Could we at least get an epilogue explaining what had happened after 1988, just to tie up loose ends?
Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears
- Thread starter Drew
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Could we at least get an epilogue explaining what had happened after 1988, just to tie up loose ends?
Lost Freeway
Banned
And the story has ended without resolution, just because a few people got angry when Rumsfeld's removal didn't lead to sunshine and butterflies.
shiftygiant
Gone Fishin'
And the story has ended without resolution, just because a few people got angry when Rumsfeld's removal didn't lead to sunshine and butterflies.
It's pretty crushing. While I think the time skip was a bit misjudged, at the same time the CV taking over has been building up for yonks with all signs pointing to it. Retconning certain aspects to fit better with how the story was progressing was also fine, and makes some sense. That entire Timeskip of the accumulation of a massive gambit pileup that's been growing since Gavin's Administration, and it's silly to not expect utter chaos in the post-Rumsfeld void. Did it go over the top? A bit, but at the same time I wasn't revolted, I was more interested in seeing it get to that point.
Drew, if you want to end the timeline that's fine, it's your call to make. I really don't want it to end like this, and I beg you to continue, but if you really feel that you can't go on, well, its your call and your call alone.
I also want to see Drew end it properly and not end it suddenly as he seems to be suggesting.
Drew, please keep writing - many of us await more with genuine interest and glee.
Drew, please keep writing - many of us await more with genuine interest and glee.
Deleted member 87099
I agree.
Drew, this is probably one of the greatest timelines on this board, it would be a shame if you completed it without giving it a proper ending.
A shame. I thought two years of an American Reign of Terror seemed a plausible followup to Rumsfeld's removal, and it's a shame to see Drew harassed into retconning it.
Yeah, I mus say that while I think the timeline stayed away from "hard" plausibility into a looser attitude, I've always enjoyed it, and would like to see it follows through to a more natural end than a hard retcon/Rumsfeld falls, everyone dies.
Yeah, I found that out when I reread the pertinent part of the previous TL
.In my defense, it has been six years out-of-universe since that event (and I noticed that you did say people in-universe would come up with conspiracies surrounding Nixon's shooting and McKeithen's death, which is what I wound up doing)
More importantly, I certainly don't want you to quit this just because I or anyone else have problems with it. You put a lot of effort into this, far more than I've been able to with any project I've done, and it isn't fair to you or the readers if peer pressure forces you to quit. If you're still passionate about this, by all means continue. As long as you and your fans continue to enjoy this timeline, that's what matters, not my opinion.
Drew kudos for a great job in writing this timeline from 1972 onwards. I would love to see it carried through of course, but its your call at the end of the day.
Consistency is very difficult to maintain as writing a very detailled timeline quickly means that its scope balloon. We can't expect TL writers to be expert in everything, thence mistakes will happen. Yet said mistakes may sometimes have an impact on the bigger picture too. Remember our discussion on Belper B a few years back. This was one of these instances
In terms of plausibility well I think that while the whole CSA thing might be far fetched. The slow descent into mess of the 1980s is not implausible at all. Through my own journey and involvment in politics I have witnessed a few things that would enable something like Rumsfeldia to happen, namely:
-In fringe circles, extremism is considered a virtue and a mark of competence. It's something to be admired and not questioned.
-The right is just as capable as the left to be fully devoted to principles and a "chief". The reaction of some of my friends to Maggie Thatcher said was enlightening in that respect. It was almost as if a cult leader had died.
-The apparatus of most political parties is full of incompetents at the lower levels. The middle class "country club Republicans" will be ardent Rumsfeldites and will only realise their mistake way too late. Chiefly because business will be easier, incompetents will have a chance and "them" will be percieved to get their comeuppance.
-"The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions" This one is self explanatory. Most politicals or individuals dont have the self awareness to realise what they're doing.
-"Power corrupts" Anyone in a leadership position is or has been tempted to surround himself/herself with sycophants
-Most people are poor at spotting the bigger picture and at doing strategy instead of tactics.
That would be somewhat of a pity because I thought it would be interesting to see what a post-American world would look like. It is an odd turn of fate that in this TL, the last decade of the 20th Century now resembles the first in terms of centres of power (Europe being the dominant continent, Japan a rising world power, possible colonial relationships in the same places, not to mention the British Liberals being a major political force, etc). However, since the research has naturally focused on the US, it would be difficult to continue into the 1990s, since most of the important decisions will now be made in the Old World. In addition, those who were born after the POD (and therefore were never born in OTL) will be young adults in the next decade and therefore in a position to influence the direction of history. As a consequence, going further down the rabbit hole would require more speculation and less calculation.
