This is your quote
One wonders how the Union is able to fight those battles without bullets, gunpowder or, ironically, guns themselves. In reality, Canada would see up to 100,000 British and Canadians troops, able to best any force the Union sends to them while the Federal navy is confined to port due to dearth of gunpowder and their innate inability to even damage the British ironclads; tests performed with the 11" Dahlgren found that, even with double charge, it could not pierce 4.5" forged plate backed by 20" of oak.
Warrior, however, did not even use forged plate but, instead, rolled plate, making its armor even more effective.
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Belisarius II said:
Your arguments about economics take into account only one side of the ledger. Your only thinking about British, and American imports not exports. You say the British could replace American Wheat, and the Union needed British Lead, and Nitrates. What you forgetting is the British lose of exports. They were making a lot of money by trading with the Union, and war would cut that off. Business interests didn't want a war with the Union. The British may have found other sources of wheat, at much higher prices, but so would the union find nitrates, and lead at higher prices. American has lots of Batcaves, and lead was found in several areas under Union control.
Your quote
By all means, do provide us citations for all of this.
My Reply
Don't you think the Americans were paying for what they were buying? You do understand supply, and demand? If American Wheat was cheaper then European Wheat, and then is taken off the market what would happen to the price of imported wheat in Britain? Nitrates were found in West Virginia, and Kentucky, and was imported from Chile. Lead was mined in Missouri, Idaho, and Illinois.
ZINC AND LEAD DISTRICTS OF ILLINOIS. Zinc and lead minerals are found in two widely separated districts in Illinois. One of these occurs in the extreme southern portion of the State and includes portions of Hardin, Pope, and Saline counties. It forms part of the Kentucky-Illinois fluorspar, lead, and zinc field, and for convenience may be referred to as the Southern Illinois district. The other occurs in the- extreme northwestern portion of the State and includes a part of Jo Daviess County. It is included in the upper Mississippi Valley zinc and lead field and may be conveniently referred to as the Northwestern Illinois district. This district forms the subject of this paper. . Southern Illinois district.—The Southern Illinois district has never yielded zinc in commercial quantity, though small amounts of both blende and smithsonite have been found at a number of points. From that part of the field which occupies the adjacent portion of Kentucky zinc ore has for several years been shipped. The ore has been found- in quantity at only one or two points, and up to the present nothing has been found north of the Ohio which would warrant development. Lead has been mined More or less steadily since 1842, but for some years the output has been small and irregular. Probably the maximum production . was in 1866-67, when 176,387 pounds were shipped by the Fairview mine. The principal ore of the southern district is-fluorspar, and the production of lead is incidental. A separate discussion of the fluorspar deposits is now in preparation, and it will be sufficient to indicate here the author's opinion that important amounts of zinc and lead ores are not likely to be found in
My reply
In the Spring of 1863 the RN had 4 Ironclads, and the French had 6. The Union had 9, with 9 under construction, with no rush on them, Impending war with Britain would speed them up. The USN is fighting in home waters, and can build iron casement ships, or convert existing ships. Not all of the RN/FM Ironclad's would be sent over the Atlantic, neither the British or French really trusted each other, and both had other global commitments. The British Breechloading guns on their Ironclads were defective, and less effective then their 64 lb. smoothbores. The 6.5" guns of the French Ironclads proved ineffective vs. armor.
Your quote
This too, given we know in 1861 the Royal Navy had
Terror, Glatton, Trusty, Thunderbolt, Erebus, Aetna, and
Thunder. That's seven off the top of my head, so I honestly have no idea how you have the idea there was just four. I also have no idea how you have the idea their cannons are bad, given the 68 pound is the main armament on the Warrior, for example, and had better penetration than the 11" Dahlgren.
My reply
The vessels your referring to were floating batteries, what I'm referring to are ocean going ironclads. I didn't say the 64 pounder was a bad gun, I said the breechloaders were. The 11" Dahlgren's using half charges nearly broke the armor plates lose from their wooden backings on the CSS Virginia. The Passaic Class Monitors carried 1 or 2 15" Dahlgren's, or Rodman's, firing a 440 lb. solid shot. The glaring fault of first generation British Ironclads were their unarmored forward, and aft ends. Only the gun deck was armored, protecting a little over half the length of the ship, 213' of Warrior's about 380' along the waterline, 420' overall. If Warrior had ever entered combat she could have suffered serious damage.
In 1861, the population of ‘Canada’ was 3,295,706 people. Based on the 1861 Census and the Newfoundland Census of 1858, the fastest-growing province was Upper Canada, or Ontario, at a rate of 4.34% a year, followed by the Colony of New Brunswick, at 2.60%.
My comment
Almost 1 million of these were French Canadians. The British dispatched 11,000 troops to Canada in 1861. It's hard to imagine Canada had 90,000 troops in 1863. The British didn't consider Canada very well defended, or defensible.
My source
s. In the fall of 1863, Lieutenant Colonel W!.F.D. Jervois of the Royal Engineers visited Canada and prepared an extensive report on the defences of Canada. The major centres of fortification were at Quebec and Kingston but there were British troops scattered 1n garrisons further west. Jervois felt t hat it would be impossible to achieve naval superiority on the Upper Lakes and on Lake Erie and that it would only be possible on Lake Ontario if the canals were enlarged to allow ironclads to co me up the St. Lawrence. Without control of Lake nta~io, no defence of Canada West could be possible and the garrisons should be withdrawn to Canada East and concentrated at Montreal. lbe defence of Montreal was essential to Canadian defence for the capture of the city, only a few score miles from the American border, would sever communications with the interior and cut off the retreat of any forces stationed there.
Canadians were largely opposed to slavery, and Canada had recently become the terminus of the
Underground Railroad. Close economic and cultural links across the long border also encouraged Canadian sympathy towards the
Union. Between 33,000 and 55,000 men from British North America enlisted in the war, almost all of them fighting for Union forces. Some press and churches in Canada supported the secession and some others not.
[2] There was talk in London in 1861–62 of mediating the war or recognizing the Confederacy. Washington warned this meant war, and London feared Canada would quickly be seized by the North.
[3]
The Civil War period was one of booming economic growth for the BNA colonies. The war in the United States created a huge market for Canada's agricultural and manufactured goods, most of which went to the Union. Maritime ship builders and owners prospered in the wartime trade boom.
My comment
Canadians had no interest in a war with the United States, for the Confederacy.