Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears

[Berkeley2017]

Honestly, the US is probably going to be balkanized (what an irony it'd be if Yugoslavia remains united and it's the US which becomes the shorthand cultural reference for a former unitary state that breaks up due to internal pressures). We'll probably see the California Republic and the US Remnant, plus some kind of Libertarian state in the Mid-West, and then an independent South. The mid-Atlantic states will probably be some kind of US*/UN/USSR/EU administered zone, since they've been the ones hit hardest by the CV's and the likely fallout from the CSA.

Americanized

 

[Miss Teri]

Honestly, the US is probably going to be balkanized (what an irony it'd be if Yugoslavia remains united and it's the US which becomes the shorthand cultural reference for a former unitary state that breaks up due to internal pressures).

There's also China, India, South Africa....

 

[Lost Freeway]

By the way, do you know who instituted a national health service? General Pinochet! Yes, that Pinochet! If a tyrant who slaughters 3000 leftists considers health care to be an essential service, so should you!

Uh, do you mind providing your source for this tidbit?

 

[djPROUDGEEK]

Uh, do you mind providing your source for this tidbit?

Oh jeez, let's not wade back into that flame war, please? I still get flashbacks...

 

[bookmark95]

Oh jeez, let's not wade back into that flame war, please? I still get flashbacks...

yes please. Don't do it a again.

I like to think the dude who started it was a Liberty Battalion member who crossed the multiverse.

 

[Deleted member 87099]

Oh jeez, let's not wade back into that flame war, please? I still get flashbacks...

Oh yeah... that guy's user title was "Rumsfeld/Edwards 84'" too...

 

[Lost Freeway]

Oh jeez, let's not wade back into that flame war, please? I still get flashbacks...

yes please. Don't do it a again.

I like to think the dude who started it was a Liberty Battalion member who crossed the multiverse.

It would still be nice to see where he got that info, seeing as how I can't find it.

 

[Agentdark]

Woooh. New update. That was fun

 

[Drew]

Wonderful update. It was well worth the wait.

Quick side note: I thought it was Mervyn Dymally, and not Ron Dellums, who became California's Vice President.

Originally, however McCloskey needed to consolidate his support among the WTPs in California (who, under McCloskey, are not as violently oppressed as their fellows in the Midwest and the East Coast). Dymally, who had the position by virtue of having been elected Lt. Governor of California, stepped down to allow Dellums, still a WTP leader on the West Coast, to join the broader unity coalition in a more senior role.

McCloskey's Cabinet would thus include Democrats, WTP and moderate Republicans under a unity banner designed to preserve California's independence against the challenges of, initially, Rumsfeld and now the CVs.

So far we have:

President: Paul N. ("Pete") McCloskey
Vice President: Ronald V. Dellums
Secretary of Foreign Affairs: Edmund G. ("Jerry") Brown Jr.
Secretary of the Treasury: Robert H. Finch
Special Trade Negotiator: Patrick J. Leahy
Secretary of Education: Mervyn M. Dymally

 

[Lost Freeway]

Honestly, the US is probably going to be balkanized (what an irony it'd be if Yugoslavia remains united and it's the US which becomes the shorthand cultural reference for a former unitary state that breaks up due to internal pressures).

I doubt it. Marshal Tito isn't immortal, and once he dies, the same rot that did Yugoslavia in IOTL is gonna set in.

 

[Miss Teri]

I doubt it. Marshal Tito isn't immortal, and once he dies, the same rot that did Yugoslavia in IOTL is gonna set in.

Marshal Tito died in 1981 at age 87. I don't think he lived any longer than he did OTL. Still, with the USSR in a stronger position, would they try to finally bring Yugoslavia into the Eastern Bloc following Tito's death?

 

[bookmark95]

Originally, however McCloskey needed to consolidate his support among the WTPs in California (who, under McCloskey, are not as violently oppressed as their fellows in the Midwest and the East Coast). Dymally, who had the position by virtue of having been elected Lt. Governor of California, stepped down to allow Dellums, still a WTP leader on the West Coast, to join the broader unity coalition in a more senior role.

