Nicholas II daughters British Queen after failed revolution

[Deleted member 170004]

If Nicholas II stayed in power until after WW I ? Pls assume it

Could his daughters Marry Edward VIII or Geroge VI and become British Queen ?

Will George V and British royals ignore haemophilia and bad PR in UK of autocrat Nicholas?

Even if children born
Can this marriage stop Wallis Simpson and abdication or will he divorce anyway? Like Carol of Romania and cause a succession crisis of child with
Nicholas II's daughter as Queen Mother


Can it lead to better Anglo Russian alliance in WW2?

 

[Tresckow]

Queen-consort yes, but never the sovereign.

Russia being a monarchy changes World War II as we know it, assuming it even happens like our timeline. One of the biggest motivations for Nazism was the perceived threat of "Judeo-Bolshevism," and without the Soviets, the Germans will not see the Nazis come to power like they did in our timeline. They could be in a coalition government (assuming they still manage to get into the Reichstag) as part of a revanchist-nationalist-reactionary takeover during the Great Depression, but that government would be Prussian and aristocrat-dominated, which was the antithesis of what many old-guard Nazis wanted. You had some, like Goering, who were more pro-aristocrat and pro-monarchy, but Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and Roehm were not in favor of going back to the old days of the monarchy. Germany will either become a military dictatorship led by one of the heroes of the Great War, a restored Kaiserreich with Wilhelm II back on the throne and someone like Alfred Hugenberg as chancellor, or a restored Kaiserreich with Wilhelm II restrained by a military dictatorship. And this nationalistic Germany will be much more cautious trying to take back its former territories than Nazi Germany ever was. The Polish corridor would probably be their focus, taking back Danzig and German-majority regions of Poland. I think they'd go about this diplomatically unless it is clear that Poland will not cave and the Entente will not intervene in favor of Poland.

It is possible that one of Nicholas' daughters is betrothed to Prince Edward on the insistence of his father (who was very aware of how incontinent his son was), and Edward stays on the throne until his death, which means that Elizabeth II never becomes queen and one of Edward's ATL children becomes sovereign. But given that the monarchy is ceremonial by 1936, the only changes that this will have on Britain is that we will never have the fantastic film The King's Speech and Queen Victoria still holds the title as longest reigning sovereign in British history.

Now, there is a chance one of his daughters marries a member of the German imperial family, namely Prince Wilhelm, which would change who would become Kaiser in the future. If Wilhelm II pressures his grandson into marrying a noble rather than a commoner, and if the restoration seems more likely without the Nazis, Prince Wilhelm will not renounce the throne and ascend as Kaiser Wilhelm IV when his father passes.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

If Nicholas II stayed in power until after WW I ? Pls assume it

Could his daughters Marry Edward VIII or Geroge VI and become British Queen ?

Can this marriage stop Wallis Simpson and abdication or will he divorce anyway?

Can it lead to better Anglo Russian alliance in WW2?

No.
King George and Queen Mary were aware of haemophilia and the fact the Tsarevich was a sufferer, which meant that his sisters could be carriers.
King George's cousin Alice (of Albany) daughter of Leopold, Duke of Albany the original sufferer in the family married Queen Mary's brother Alexander. Two of their sons died of haemophilia. George and Mary saw the tragedy it caused in their own immediate family, in Spain and in Russia.
Why would they sacrifice the future of their dynasty?
Royal marriages no longer translated into political alliances by this time.

 

[Deleted member 170004]

Queen-consort yes, but never the sovereign.

It is possible that one of Nicholas' daughters is betrothed to Prince Edward on the insistence of his father (who was very aware of how incontinent his son was),

Will George V and British royals ignore haemophilia and bad PR in UK of autocrat Nicholas?


Wallis Simpson?

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

King and Joker (1976) by Peter Dickinson is an "alternate mystery", taking place in Buckingham Palace and involving the members of an alternate royal family. The King is Victor II, grandson of Victor I, the eldest son of Edward VII (OTL's Prince Albert Victor). Victor I's son never reigned; he died in a yacht fire circa 1934. His young son succeeded a few years later, becoming famous as "the boy King of the Blitz". The Dowager Princess of Wales is still around; she is an exiled Russian Grand Duchess. I don't recall if she is a Romanov; probably not, now that I think about it, as there are no changes in history except as regarding the British royal family.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

No.
King George and Queen Mary were aware of haemophilia and the fact the Tsarevich was a sufferer, which meant that his sisters could be carriers.
...
Why would they sacrifice the future of their dynasty?

