Railroad thread

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Thought I'd give a list of all of the New York Central Hudsons Preserved ITTL for future reference. This includes some references to the creations of Richard Leonard.

- J-1d #5200: On Display at the New York Central Museum; Elkhart, IN
- J-1c #5274: On Display at the Queen City Roundhouse Museum: Cincinnati, OH
- J-1d #5300: On Display at Illinois Railway Museum; Union, IL; Previously on display in Kingston, NY
- J-1d #5349: On Display at Battle Creek, MI
- J-3a #5433: Operational; Based at the Ohio Railway Museum; Worthington, OH
- J-3a #5344: On display at the New York Central Museum; Elkhart, IN
- J-3a #5450: Operational; Based at the Western New York Railroad Historical Society; Buffalo, NY; the only streamlined Hudson in operating condition today.
- J-3a #5455: On display at the America Rails Museum; Jersey City, NJ
- J-4a #5482: On display at Rochestor, NY
- J-4b #8493: On display in Lima, OH

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Recently, I was thinking about various ideas I had previously shared in conversations. Most notably, one for the New York Central's Paul Kiefer studying and embracing N&W steam maintenance theories. Most notably, he decides to embrace such ideas as the Lubritorium: a small building where steam engines could be serviced more quickly, the use of roller bearings and automatic lubricators on all locomotives, etc. Another thing I was thinking could begin ITTL would be to have a series of cottage industries where various components and small parts could be made.

A new idea the NYC could introduce for TTL is to have the locomotive get a wash down as it is exiting the Lubritorium. It could travel past a series of steel poles that spray water so the engine has virtually all of its grime washed off. Additionally, I could see the NYC having coal and water structures technically the same structure so locomotives can be filled up with both at once, saving even more time.

Even if it doesn't delay compete dieselization until 1960, my idea was that it could at delay it long enough for more NYC steamers to be preserved.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

NEW YORK CENTRAL TO EXPAND RAIL YARD, STEAM SERVICING FACILITIES IN AREA
Ever since the Coolidge Administration's now legendary deregulation of the railroad, many railroads have been looking for the best ways to increase their peak efficiency. The New York Central has been the most obvious example, with their regular studying of how other railroad's achieve high efficiency with both rolling stock and logistical operations. Mechanical Superintendent Paul W. Kiefer has stated that the Robert R. Young Yard, located on the west side of town, will be used as sort of a test bed for applying these and similar innovations to all of the New York Central's major rail facilities.

As part of the efficiency improvements that will be featured in the Robert R. Young Yard's makeover, Kiefer has stated that they will be adapting several steam operating practices that were created by the Norfolk & Western. The most notable of these is a two-berth structure called a "Lubritorium", in which locomotives that have just arrived can enter to receive maintenance in a more timely manny than of they were to use the more traditional roundhouse. Upon exiting the Lubritorium, locomotives will run through a sort of metal arch though which water is sprayed to clean the locomotives for their next assignment. An additional improvement that Kiefer has proposed to the NYC is applying roller bearing to the axles on as many steam engines as possible - with iconic engines like the Hudsons and Mohawks getting first priority.

A new improvement altogether that has been proposed is that the Lubritorium, coal bunker, and water tower all be one conjoined building, built in such a way that a locomotive can be checked on and refueled all at one time, thus saving time and to a lesser extent money. However, many on the NYC board have argued that it'd be wiser to have fuel and water stations be separate from the Lubritorium, but close to said building at the same time.
- The Elkhart Truth; June 23, 1934