However, this still has to be my favourite TL. If you insist on shutting it down here, could we at least finish the 1980s and the "Where Are They Now?" requests?
I thought that future timelines could be ones where the 8-ball within the "Gumbo-verse" is directed in a slightly different way (i.e. Reagan beating Wallace in 1976; Reagan beating Rumsfeld and then Carey in 1980; The 1986 Coup attempt being successful).
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I think that Rumsfeld's removal would make a suitable ending for this timeline; now a further detailed exploration of his successor and the inevitable hostile takeover of the CVs (and its collapse) during the late 80s and early 90s would make a sweet sequel in my opinion.
Bob Dylan - exile
Roger Stone - disillusioned Rumsfeldite
Pat Buchanan - nervous breakdown
Howard Stern - homeless
Robin Quivers - ER nurse
Nigel Farage - supporter of the current right-wing Conservative Party
Joyce Rumsfeld - in seclusion at the Rumsfeld Illinois home
Idi Amin - mild ITTL; President-for-Life of Uganda
Collin Powell - advising the McCloskey Administration
Paul Ryan - a fitness trainer in DC
Mitt Romney - ex-con, Mormon community member
Roger Stone - disillusioned Rumsfeldite
Pat Buchanan - nervous breakdown
Howard Stern - homeless
Robin Quivers - ER nurse
Nigel Farage - supporter of the current right-wing Conservative Party
Joyce Rumsfeld - in seclusion at the Rumsfeld Illinois home
Idi Amin - mild ITTL; President-for-Life of Uganda
Collin Powell - advising the McCloskey Administration
Paul Ryan - a fitness trainer in DC
Mitt Romney - ex-con, Mormon community member
Alan Moore....still writing comics or something even worse happened to him in TTL?
January 31, 1988
The Oval Office
President Denton read the report with a sense of – shock wasn’t quite the right word - no that was too tame – horror was closer, but still somehow inadequate – weak, really.
Who could believe this? How could this have happened, and no one noticed?
Jeremiah Denton had to pause and consider for a moment; he had been around then, he had been active in national affairs. Why hadn’t he noticed? He’d seen so many of his erstwhile colleagues hauled off with - “nervous breakdowns” – the term now gripped him to his marrow like he’d just swallowed poison – and he’d shrugged it off as the effects of stress. No, he realized in an inescapable cold shower of truth – the kind forced upon a man sitting in this chair, in this office - where the buck really did stop because there was nowhere else to pass it – he had been part of the problem. He had acquiesced in the “nervous breakdowns” because it had been convenient – even expedient – to let them go on, because they removed political opponents from the field. Rumsfeld had removed people he regarded as obstacles to achieving his political goals, and because that was the case, he had allowed it to go on.
No! As President, his first duty to the nation was to be honest with himself, and in being honest he had to confront the most unpleasant realization. I, by my acceptance, enabled it. I allowed it; I used it. I am as guilty as Rumsfeld because I not only accepted it as the natural course, but I took the option to gain from it. If I did not know the details – that does not excuse me. I partook of its fruits, therefore I share the responsibility.
Had he not been sitting in the Oval Office – he might have knelt down before his God and wept in abject grief over this horrible insight.
But this would have been unseemly for a President, and now Denton had to redeem the Presidency. That was all that was left to him now.
The report before Denton told him that a still uncounted number of officials and citizens – some early estimates – as yet unconfirmed - placed it at over five hundred thousand – had been committed for “nervous breakdowns” in the last seven years. All had been housed in sub-standard facilities (which had appeared to be country clubs for visiting family members but were in reality little more than concentration camps built around Potemkin Village visitor’s centers) where they had been pumped full of drugs – addictive drugs – mind altering drugs. All contracted out to private – health care – corporations: an entire population of addicts, some no doubt damaged for life, all for profit – and political expediency.
I once thought Hanoi had been Hell; but I now see that it was only purgatory. Donald Rumsfeld had made the real thing, all while I fed at his table.
