Sterling is not the sten. take away the grips, a functional stock or a proper frontal handhold and add a notoriously bad magazine you are left with something that may be cheap but I'd certainly don't want to use. M3 is at least something designed for a user that is recognizably human.
Sterling is not the sten. take away the grips, a functional stock or a proper frontal handhold and add a notoriously bad magazine you are left with something that may be cheap but I'd certainly don't want to use. M3 is at least something designed for a user that is recognizably human.
I would take it over a bolt action rifle - the Sten for most situations (given that most infantry combat happened at or under 100m) is good enough and with its select fire more useful in some situations than other SMGs that lacked a select fire feature and in virtually any situation better than a Bolt action rifle.
It never shook off its reliability reputation that plagued early Stens - the main issue was the crap German MP38 magazine design with its single feed - later ones with better quality finish were okay - it worked well enough and allowed the British to arm their military quickly and cheaply with a working SMG.
Built in such large numbers that a given Battalion was often supplied with hundreds of them and the usual action was to work through them and weed out the Monday morning and Friday afternoon built ones and return them to whence they came.
That all being said I would have picked pretty much any other SMG over it if there was a choice - however there was not a choice in May 1940 the British units in France had roughly 3 Thompson SMGs per Battalion (issued to patrols) and they each cost more than 2 X Bren guns to purchase and thats without the compensator device.
The German Army had about 30+ SMGs per battalion at the same time IIRC
By 1942 a British Battalion had several hundred SMGs per battalion (usually 2 or 3 per section)
Deleted member 1487
Edit: 72% at 200m or less on average:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/range.html
50% up to ~160m
marathag
Banned
Always wondered why they didn't use a scaled down Thompson doublestack magazine design for the STEN. Thompson had versions in 38 Super
Because the sten was a haste project born out of desperation that took the only simple Simple SMG design the British had access to (MP28) and simplified it into something they could churn out quick. Redesigning the feed system to accept new magazines would take time they did not have, which is why they ended up with the crappiest SMG in the war compared to its counterparts and once the panic died down they had so many that they couldn't really justify making a new one.
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Probably the best Sten to fire was the MK IV which had a wooden stock, pistol grip and fore grip.
marathag
Banned
Everything else on the STEN was new, and the Royal Navy wasn't allowing any Lanchester SMG to be transferred, so why use that as a basis? The Thompson stick mags _worked_ just needed to adjust dimensions from the 38 Super* magazine, with the 9mm being slightly shorter.
*= Insert another rant on why to use the 9mm for the STEN anyway? Kynoch would have to setup new lines for any ammunition, so going to 9mm didn't really save any time, so pick a cartridge with a little more oomph.
I think Gunner Teed said it best
Ode to a Sten Gun
By Gunner. S.N. Teed
You wicked piece of vicious tin!
Call you a gun? Don't make me grin.
You're just a bloated piece of pipe.
You couldn't hit a hunk of tripe.
But when you're with me in the night,
I'll tell you pal, you're just alright!
Each day I wipe you free of dirt.
Your dratted corners tear my shirt.
I cuss at you and call you names,
You're much more trouble than my dames.
But boy, do I love to hear you yammer
When you 're spitting lead in a business manner.
You conceited pile of salvage junk.
I think this prowess talk is bunk.
Yet if I want a wall of lead
Thrown at some Jerry's head
It is to you I raise my hat;
You're a damn good pal...
You silly gat!
Ode to a Sten Gun
By Gunner. S.N. Teed
You wicked piece of vicious tin!
Call you a gun? Don't make me grin.
You're just a bloated piece of pipe.
You couldn't hit a hunk of tripe.
But when you're with me in the night,
I'll tell you pal, you're just alright!
Each day I wipe you free of dirt.
Your dratted corners tear my shirt.
I cuss at you and call you names,
You're much more trouble than my dames.
But boy, do I love to hear you yammer
When you 're spitting lead in a business manner.
You conceited pile of salvage junk.
I think this prowess talk is bunk.
Yet if I want a wall of lead
Thrown at some Jerry's head
It is to you I raise my hat;
You're a damn good pal...
You silly gat!
Nice to know that they were calling Stens 'gats' even then. L2A3 were 'gats' and L1A1s were 'bunduqs' during my little service. The L4A4 never had a name. Just 'LMG' Certainly never called a Bren even though it was.
Gats, Bunduqs, LMG, Gimpy, Charlie G. I am not sure if many actually knew the proper designations. But I digress from the OP. Again.
Gats, Bunduqs, LMG, Gimpy, Charlie G. I am not sure if many actually knew the proper designations. But I digress from the OP. Again.
I believe that when Wavells 30 thousand had done their thing vs the Italians they ended up with literally ship loads of Italian 9mm ammo.
And pretty much everyone in Europe was using it!
Www.forgottenweapons.com recently did an episode on development of British SMGs, from the perspective of magazines.
It starts with RAF and RN fforts to panic-produce a simplified MP28 Bergman: the heavy, beautifully machined Lanchester Since they had no time for development, they simply copied the MP28’s single-stack magazine exactly.
STEN was a second attempt at a panic-SMG better suited to sub-contracting to smaller shops. Again, panic-production prevented developing a better magazine. Manchester and STEN magazines were inter-changeable. STEN Mark I was overly-complex with poorly-matching parts made by dozens of different shops.
Oh!
Everyone’s Mark I has problems.
OTOH by 1950, any STEN had been “ridden hard and put away wet.”
Britain’s first new-design SMG was the late-war Patchet/Sterling with arguably the best SMG magazine ever!
In a Canada-wank, I proposed a STEN, bull pup, personal defence weapon with a 19” barrel and a magazine that folded to stow parallel to the barrel - like contemporary French SMGs.
It starts with RAF and RN fforts to panic-produce a simplified MP28 Bergman: the heavy, beautifully machined Lanchester Since they had no time for development, they simply copied the MP28’s single-stack magazine exactly.
STEN was a second attempt at a panic-SMG better suited to sub-contracting to smaller shops. Again, panic-production prevented developing a better magazine. Manchester and STEN magazines were inter-changeable. STEN Mark I was overly-complex with poorly-matching parts made by dozens of different shops.
Oh!
Everyone’s Mark I has problems.
OTOH by 1950, any STEN had been “ridden hard and put away wet.”
Britain’s first new-design SMG was the late-war Patchet/Sterling with arguably the best SMG magazine ever!
In a Canada-wank, I proposed a STEN, bull pup, personal defence weapon with a 19” barrel and a magazine that folded to stow parallel to the barrel - like contemporary French SMGs.