"As soon as Mohawk 3114 had come to a full stop at the yards at Elkhart, Indiana she is taken off her train. While a H-10 Mikado takes her train on the last leg to Chicago, 3114 takes a spin on the turntable, then heads off to get coal and water. The Central, in its relentless push for maximum efficiency, has redesigned the idea of cal and water towers, and placed them together. That way, the locomotive can get both filled into its tender simultaneously. Such is the efficiency of this design for fuel that even the Pennsylvania Railroad has embraced this practice. Then, 3114 heads off to the Lubritorium. Created by the Norfolk & Western in the Virginias, this two-berth shed actually hides everything that is needed to service a locomotive and have it ready for its next train. Such is the efficacy of the Lubritorium that if the engine crews don't find anything wrong, locomotives can be ready for another assignment in slightly less than an hour. As she eventually heads out of the Lubritorium, 3114 has her windows closed as she goes through a thin, steel arch which hoses down the engine. Now, she is ready for her next assignment, which should be arriving in only a few minutes..."
- Excerpt from Ways of the Central; a 1958 promo film that was famous for its sheer amount of unused footage detailing NYC steam in the mid to latter-day transition period, especially when it comes to footage of the Robert R. Young Yard in Elkhart

NEW YORK CENTRAL TO PRESERVE ELKHART ROUNDHOUSES AS OFFICIAL MUSEUM
In recent years, the phasing out of the steam engine has led to internal debate amongst the New York Central regarding what to do with the sheer number of steamers that scrappers have found they simply can not eliminate in a timely fashion. Some preservationists in Elkhart, IN however, have found a potential solution and made a deal with the NYC to make this solution a reality.

As the New York Central has largely expressed a preference for diesels and electrics that are bi-directional, as well as the ease of turning around diesels in general more quickly, the New York Central's roundhouses at Robert R. Young Yard in Elkhart, IN have largely become obsolete. As has the Lubritorium, which was used to service steam quickly during steam days. New proposals, however, would involve using the roundhouses and the nearby freight depot as a railroad museum complex, with the sidings and some new-build additional track connecting the two. Under this plan, the roundhouse would be used some of the numerous NYC steamers that have been acquired by preservationists in recent years. Theoretically, it has been proposed that the roundhouse complex and Luubritorium could be used if the museum were to restore a steam engine or two for mainline excursions. However, in such a scenario it'd be a long time for the locomotive to be restored.
- Trains Magazine; February 2, 1965

NATIONAL NEW YORK CENTRAL MUSEUM TO BEGIN OPERATING STEAM EXCURSIONS
Ever since its initial reveal to the public in 1966, the National New York Central Railroad Museum has become one of the most famous American railroad museums to dedicate itself to one individual railroad. With its numerous artifacts from the Central's past, as well as its large variety of locomotives and rolling stock equipment, it is a major pilgrimage sight for any American railroad enthusiast. Helping matters is that both the Robert R. Young Yard's roundhouses and the freight depot are preserved as part its complex, and that what the NYC still uses of the yard is a major employer for the South Bend-Mishawaka-Notre Dame-Elkhart area.

Now however, the museum has proposed taking its funds and success one step further - excursions behind one of its smaller steam engines in the collection: H-5t Mikado #1425. Under these plans, the locomotive would pull a rake of vintage NYC coaches from the museum's station, which it jointly shares with Amtrak Midwest, from there over the Elkhart & Western shortline railroad to Mishawaka. However, there are concerns that exist regarding the high-speed and high frequency nature of Amtrak services. Thus, the idea is for now, merely an exercise in hypotheticals for the museum for as long as it takes to work out safety and logistical concerns.
- Elkhart Truth; June 10, 1977

NIAGARA 6015 TO BE RETURNED TO SERVICE
The National New York Central Railroad Museum has confirmed rumors that it will work with the New York Central to restore a historic engine in their collection - Niagara 6015. Details at 11.
- WSJV; May 3, 1978

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Lately, I was thinking in the case of Amtrak HSR for Chicago to Detroit about how I could maybe have them use the NYC's Wolverine Route. In such a case, I could see the New York Central rebuilding and upgrading its secondary route from Elkhart to Detroit via Sturgis and Hillsadle.

Or, I could what I was planning with the NEC, and have one or two tracks for slower trains and one for HSR.

 

[Lucas]

Lately, I was thinking in the case of Amtrak HSR for Chicago to Detroit about how I could maybe have them use the NYC's Wolverine Route. In such a case, I could see the New York Central rebuilding and upgrading its secondary route from Elkhart to Detroit via Sturgis and Hillsadle.

