rumsfeldia in place.

    One of those big what ifs: like McKeithen not boarding his plane, or Reagan winning in 1980, or Jesse Jackson not running in 84.
     
    Knightmare

    Knightmare

    Bookmark1995 said:
    Again, I would not want to work with the Rumsfeld Republicans. Bobby Rush and Ronald Galtieri's words reflect my own. But giving them a shortened sentence in exchange for a peaceful political transition is INFINITELY preferable to civil war.
    Click to expand...
    Assuming anyone wants to take that risk. Remember, the two big parties are not popular at all, meaning anyone offering amnesty risks being tarred with the brush. The actions of the accused aren't helping matters either.

    News flash: If you're literally only slightly less popular then a sewage worker, going around asking for amnesty while people can still see, and in fact, are still effecteted by their deeds, it's going to end poorly for you.
     

    Berkeley2017

    Bookmark1995 said:
    FW (pronounced eff-veer) de Klerk was a man who fed from the table of apartheid for decades. He, like every son of a bitch in the National Party, had blood and tears on his hands. Does that mean that Nelson Mandela should have led a violent revolution, and shot de Klerk and his cronies dead? Maybe. Would that have led to civil war? Definitely.

    Again, I would not want to work with the Rumsfeld Republicans. Bobby Rush and Ronald Galtieri's words reflect my own. But giving them a shortened sentence in exchange for a peaceful political transition is INFINITELY preferable to civil war.
    Click to expand...

    Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think Americans ITTL could've predicted a civil war until literally right before it happened, considering America is one of the most stable nations in the world for over a century. They let their emotions get the best of them and had no idea how bad the consequences can be until after the fact.
     

    Bookmark1995

    Banned
    Knightmare said:
    Assuming anyone wants to take that risk. Remember, the two big parties are not popular at all, meaning anyone offering amnesty risks being tarred with the brush. The actions of the accused aren't helping matters either.

    News flash: If you're literally only slightly less popular then a sewage worker, going around asking for amnesty while people can still see, and in fact, are still effecteted by their deeds, it's going to end poorly for you.
    Click to expand...

    Again, the person to blame for such a toxic political environment is Mr. Rumsfeld himself.

    Berkeley2017 said:
    Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think Americans ITTL could've predicted a civil war until literally right before it happened, considering America is one of the most stable nations in the world for over a century. They let their emotions get the best of them and had no idea how bad the consequences can be until after the fact.
    Click to expand...

    Their acceptance of the CV is the result of a LOT of factors, both political and cultural.

    But I'm saying that like people who wish that Hitler had never come to power, many Americans will wish that millions of people didn't have to die.

    Nobody could've predicted civil war, but then again, no one in Germany could have predicted the Holocaust, and so many will wish for a world where that didn't happen.
     

    lord caedus

    Here's the updated 1988 infobox, with the Democratic & Republican candidates.

    I changed Wallace's color to match the one in the 1972 box and shifted the Libertarians to a more gold color. I also gave the CV a darker color (that of the OTL Constitution Party) since it makes the state borders stand out a little better than the magenta one I'd used previously.

    rummy88.png
     
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