More Convenient and Appropriate Cut-Off Dates for CE and BCE

[Driftless]

All calendars are based on arbitrary standards

How about starting the calendar on one of the un-common lunar eclipses that fall on Winter Soltice? Of course that's partly dependent on where you are, but pick an early crossroads civilization where that event might work, and become a commonly accepted standard.

 

[Shard]

Why not 1945? We can call it the post-war* era.

*Not quite true..

 

[twovultures]

I'd vote BC and AC-Before Columbus and After Columbus. The consequences of his little jaunt into the Atlantic basically created the modern world for the vast majority of people.

 

[Driftless]

How about using the appearance of Supernova SN185 in 185 BCE as a starting point?

 

[LHB]

I like the Holocene dating system as that's a point in time that is universally significant to all of humanity and fits with broader geological patterns.

Plus it means we can start using millennial-based dating systems which sounds more sci-fi

 

[Booster Gold]

The date Columbus landed in the Americas

The beginning of sustained contact between the two great global landmasses, when all of Earth was one.

Although by that same logic, you could say the date of Australia's discovery. More accurate, though less momentous (no offence Oceania!)

 

[Styrofoam Boots]

I've always thought about the Death of Alexander. It's close enough to the Chinese Unification and rise of Rome. Although it has most of the same problems our system has, just 323 years earlier.

 

[Agent of SHIELD]

I have to put another vote in for the Holocene calendar. No "Before this" or "After that". And its a calendar that applies to all Humanity. Plus, as LHB said, it would be cool to write the date with the year 12015 HE.

 

[SlyDessertFox]

The year of the first Olympiad, 776 BC. It's an extremely convenient date-its only a little more than a decade from the traditional date ascribed to the founding of Rome and it corresponds nicely to the end of the Greek dark ages, and is only 100 years before the end of the Third Intermediate Period in Egypt.

Otherwise, I just don't see the point in having a BCE/CE cutoff.

 

[Driftless]

If we are starting over tomorrow, I'll go with the Holocene model too. It's got more logic going for it. Conversely, every religion on the planet will hold that redo as heresy.

The follow on reorganization questions: How do you subdivide the year of 365.25 days?

• Thirteen month of 28 days, plus a yearly leap day, and an additional leap day every four years?
• Seventy Three weeks of five days - plus a leap day every four years?
• Etc., etc.

Also, what "date" becomes the starting point? Winter Solstice?

 

[zoomar]

If CE is meant as the Christian Era, then maybe it ought to be dated to Paul's first missionary trips, or perhaps Pentecost.

"CE" means "Common Era", which is a lame attempt to make the traditional Western BC/AD division based on an early and arbitrary estimate of Jesus's birth universal. Although it's artificial, the existing BCE/CE use should stay the same. It is used and understood throughout the world, even among civilizations that have different calendrical traditions. One can only imagine the confusion (not to mention widespread resistance and hostility) if somebody tried to change this.

 

[Blackfox5]

I think there are two good candidates.

The first is to date the beginning of the "Axial Age" around 500 BC when there began a very different intellectual and religious trend throughout Eurasia. Buddha, Confucius, Socrates all come after this date as do the great Classical empires. It marks a clear start from everything this.

The second possibility is to denote the end of the Classical era sometime after AD 600. You have the Islamic invasions killing off the earlier Classical civilizations - Persia falls, Byzantium loses most of its empire, and the earlier Mediterranean economy implodes heralding Western Europe's true Dark Age. In the east, China reunites under the Sui and Tang Dynasties. All the major world religions are established at this point. The world is truly different after this period then before.

The Holocene idea is nice in theory, but in reality "nothing" happens in the historical record until the year 6000 and most of what people really consider history not until 9000. As a result, it might be better to date it from the start of the birth of agriculture around 5000 BC or the rise of the Sumerian city states. It would mark pre-history from history.