Or, I could what I was planning with the NEC, and have one or two tracks for slower trains and one for HSR.

If you want to make Amtrak have a true HSR service, have them buildings and operate they own trackage, not share if conventional and slower services, and electrification. This provide a high frequency and modern service.

I see at least Amtrak replicate in part what occur in France, if new direct and dedicated lines built, and Just the end points use original but improve infra as stations. But if you have the possibility to make a enclosed system, i will go If this option.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

If you want to make Amtrak have a true HSR service, have them buildings and operate they own trackage, not share if conventional and slower services, and electrification. This provide a high frequency and modern service.

I see at least Amtrak replicate in part what occur in France, if new direct and dedicated lines built, and Just the end points use original but improve infra as stations. But if you have the possibility to make a enclosed system, i will go If this option.

I know. What I'm saying it I'd have the NYC use secodnary lines so Amtrak can acquire their line for use as Chicago - Detroit HSR.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I also thought lately of some ideas for the Rio Grande Narrow Gauge ITTL. Most notably the idea of double-tracking most of the line from Antonito to Durango wherever possible. Especially when it comes to most of OTL's Cumbres & Toltec ROW. In addition to the diesels @Lucas envisioned, we could also see some of the same design used by the White Pass & Yukon in Alaska. These diesels could haul the regular freight trains running over he narrow gauge, while the steam engines haul various special passenger trains that run throughout the year.

I was thinking that the Rio Grande Narrow Gauge could also steam excursions for special events like the birthday of William Jackson Palmer, or for the holiday season.

 

[Lucas]

@Andrew Boyd

Now that you mentioned the D&RGW and Yukon, would be feasible for they have ITTL model similar like this one?

And i don´t remember if you mentioned, but ITTL would have a rail link built between US, Canada and Alaska? As extension of Alaska Railroad from Anchorange to Juneau in 50s/60s and goes down until let´s say Vancouver or even Seattle?

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

And i don´t remember if you mentioned, but ITTL would have a rail link built between US, Canada and Alaska? As extension of Alaska Railroad from Anchorange to Juneau in 50s/60s and goes down until let´s say Vancouver or even Seattle?

I was also thinking of that as a possibility.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Now that you mentioned the D&RGW and Yukon, would be feasible for they have ITTL model similar like this one?

Definitely possible for later on in the TL.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Lately, I also thought more about my TL's Western Maryland. I was thinking when the chessie is formed, they'd only buy up the part necessary to link the B&O and Reading. However, there is the question of who should get the rest, for which I think the best answer is the Erie Lackawanna.

Likewise, since the Chessie would mostly use the Reading for traffic out of New York and not to or from Philadelphia, I think @TheMann had a good idea when he suggested the NYC take over the Williamsport - Philly lines. Though the EL may itself take up the NYC Pennsylvania Division and that part of the Reading for the same motivations.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Now for some more railroad programs, only now from Jarrett-Scholl Productions: Created by TTL's 1988 merger of Greg Scholl Video and Railway Productions. Those who are mroe familiar with Pentrex may know them for the America By Rail Series.

Steam in the Autumn
The Fall is a special time of year with its falling leaves, and gorgeous Indian summer days. Ordinarily, steam locomotive excursions are winding down and preparing to close for the year with the tourist trade starting to wind down. However, there are still plenty of excellent places where on can savor a steam excursion running through the fall foliage one last time for the year before retirement for the winter. In Steam in the Autumn, we take you across the country to see some of most picturesque steam excursions that continue to run into the fall season:
- Follow Grand Trunk Western Mikado #4070 on an excursion through the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad, through the National Park of the same name.
- Virginia Creeper Scenic's ex-N&W Mastadons 382 and 429 work through the leaves of the rural South.
- Chesapeake & Ohio 4-8-4 #614 leads the annual New River Train excursions over native trackage in West Virginia from Huntington to Hinton and return. Special attention is given to Hawk's Nest, where we get an amazing view of the engine working hard in both directions.
- Chase the Strasburg Railroad's passenger trains behind ex-Great Western Decapod #90 and ex-Canadian National Mogul #89.
- The mountains of North Carolina hosts the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad, and its ex-USATC Consolidation #1702.
- In the south of Pennsylvania is the city of Mt. Union, where Amtrak services on the Pennsylvania Railroad mainline still link with the East Broad Top Railroad, which still runs excursions from March up until November over the portion of the original EBT network to Rockhill Furnace.
- Our final visit takes us the Erie Lackawanna's former Western Maryland line, where 2-10-0 #1125 leads an excursion through western Maryland from Cumberland to Frostburg then on to Westernport.