What could he do about this? If the truth were known – were to come out abruptly, without preparation – how great would the outrage be? And, Denton had to acknowledged – how deserved the whirlwind against them all would be.
The arrival of the President’s next appointment interrupted his lament over Rumsfeld’s victims.
The Reverend Elvis Presley shook the President’s outstretched hand and took a seat on one of the Oval Office couches. Denton took a seat to his right, the fireplace behind him with and George Washington’s portrait above the mantel (Rumsfeld had placed Hoover’s portrait there; one of Denton’s first acts had been to replace it with Washington’s).
“Reverend Presley, I’ll cut to the chase. The American people are – troubled – no, I think shell-shocked is probably closer to the truth – by all that has happened the last few years-“
“Mr. President, may I be equally as blunt?”
“Yes, Reverend. Please.”
“Mr. President, the American people are like the victims of a storm. For so long they have struggled to survive against the destructive winds and the beating rain. Those winds and rain have taken the form of economic hardship, political oppression and outright thuggery by the so-called Liberty Battalions, some of whom are little better than common criminals. Today they are beyond shock, beyond simple words really. They don’t know what to believe anymore, and I think many are in danger of falling into a cynicism – a darkness of spirit – where they will believe in nothing again, least of all ideas of hope, community and fellowship. “
“Yes, I agree Reverend. That is why I have asked you here today. We need to organize a drive, across this nation, to help our people – be it with food, shelter, safety in their communities – whatever can offer them hope. Many people look to you, Reverend. You stood against – the past – even in the darkest days. You avoided a “nervous breakdown” only because you surrounded yourself with followers at all times- and stayed above politics. Well, Reverend, I need you – our nation needs you – to mobilize those followers to reach out, to help spread a ray of hope through the darkness, to join with others in combatting the ills that have taken hold for so long.”
“Are you asking me to work with the Christian Values, Mr. President?” Elvis asked. “As you know – with all due respect – I have long stood against what they stand for – in political terms. Mine has been a ministry of the soul, not politics. I do not champion partisan causes. God saved me from the darkness that I might save others from that darkness, that I raise warriors for the light, not to storm Washington for narrow political causes.”
“Yes, I know, Reverend. I’m not asking for political support. My request is not political. My request is to reach out to our people – to offer them something – to have them understand that the days of worshipping at the altar of profit have ended.”
“I’m not sure I detect so – broad – a view among the rank-and-file of the Christian Values, not here among the leadership, anyway. As you may know, I am not welcome in their circles, as I will not accept their political view.”
“I came here with the Christian Values, Reverend, but I am now the President – and as such I view my responsibility are more than any narrow partisan interest. I do not ask you to endorse the Christian Values. I don’t ask you to endorse me. I ask you to work with me, with what government we have left, to help ameliorate the suffering this past seven years have caused – to rebuild the spirit of our people enough that a democratic nation can again be possible.”
“Provided it is understood that I will never endorse a political cause, provided I can tend to the souls of men and women as a fisher of souls and not a collector of votes, then perhaps there is much we can discuss and agree to.”
“That is enough to begin with, Reverend.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------
“A fisher of souls, not a collector of votes?” Douglas Coe asked. “He said that?”
“And he meant it,” Tim LaHaye replied. “You know Elvis has rejected all our entreaties. In fact, he converted two of our messengers to his cause.”
“Apostates,” Coe said with a dark, venomous tone. “Satan was well served by the miracle of Elvis’s near death. From drugs, wasn’t it?”
“It is the story of redemption which draws many to his ministry,” LaHaye replied. "They see in his - salvation - the promise of their own."
“Would that he was with us,” Coe replied. "Beware the false prophet, for his path will surely lead not but to death." He looked at the documents on the table before him. “Have you seen this, Tim?”
“Plans of the monument?”
“More than plans, Tim. A friend, a brother in the service of our Lord, owns a foundry where he has already cast many of the parts. They are in readiness, for the day we can bring it into the open and place it first among all the granite temples of the capital.”
“You will place it on the Mall?” LaHaye asked.
“Someday. Someday, it will replace that pagan abomination – that so called monument to Washington – that unholy thing, that pagan idol, that mocks all believers. Someday, our Lord will take his proper place above all false idols of stone in that cesspool of iniquity. That will be our service to our Lord, Tim.”