Good point. Though ironically, the haemophilia came through the Tsaritsa Alexandra, who inherited it from from her grandmother Queen Victoria.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Good point. Though ironically, the haemophilia came through the Tsaritsa Alexandra, who inherited it from from her grandmother Queen Victoria.

Exactly, the main British line had managed to escape it so absolutely zero reason to reintroduce the risk.

Moreover, the Tsar and Russian regime was extremely unpopular in the UK and even if he had managed to put down the revolution, it would have likely only damaged his reputation further as it seems unlikely he would have managed to do it in a peaceful/democratic way.

On a related point, while there is an obsession on these boards with a Romanov/Windsor marriage, it ignores a couple of other facts even ignoring the haemophilia issue:

i) 1917 - George V told the Privy Council of his intention to allow his children to marry British subjects. This was a direct consequence of the criticism he faced for his German ancestry. Forcing/encouraging his sons to marry Russian grand duchesses, daughters of a despot was completely contradictory to this approach and would have riled the rising British left, who George V did a great deal to show solidarity with;
ii) The last truly grand dynastic marriage of a British monarch was Charles II. Subsequent British monarchs tended to marry minor German princesses, there was no tradition of grand dynastic alliances for British princes, it was never needed. George V had married Mary of Teck, a morganaut descendant who was considered unmarriageable by many European royal houses;
iii) The same can also be said of senior Russian grand duchesses, Nicholas's sisters had married a junior Russian Grand Duke and a German duke who lived in Russia respectively. Based on various books on the Romanovs, Olga was dead set about not leaving Russia (she had made it clear in 1914 she wouldn't marry the Crown Prince of Romania). Had the Grand Duchesses survived, I suspect one of them may have nabbed a Balkan crown prince where the cache of marrying the Tsar's daughter may have been worth the risk but the future King/Emperor of the British Emperor had no need to take such a risk.

 

[Deleted member 170004]

King and Joker (1976) by Peter Dickinson is an "alternate mystery", taking place in Buckingham Palace and involving the members of an alternate royal family. The King is Victor II, grandson of Victor I, the eldest son of Edward VII (OTL's Prince Albert Victor). Victor I's son never reigned; he died in a yacht fire circa 1934. His young son succeeded a few years later, becoming famous as "the boy King of the Blitz". The Dowager Princess of Wales is still around; she is an exiled Russian Grand Duchess. I don't recall if she is a Romanov; probably not, now that I think about it, as there are no changes in history except as regarding the British royal family.

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

 

[Deleted member 170004]

Exactly, the main British line had managed to escape it so absolutely zero reason to reintroduce the risk.

Moreover, the Tsar and Russian regime was extremely unpopular in the UK and even if he had managed to put down the revolution, it would have likely only damaged his reputation further as it seems unlikely he would have managed to do it in a peaceful/democratic way.

On a related point, while there is an obsession on these boards with a Romanov/Windsor marriage, it ignores a couple of other facts even ignoring the haemophilia issue:

i) 1917 - George V told the Privy Council of his intention to allow his children to marry British subjects. This was a direct consequence of the criticism he faced for his German ancestry. Forcing/encouraging his sons to marry Russian grand duchesses, daughters of a despot was completely contradictory to this approach and would have riled the rising British left, who George V did a great deal to show solidarity with;
ii) The last truly grand dynastic marriage of a British monarch was Charles II. Subsequent British monarchs tended to marry minor German princesses, there was no tradition of grand dynastic alliances for British princes, it was never needed. George V had married Mary of Teck, a morganaut descendant who was considered unmarriageable by many European royal houses;
iii) The same can also be said of senior Russian grand duchesses, Nicholas's sisters had married a junior Russian Grand Duke and a German duke who lived in Russia respectively. Based on various books on the Romanovs, Olga was dead set about not leaving Russia (she had made it clear in 1914 she wouldn't marry the Crown Prince of Romania). Had the Grand Duchesses survived, I suspect one of them may have nabbed a Balkan crown prince where the cache of marrying the Tsar's daughter may have been worth the risk but the future King/Emperor of the British Emperor had no need to take such a risk.

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

 

[Pelranius]

If the Romanovs stay in power, they probably won't be too eager to marry off one of Nicky's daughters to a non Orthodox man (especially she might have to convert).

 

[Deleted member 170004]

If the Romanovs stay in power, they probably won't be too eager to marry off one of Nicky's daughters to a non Orthodox man (especially she might have to convert).