Steam in the Winter
The winter time is not a normal time for steam locomotive excursions to be happening. However, there are naturally exceptions given to various holiday seasons and special weekends. Following and photographing these rides truly invokes memories of the days of regular steam as we see some of these lovely scenes of smoke contrasting to snow:
- Reading #2102 leads a special Santa Train for the Steamtown NHS from Scranton over the Erie Lackawanna tracks through northeast Pennsylvania.
- Heber Valley's ex-Union Pacific #618 and Great Western #75, both 2-8-0s, leads special winter excursions over the former Rio Grande branch between Heber and Provo City.
- A trip on the Rio Grande narrow gauge around Durango makes for some excellent action in the snow.
- Washington's Mt. Rainer Scenic Railroad gives special rides behind 2-8-2 #5 during January.
- Nickel Plate Mikado #587 is leased for special winter trips on the Indiana Interstate Railroad's mainline between Indianapolis & Kokomo.
- Santa Fe #2925 is leased for a weekend to the Grand Canyon Railway for special excursions.
- Grand Trunk #5629 leads the annual Santa Trains on the Mid-Continent Railway Museum in Wisconsin.

The Trains of Marion
Marion, Ohio is one of the busiest railfan hotspots in the eastern US, and is notable for having activity from all four of the Midwest's rail network. In this program, you'll be treated to a tour of the city's key railroading locations. Much of the action is centered around Mario Union Station, which as of the original filming had been repurposed to serve as the northern terminus of the Columbus commuter service's "Chessie" service. We also see plenty of amazing shots of PRR coal trains from Columbus to the port of Sandusky, Chessie fast freights, and races between Erie Lackawanna and New York Central trains. Add in a few steam excursions and flashbacks to the city's railroad scenes in the Golden Age, and you have a perfect railfanning program. Order your copy today!

Narrow Gauge Adventure
Visit the wide and interesting variety of unique narrow gauge railroad lines that still operate across the United States.
- Our first segment takes us the Denver & Rio Grande's famous narrow gauge mainline from Antonito, CO to Durango, CO. Where our first train will have us follow 2-8-0 #315 as she leads the season's first excursion train alongside Mikado #488.
- Visit northern Indiana, where the Hesston Steam Museum has a unique variety of 3ft and 2ft gauge locomotives running a little loop around their property.
- Journey east to Pennsylvania, where the East Broad Top Railroad is running 2-6-2 Prairie type #11 alongside it usual roster of Mikados #12, #14, #15, and #17.
- In the backwoods of Northwest Maine, we are treated to the legendary 2ft gauge North Central Railway (loosely derived from @NHBL's ideas).
- We return west to the Rio Grande narrow gauge. Only this time, for a ride behind one of the treasures of steam railroading, Eureka & Palisade 4-4-0 #4 Eureka.
- Pay a visit to Flint, MI and the Huckleberry Railroad, where Southern Pacific #18 has found her new home.
- Finish off with the Midwest Central Railroad, and a ride behind Shay #9.

Riding Along Santa Fe 2925
Most will agree that fewer steamers draw more crowds than a big 4-8-4, and Santa Fe 2925 is the largest one in operation. In this program, we follow 2009 coverage of the 2925 on a series of excursions she made all across the ATSF system to celebrate the railroad's 150th anniversary. Enjoy her double-heading with 2-10-4 #5021 from Santa Fe all the way over Raton Pass to Trinidad, CO. As well as additional doubleheaders with fellow ATSF 4-8-4 #3751 on the Surf Line to San Diego and ex-Frisco Mountain #1522 from St. Louis to Springfield. Then, watch her on a solo run from Cleburne, TX to Temple, TX and return, as well as a solo run from Kansas City to Ft. Madison, IA. If you're a fan of Santa Fe or the 2925, this is a definite recommend for you. Order your copy today.

