No Barbarossa

[The Red]

In May 1941 Hitler is persuaded that Operation Barbarossa is very flawed with Britain still in the fight and it being too ambitious.

So Hitler decides to concentrate on crushing Britain whilst building defensive fortifications on the eastern front.

What would happen? Could he take the middle east,crush Britian and win the war?

 

[BlackWave]

Hasn't this been done already? Anyway, he can't take Britain without serious naval expansion, which is probably not doable, and this will need a much more rational Hitler willing to ignore years of previous rhetoric.

 

[The Red]

Hasn't this been done already?

It probably has but i've never seen it. Hitler's Meditterenean Strategy probably counts but Barbarossa still happens in 1942.

Anyway, he can't take Britain without serious naval expansion, which is probably not doable, and this will need a much more rational Hitler willing to ignore years of previous rhetoric.

There are other ways to take Britain. If German concentrated al its efforts on the Med along with Japan in the pacific and an all out Luftwaffe blitz the British could break.

 

[Astrodragon]

It probably has but i've never seen it. Hitler's Meditterenean Strategy probably counts but Barbarossa still happens in 1942.





There are other ways to take Britain. If German concentrated al its efforts on the Med along with Japan in the pacific and an all out Luftwaffe blitz the British could break.

And the Americans and Russians are doing what, precisely?

If Japan attacks in the Pacific, its going to be the Americans first, so the USA is involved - even if, given this assumed more activity against the UK, a shooting war hasn't broken out in the Atlantic already...
And just how long will it take the Germans to ramp the number of U-boats significantly up from their OTL buildup? I dont think they could have increased the number much before mid-42, they are already in a huge U-boat expansion program. They could build more surface ships, but these take far too long to build to be useful.

And Stalin was planning to attack Germany - a Germany involved in the west in 42 would be ideal for him. Especialy seeing how many planes the Luftwaffe would lose in a 2nd BoB...and the tanks the Germans arent building because they are buidling ships...and the forces sent to the Med (where British subs will happily sink everything that comes their way...)

While it may look good on paper, the UK-first option actually isnt a good option for Germany, because they cant trust Russia to sit around and do nothing. Also, in 1941 they are actually going to have to find the hard currency to pay the Russians for all those raw materials they've been getting..oops, they don't have it..!

 

[The Red]

And the Americans and Russians are doing what, precisely?

If Japan attacks in the Pacific, its going to be the Americans first, so the USA is involved - even if, given this assumed more activity against the UK, a shooting war hasn't broken out in the Atlantic already...
And just how long will it take the Germans to ramp the number of U-boats significantly up from their OTL buildup? I dont think they could have increased the number much before mid-42, they are already in a huge U-boat expansion program. They could build more surface ships, but these take far too long to build to be useful.

True

And Stalin was planning to attack Germany - a Germany involved in the west in 42 would be ideal for him. Especialy seeing how many planes the Luftwaffe would lose in a 2nd BoB...and the tanks the Germans arent building because they are buidling ships...and the forces sent to the Med (where British subs will happily sink everything that comes their way...).

Stalin couldn't have suceeded in attacking Germany in 1942. By 1943 the Red Army would probably be ready to attack.

And the Germans could invade Malta like they did Crete in this TL theoretically.

While it may look good on paper, the UK-first option actually isnt a good option for Germany, because they cant trust Russia to sit around and do nothing. Also, in 1941 they are actually going to have to find the hard currency to pay the Russians for all those raw materials they've been getting..oops, they don't have it..!

Indeed they can count on 2 years of peace at least though.

I'm not looking for a Nazi wank I very much believe this would be a Nazi screw I just want to see what other think.

 

[FlyingDutchman]

While it may look good on paper, the UK-first option actually isnt a good option for Germany, because they cant trust Russia to sit around and do nothing. Also, in 1941 they are actually going to have to find the hard currency to pay the Russians for all those raw materials they've been getting..oops, they don't have it..!

Agree.
Germany is a landpower and a Britain first or Med first strategy doesn't play into their strengths and more importantly their needs.

By '41 the Soviets were starting to demand more and more as payment for their raw materials. The Germans can't comply with those demands without weakening themselves and strenthening the Soviets.

As long as there's a dictator behind the wheel in both Germany and the SU, this can only end one way; war.
The longer that war is postponed after May/June '41, the weaker the Germans will be/stronger the Soviets will be.

Besides, even with a Med first strategy it's questionable if the Axis can succeed in taking Gibralter or Suez.
Untill the Axis manages to take Alexandria they only have enough capacity in harbors to supply a handfull of divisions.
With at most a handfull of divisions they can't succeed in taking both Alexandria and preventing the Allies from landing anywhere behind their lines...

Raeder was an advocate of the Med first strategy mostly because it played into his hands and would mean the Kriegsmarine would get enormous amounts of funds and materials.

 

[bobbis14]

Isn't the Eastern front to big to fortify? and if so doesnt that take up tons of German troops? How will Germany react in the middle of taking down Britain when Russia attacks, and the war is on German captured territory?

How do you defeat Britain, Hitler was pretty determined to bomb cities instead of Airfields and as you know not many people disagreed with him for long (plus RN supiriority).

Wouldn't attacking the Mid East waste more resources and even more thinly spread them? Britain would also be able to call in colonial troops to stop the advance