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

It seems you do not understand what Dickinson did. In his TL, Prince Albert Victor did not die young. He married Mary of Teck, to whom he was engaged. OTL, after his death, she married his brother who became George V, and they were the parents of Edward VIII and George VI. But none of that happened in Dickinson's TL.

In his TL, Albert Clarence succeeded to the throne as Victor I, and had a son (whose name I don't recall) who became Prince of Wales. The Prince married an exiled Russian Grand Duchess, and they had a son. Due to the tragic death of the Prince of Wales, that son succeeded to the throne as a boy, reigning as Victor II, and is still reigning at the time of the story, in 1976.

Is that clear now?

 

[Deleted member 170004]

It seems you do not understand what Dickinson did. In his TL, Prince Albert Victor did not die young. He married Mary of Teck, to whom he was engaged. OTL, after his death, she married his brother who became George V, and they were the parents of Edward VIII and George VI. But none of that happened in Dickinson's TL.

In his TL, Albert Clarence succeeded to the throne as Victor I, and had a son (whose name I don't recall) who became Prince of Wales. The Prince married an exiled Russian Grand Duchess, and they had a son. Due to the tragic death of the Prince of Wales, that son succeeded to the throne as a boy, reigning as Victor II, and is still reigning at the time of the story, in 1976.

Is that clear now?

no
It seems you do not understand what i asked
Assuming POD 1920 Edward VIII weds Nicholas II's daughter and has kids

would Edward VIII still abdicate and divorce for wallis simpson ?

i want to get a succesion crisis of child with Nicholas II's daughter as Queen Mother

Carol II of Romania did that and his ex-wife became Queen mother

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

If the Romanovs stay in power, they probably won't be too eager to marry off one of Nicky's daughters to a non Orthodox man (especially she might have to convert).

I don't think the daughters of Nicholas II were particularly attractive for the reasons already explained but I am not sure religion was a feature of why they make less than glittering marriages. Many Grand duchesses married into Protestant German houses, the only Grand Duchess who married into the British royal house (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Maria_Alexandrovna_of_Russia) kept her faith but raised her children as Anglican.

 

[Deleted member 170004]

I don't think the daughters of Nicholas II were particularly attractive for the reasons already explained but I am not sure religion was a feature of why they make less than glittering marriages. Many Grand duchesses married into Protestant German houses, the only Grand Duchess who married into the British royal house (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Maria_Alexandrovna_of_Russia) kept her faith but raised her children as Anglican.

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

 

[Aphrodite]

Nicholas isn't marrying off his daughters to anyone. When approached on this by both the Serbs and Romanians, he was absolutely clear that his daughters would marry by choice.

 

[Deleted member 170004]

Nicholas isn't marrying off his daughters to anyone. When approached on this by both the Serbs and Romanians, he was absolutely clear that his daughters would marry by choice.

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

It seems you do not understand what i asked
Assuming POD 1920 Edward VIII weds Nicholas II's daughter and has kids

If that is what you asking about, then why did you post this as a response to my posting about a fictional AH in which Edward VIII never existed?

I note that you have posted this identical query as response to several other postings in this thread, to all of which it is irrelevant. Please stop.

 

[Deleted member 170004]

If that is what you asking about, then why did you post this as a response to my posting about a fictional AH in which Edward VIII never existed?

I note that you have posted this identical query as response to several other postings in this thread, to all of which it is irrelevant. Please stop.

ok
but do you have any ideas on my query ?

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Assuming marriage happens and children born
will Edward VIII divorce and abdicate anyway? Like Carol II of Romania

Queen Mary was supposed to have said in response to the abdication crisis "This is not Romania" in reference to Carol II.

The British establishment was almost entirely opposed to the idea of King Edward VIII marrying Wallis Simpson, an American divorcee. It is often said that the British public were much more relaxed, adopting the manta "If she's good enough for the King, she's good enough for us." I am not sure how true that is, historically the working and middle classes were (and remain) much more socially conservative than the elite and certainly anyone of a religious vent would have refused to accept Wallis Simpson as Queen.

Your scenario is to add to that Edward has married and produced a family and has then proceeded to ditch his wife and children and wants to marry Wallis Simpson a twice divorced American.

Just as a principle it is unthinkable.

Frankly I think any sympathy Edward might have received in the actual scenario is non-existent in this scenario. The elite would have been appalled, the Church couldn't tolerate a Head of the church married to a divorcee, let alone a divorced Head who ditched his wife to marry her so its unlikely Edward could be crowned, I think the masses would have also find it beyond intolerable and his popularity would have completely ebbed away. Think Charles/Diana/Camilla on steroids.