Rio Grande's Front Range Line
Despite not having the same iconic nature as their mainline through the Rockies to Utah, the Rio Grande's Front Range Line from Denver to Santa Fe is still an artery that's excellent for rail-fanning. As a 100% Diesel operation, you'll spend hours watching the black and yellow diesels make their way through Colorado and New Mexico. Including actions at such places as Pueblo, the Narrow Gauge junction at Antonito, and down the Chili Line to Santa Fe. If you're in to diesels on western railroads, this is a definite recommend. Order your copy today!

Pennsy Panhandle Parade
One of the busiest mainlines in modern times is the Pennsylvania Railroad's Panhandle line from Pittsburgh to St. Louis. In this program, we follow the Panhandle line in its entirety, sampling every kind of freight train that runs over the line along the way. Also included are scenes of behind the scenes operations in dispatching yards, junctions, and other major portions of the line. If you want a different flavor of the Pennsy from the usual electrics hauling in the mountains, then this is a definite recommend.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Wisconsin Central, Iowa Interstate[1], Montana Rail Link, Texas and Pacific, New England Central, Oregon and Pacific and Indiana Interstate

@TheMann

I know the first three of these lines are real ones from OTL, but what do the last four look like? I ask since my own idea for an Indiana class II could be the Indiana Interstate in my TL.

 

[TheMann]

The Texas and Pacific is a Class II regional that operates from the Mexican border to Dallas, Amarillo and San Antonio on former MoPac lines and a section of new-build primarily to act as a gateway between Mexico and the DRGW at Amarillo and the BN at Fort Worth.

New England Central is the former Central Vermont as well as ex-New Haven lines to Boston and Hartford and the former Rutland through Vermont. The line's largest shareholder is CN and the majority of interchange traffic goes to and from them, but the NEC has gotten very good indeed at develop on-line traffic
sources and handles intermodal and hotshot traffic to Boston from Canada in modern times.

The Oregon and Pacific is the operator of SP's former Northwestern Pacific lines, and while much of the Siskiyou Pass route is now owned by CN, they have trackage rights on CN and SP as far as Portland and Roseville. This route does include the Coos Bay line. The line lives and dies in lumber and paper products, but does operate a sizable amount of interchange traffic from the Western Pacific in California up to the Canadian Pacific at Portland.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

The Texas and Pacific is a Class II regional that operates from the Mexican border to Dallas, Amarillo and San Antonio on former MoPac lines and a section of new-build primarily to act as a gateway between Mexico and the DRGW at Amarillo and the BN at Fort Worth.

New England Central is the former Central Vermont as well as ex-New Haven lines to Boston and Hartford and the former Rutland through Vermont. The line's largest shareholder is CN and the majority of interchange traffic goes to and from them, but the NEC has gotten very good indeed at develop on-line traffic
sources and handles intermodal and hotshot traffic to Boston from Canada in modern times.

The Oregon and Pacific is the operator of SP's former Northwestern Pacific lines, and while much of the Siskiyou Pass route is now owned by CN, they have trackage rights on CN and SP as far as Portland and Roseville. This route does include the Coos Bay line. The line lives and dies in lumber and paper products, but does operate a sizable amount of interchange traffic from the Western Pacific in California up to the Canadian Pacific at Portland.

It seems most of those will sadly have to butterflied in my TL (except possibly New England Central, but what about Indiana Interstate?