McCloskey's Cabinet would thus include Democrats, WTP and moderate Republicans under a unity banner designed to preserve California's independence against the challenges of, initially, Rumsfeld and now the CVs.

So far we have:

President: Paul N. ("Pete") McCloskey
Vice President: Ronald V. Dellums
Secretary of Foreign Affairs: Edmund G. ("Jerry") Brown Jr.
Secretary of the Treasury: Robert H. Finch
Special Trade Negotiator: Patrick J. Leahy
Secretary of Education: Mervyn M. Dymally

Has McCloskey used his political position as the leader of an independent California to simply resist the CVs until someone reasonable can enter the White House, or is he embracing an independent California (like the government of Hawaii is doing) and enacting various reforms (environmental laws, anti-discrimination suits, prison reform, etc.) in the process?

 

[Berkeley2017]

Are there significant numbers of Asian Americans returning to their countries of ethnic origin, and enough to make an impact in places like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan? Something along the lines of the OTL dekasagi, the wave of Japanese Brazilians moving to Japan in the 1980s and 90s.

 

[Lost Freeway]

Are there significant numbers of Asian Americans returning to their countries of ethnic origin, and enough to make an impact in places like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan? Something along the lines of the OTL dekasagi, the wave of Japanese Brazilians moving to Japan in the 1980s and 90s.

Possibly. Anything to get away from Rummy.

 

[Miss Teri]

Possibly. Anything to get away from Rummy.

Well, there is this:

Blacks were largely antithetical to the Rumsfeld program already, as were a majority (though not all) voters of Hispanic ethnicity (with pro-Rumsfeld support higher among Cuban-Americans). Since Rumsfeld did not have much support from this group, he felt little problem in alienating them. Equally, and based largely on his tough law-and-order policies Rumsfeld had strong support among first-generation Asian immigrants, many of whom benefitted from his pro-business policies as well, while that support fell off among second and third generation Asian-Americans

Also, a lot of Asians live on California and the Pacific coast, so anyone not living there already will probably move there as well.

 

[Berkeley2017]

Well, there is this:


Also, a lot of Asians live on California and the Pacific coast, so anyone not living there already will probably move there as well.

I think California ultimately be faced with significant emigration as well though, for those who could afford a plane ticket at least. The fact that California could hold out against Rumsfeld and later the CVs in the 2nd Civil War was far from given, and even if they do hold out, California may very well turn into a warzone. Many would leave out of fear of the worst.

 

[bookmark95]

I think California ultimately be faced with significant emigration as well though, for those who could afford a plane ticket at least. The fact that California could hold out against Rumsfeld and later the CVs in the 2nd Civil War was far from given, and even if they do hold out, California may very well turn into a warzone. Many would leave out of fear of the worst.

In "Rummyhorror", it was indicated that the CV don't have access to long range nuclear weapons, and that they are currently losing the war against Bozemania, which is why Coe was getting desperate enough to use chemical weapons.

Thus, California and the rest of the Pacific coast could get out unscathed.

 

[Berkeley2017]

In "Rummyhorror", it was indicated that the CV don't have access to long range nuclear weapons, and that they are currently losing the war against Bozemania, which is why Coe was getting desperate enough to use chemical weapons.

Thus, California and the rest of the Pacific coast could get out unscathed.

From hindsight, we know that's the case. But not in 1988. The last update showed the leaders of California fearful of the threat to their independence posed by the CVs. Ordinary people would be scared as well and it's likely that many would fear for the worst and leave ASAP.

 

[bookmark95]

From hindsight, we know that's the case. But not in 1988. The last update showed the leaders of California fearful of the threat to their independence posed by the CVs. Ordinary people would be scared as well and it's likely that many would fear for the worst and leave ASAP.

Good point. But the fact that Asian states are signing trade deals with California means there is some faith in California's ability to survive.

 

[Deleted member 87099]

Just curious, at what point do you all think that the Gumboverse 'passed the point of no return' and was doomed to become or stay fucked no matter what?