 

[zoomar]

On the other hand, if you are looking for an calendrical alternate start date that might have actually been adopted in the modern era and come into common use, I'd offer (1) the year of the French Revolution, (2) the year of the Soviet Revolution, and (3) the year of Columbus's "discovery of the New World. Of these, 1492 as year zero (for 1/2 of the globe) might have been most likely. All settler societies in the New World were pretty much separated from the old world by travel time and distance.

 

[GeographyDude]

• Seventy Three weeks of five days - plus a leap day every four years?

That is interesting. I think the week is one of the longer divisions of time that is just arbitrary. Or, is this a pretty good estimate of how long the average human feels comfortable working and following the same routine before having a real need for a break.

 

[WhatIsAUserName]

My suggestions for a new start date: 1750 BCE, when the Code of Hammurabi was written, or 539 BCE, when the Cyrus Cylinder was written. That way the start date incorporates reference to ancient origins for law and human rights.

 

[Driftless]

If we are starting over tomorrow, I'll go with the Holocene model too. It's got more logic going for it. Conversely, every religion on the planet will hold that redo as heresy.


The follow on reorganization questions: How do you subdivide the year of 365.25 days?

• Thirteen month of 28 days, plus a yearly leap day, and an additional leap day every four years?
• Seventy Three weeks of five days - plus a leap day every four years?
• Etc., etc.

Also, what "date" becomes the starting point? Winter Solstice?

That is interesting. I think the week is one of the longer divisions of time that is just arbitrary. Or, is this a pretty good estimate of how long the average human feels comfortable working and following the same routine before having a real need for a break.

I was just mousing around with (relatively) uniform time blocks that serve as divisors of 365 days

As you know, 52 weeks of 7 days works as well.

 

[Sir Prizing]

The Invention of Freedom, July 4, 1776.

Greece's independence would have been 44 years, 8 months, 21 days IF for example

Speaking as a proud American patriot, clearly this is the only way we should date our calenders.

The U.S. Constitution actually includes the number of years (12) from the Declaration of Independence in addition to the traditional AD date when dating the year of ratification... Following that convention we are currently in year 238 and come next July 4 we will start year 239.

Seriously though, American independence does roughly mark the beginning of an important period in history where more and more colonies became independent, other countries (e.g. France) changed their system of government, etc.
If the world ever changed the dating system, I would say this would be a contender, though people who are not quite so favorable to the U.S. might disagree...

 

[Nofix]

Speaking as a proud American patriot, clearly this is the only way we should date our calenders.

The U.S. Constitution actually includes the number of years (12) from the Declaration of Independence in addition to the traditional AD date when dating the year of ratification... Following that convention we are currently in year 238 and come next July 4 we will start year 239.

Seriously though, American independence does roughly mark the beginning of an important period in history where more and more colonies became independent, other countries (e.g. France) changed their system of government, etc.
If the world ever changed the dating system, I would say this would be a contender, though people who are not quite so favorable to the U.S. might disagree...

I was only being mildly sarcastic when proposing it. While the Declaration of Independence is monumental in various independence movements the world over, I think the widespread use of the Gregorian calender makes it a moot point. Any calender will have issues and be biased toward something, and the Gloria Americana(tm) would be no different.

 

[Sir Prizing]

I was only being mildly sarcastic when proposing it. While the Declaration of Independence is monumental in various independence movements the world over, I think the widespread use of the Gregorian calender makes it a moot point. Any calender will have issues and be biased toward something, and the Gloria Americana(tm) would be no different.

Yeah, I fancy Countries like Russia, Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea would have serious problems with a dating system named after America. Plus, there's the nearly 200 other countries who would want it set to something about their history instead of mine, so... It wouldn't work out.

 

[jahenders]

Agreed. While there may be potential problems with the exact date, it's the closest thing to a "standard" index. It was recognized by a large part of the "Western" world when it came to be used and is almost universally understood (if not believed) today.

No other date would have had as wide an acceptance.

The only competitor I can think of might be the fall of Rome, but that's problematic because it "fell" multiple times and was then followed by lots of chaos that would have made the dissemination of standards difficult.

I wouldn't say it's arbitrary, considering Jesus is a very important person to a majority of the world's inhabitants, and changed our world significantly.