 

[TheMann]

Trees, Tracks and Tonnage
Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec is an interesting world of a tree-covered rocky landscape, dotted with small cities, hydroelectric dams, hard-rock mines and industrial facilities, with a vast web of roads, power lines and railroads across the landscape with CNR and CPR, along with the Algoma Central Railway and Ontario Northland, providing many unique rail services as well as the vast transcontinental loads and millions of carloads every year of steel, aluminum, quarried stone, minerals, lumber, paper products, fresh Hudson Bay fish and the vast supplies meant for the people and businesses that inhabit the beautiful region. The eclectic diesel fleets of the Algoma Central and Ontario Northland mix with the vast electric fleets of CN and CP, and the unique passenger services such as the ACR's Black Bear and the ONR's Northlander add to Via Rail Canada's Great Canadian Fleet trains, showing off the landscape to the world.

Great Canadian Fleets
With a large population scattered across one of the world's largest landmasses, Via Rail Canada's job of moving passengers across such a huge landmass is one the company has been working at for decades. From the flagship stainless-steel Canadian to the remarkable long-distance Super Continental, Ocean, Atlantica and Pacifica, the multiple high-speed lines in Canada and numerous "City Hopper" regional services and tourist trains like the Northern Light, Bluenose, Rocky Mountaineer and Newfoundlander, Via Rail Canada does it all and does it all with style and efficiency the likes of which are seldom rivaled anywhere on Earth. Ride First Class on the Canadian, see the Northern Lights from the Yukon, experience nearly 200 miles per hour on the high speed lines of southern Ontario and discover the vast operations Via uses to keep its trains clean, well stocked, modern and comfortable.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Peoria Rails
Despite not having the same railway infamy as Chicago, the area around the city of Peoria is still host to all sorts of interesting railroad scenes. Most notably, it is home to the Toledo, Peoria, & Western and home to several other regional carriers. We also get another big player in the form of the Illinois Central, which links up with the former M&StL in this city. Also featured is the Erie Lackawanna's former Nickel Plate and the NYC's secondary line to Indianapolis.

The Indiana Interstate: A First Look
Running from Michigan City to Cairo in southern Illinois, the Indiana Interstate is a route that feels perpetually stuck in the early 90s in all the best ways. Early ALCO Milluniums and SD40s make up most of the blue and green fleet, which runs across former Nickel Plate, PRR, and NYC tracks with the freight. Also featured is the Hooiser State's commuter line from Indinapolis to Tipton, and occasional excursions behind the railroad's three Chinese JS Mikados.

Chessie Electrics
Despite not evoking the same association with electrics as the PRR, the Chessie does make some rather heavy use of electrics in the east. Most notably on the former Reading from Jersey City to Harrisburg then the junction with the old B&O, but also on the old B&O itself from Washington DC to Cumberland, then either Pittsburgh or Parkersburg. This program takes us to see some of the action on all of these parts of the Chessie.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

Lately, I've been wondering what my next step in the new rail TL should be now that the Santa Fe reaches its namesake city directly.

So far, I've thought of the Rio Grande going west to California instead of south to Mexico. So perhaps i could do that and have then stopped in Southern Nevada. Waiting for the SP to enter the scene soon after.

 

[isayyo2]

Lately, I've been wondering what my next step in the new rail TL should be now that the Santa Fe reaches its namesake city directly.

So far, I've thought of the Rio Grande going west to California instead of south to Mexico. So perhaps i could do that and have then stopped in Southern Nevada. Waiting for the SP to enter the scene soon after.

I'd recommend the DRGW and the WP build out the proposed "Mid-Pacific Railroad" through Nevada and then down south to Los Angeles. Perhaps some trackage rights down to San Diego too? It'd be neat to have them become an early, big diesel adopter before the war since water isn't too plentiful in Nevada. From Beatty, NV they could head back east to Las Vegas over another abandoned rail-line.

 

[Duke Andrew of Dank]

I'd recommend the DRGW and the WP build out the proposed "Mid-Pacific Railroad" through Nevada and then down south to Los Angeles. Perhaps some trackage rights down to San Diego too? It'd be neat to have them become an early, big diesel adopter before the war since water isn't too plentiful in Nevada.

On one hand, I can see the WP doing that themselves, but OTOH the Rio Grand would likely prefer the chance to have a more direct line by simply extending the Marysvale Branch. Though this could happen in the 1900s of the TL if the WP is successful enough, as could its own route north to Portland.