------------------------------------------------
The Oval Office
President Denton read the report with a sense of – shock wasn’t quite the right word - no that was too tame – horror was closer, but still somehow inadequate – weak, really.
Who could believe this? How could this have happened, and no one noticed?
Jeremiah Denton had to pause and consider for a moment; he had been around then, he had been active in national affairs. Why hadn’t he noticed? He’d seen so many of his erstwhile colleagues hauled off with - “nervous breakdowns” – the term now gripped him to his marrow like he’d just swallowed poison – and he’d shrugged it off as the effects of stress. No, he realized in an inescapable cold shower of truth – the kind forced upon a man sitting in this chair, in this office - where the buck really did stop because there was nowhere else to pass it – he had been part of the problem. He had acquiesced in the “nervous breakdowns” because it had been convenient – even expedient – to let them go on, because they removed political opponents from the field. Rumsfeld had removed people he regarded as obstacles to achieving his political goals, and because that was the case, he had allowed it to go on.
No! As President, his first duty to the nation was to be honest with himself, and in being honest he had to confront the most unpleasant realization. I, by my acceptance, enabled it. I allowed it; I used it. I am as guilty as Rumsfeld because I not only accepted it as the natural course, but I took the option to gain from it. If I did not know the details – that does not excuse me. I partook of its fruits, therefore I share the responsibility.
Had he not been sitting in the Oval Office – he might have knelt down before his God and wept in abject grief over this horrible insight.
But this would have been unseemly for a President, and now Denton had to redeem the Presidency. That was all that was left to him now.
The report before Denton told him that a still uncounted number of officials and citizens – some early estimates – as yet unconfirmed - placed it at over five hundred thousand – had been committed for “nervous breakdowns” in the last seven years. All had been housed in sub-standard facilities (which had appeared to be country clubs for visiting family members but were in reality little more than concentration camps built around Potemkin Village visitor’s centers) where they had been pumped full of drugs – addictive drugs – mind altering drugs. All contracted out to private – health care – corporations: an entire population of addicts, some no doubt damaged for life, all for profit – and political expediency.
I once thought Hanoi had been Hell; but I now see that it was only purgatory. Donald Rumsfeld had made the real thing, all while I fed at his table.
What could he do about this? If the truth were known – were to come out abruptly, without preparation – how great would the outrage be? And, Denton had to acknowledged – how deserved the whirlwind against them all would be.
The arrival of the President’s next appointment interrupted his lament over Rumsfeld’s victims.
The Reverend Elvis Presley shook the President’s outstretched hand and took a seat on one of the Oval Office couches. Denton took a seat to his right, the fireplace behind him with and George Washington’s portrait above the mantel (Rumsfeld had placed Hoover’s portrait there; one of Denton’s first acts had been to replace it with Washington’s).
“Reverend Presley, I’ll cut to the chase. The American people are – troubled – no, I think shell-shocked is probably closer to the truth – by all that has happened the last few years-“
“Mr. President, may I be equally as blunt?”
“Yes, Reverend. Please.”
“Mr. President, the American people are like the victims of a storm. For so long they have struggled to survive against the destructive winds and the beating rain. Those winds and rain have taken the form of economic hardship, political oppression and outright thuggery by the so-called Liberty Battalions, some of whom are little better than common criminals. Today they are beyond shock, beyond simple words really. They don’t know what to believe anymore, and I think many are in danger of falling into a cynicism – a darkness of spirit – where they will believe in nothing again, least of all ideas of hope, community and fellowship. “
“Yes, I agree Reverend. That is why I have asked you here today. We need to organize a drive, across this nation, to help our people – be it with food, shelter, safety in their communities – whatever can offer them hope. Many people look to you, Reverend. You stood against – the past – even in the darkest days. You avoided a “nervous breakdown” only because you surrounded yourself with followers at all times- and stayed above politics. Well, Reverend, I need you – our nation needs you – to mobilize those followers to reach out, to help spread a ray of hope through the darkness, to join with others in combatting the ills that have taken hold for so long.”
“Are you asking me to work with the Christian Values, Mr. President?” Elvis asked. “As you know – with all due respect – I have long stood against what they stand for – in political terms. Mine has been a ministry of the soul, not politics. I do not champion partisan causes. God saved me from the darkness that I might save others from that darkness, that I raise warriors for the light, not to storm Washington for narrow political causes.”
“Yes, I know, Reverend. I’m not asking for political support. My request is not political. My request is to reach out to our people – to offer them something – to have them understand that the days of worshipping at the altar of profit have ended.”
“I’m not sure I detect so – broad – a view among the rank-and-file of the Christian Values, not here among the leadership, anyway. As you may know, I am not welcome in their circles, as I will not accept their political view.”
“I came here with the Christian Values, Reverend, but I am now the President – and as such I view my responsibility are more than any narrow partisan interest. I do not ask you to endorse the Christian Values. I don’t ask you to endorse me. I ask you to work with me, with what government we have left, to help ameliorate the suffering this past seven years have caused – to rebuild the spirit of our people enough that a democratic nation can again be possible.”
“Provided it is understood that I will never endorse a political cause, provided I can tend to the souls of men and women as a fisher of souls and not a collector of votes, then perhaps there is much we can discuss and agree to.”
“That is enough to begin with, Reverend.”
-----------------------------------------------------------------
“A fisher of souls, not a collector of votes?” Douglas Coe asked. “He said that?”
“And he meant it,” Tim LaHaye replied. “You know Elvis has rejected all our entreaties. In fact, he converted two of our messengers to his cause.”
“Apostates,” Coe said with a dark, venomous tone. “Satan was well served by the miracle of Elvis’s near death. From drugs, wasn’t it?”
“It is the story of redemption which draws many to his ministry,” LaHaye replied. "They see in his - salvation - the promise of their own."
“Would that he was with us,” Coe replied. "Beware the false prophet, for his path will surely lead not but to death." He looked at the documents on the table before him. “Have you seen this, Tim?”
“Plans of the monument?”
“More than plans, Tim. A friend, a brother in the service of our Lord, owns a foundry where he has already cast many of the parts. They are in readiness, for the day we can bring it into the open and place it first among all the granite temples of the capital.”
“You will place it on the Mall?” LaHaye asked.
“Someday. Someday, it will replace that pagan abomination – that so called monument to Washington – that unholy thing, that pagan idol, that mocks all believers. Someday, our Lord will take his proper place above all false idols of stone in that cesspool of iniquity. That will be our service to our Lord, Tim.”
------------------------------------------------
Alan Moore....still writing comics or something even worse happened to him in TTL?
Probably more of an underground thing.
Probably becomes as famous as R. Crumb in that regard then, knowing his own proclivities.
Amazing update, BTW. Elvis's story was highly interesting.
bookmark95
Banned
This was a really moving update...
I like how Denton, once he entered the Oval Office, transformed from an opportunist to a mature, compassionate man.
It must be horrifying for him to see the country he loves committing such horrors, that made his experiences in Vietnam look like a picnic, and that he more or less enabled it for his own gain.
500,000 people damaged by drug injections. That's an entire generation of leaders ruined for life.
I always wondered how post-Rumsfeld authorities would remedy the damage done by Rumsfeld's dirty war, and Denton may find that to be the most difficult job.
The fact that Denton decides to become the light of a new day, and recruit Elvis Presley, makes him a lot more tragic when you know what's going to happen.
I like how Denton, once he entered the Oval Office, transformed from an opportunist to a mature, compassionate man.
It must be horrifying for him to see the country he loves committing such horrors, that made his experiences in Vietnam look like a picnic, and that he more or less enabled it for his own gain.
500,000 people damaged by drug injections
. That's an entire generation of leaders ruined for life.I always wondered how post-Rumsfeld authorities would remedy the damage done by Rumsfeld's dirty war, and Denton may find that to be the most difficult job.
The fact that Denton decides to become the light of a new day, and recruit Elvis Presley, makes him a lot more tragic when you know what's going to happen.
Caught up with this timeline. A bit over the top at times, but the CV coup and the way they gain absolute power makes sense considering that there are no social services and CV took over with that. CV also basically controls the Liberty Battalions (who I believe will be renamed the Holy Legionnaires after the takeover is complete). Seeing the way things shook out and my family's ideology, it wouldn't shock me if my Dad ITTL ended up in the Liberty Battalions but will end up purged due to being a Catholic assuming he doesn't get caught up in the Evangelical conversions. Thinking that normal people could end up as monsters due to the circumstances of Rumsfeldia is one of the scariest aspects of this TL. I'm glad that it appears that you'll at least continue the TL up to the time-skip, though.
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