Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[BeardedHoplite]

Working on a TL where due to the after effects of the great war(no ww2) Italy, France, and Germany all fall to right wing military juntas, but not as radical as OTL Nazis. Portugal and Spain have similar results to OTL with Falaganism and Estado Novo. I have the leaders of the first wave of dictators pretty much set up, but these guys(except Franco) will be retired or dead by the 1950s. Who are some right wing politicians/military leaders that would be around 40-60 years old in the 1950s and in a similar ideological vein as Mussolini, Hindenburg, Franco, and Petain?

For France, Raoul Salan would be your best bet for a right-wing, but not fascist military strongman. Even DeGaulle might fit if the crisis TTL convinces him to drop democracy for a time.

Germany would be hard to say, since essentially all of the right wing was either too old for your scenario, or too thoroughly coopted by the Nazis to say if they had any non-nazi beliefs. Look at the rosters of Pre-war right wing parties like the DNVP or the Stahlhelmbund for candidates.

Ditto for Italy, although a moderated Italo Balbo run Italy would be interesting

 

[CourtlyHades296]

Another idea I had for my President Gore TL that Al Gore creates the National Video Game Registry, which also preserves US versions of games made outside America. One of the first 15 titles inducted is Secret of Mana on SNES-CD, which would be inducted in 2003.

 

[faddllz]

POD:
1. the tianmen square spiral down to second chinese civil war
2. the august coup spiral down to second russia civil war

how would the world deal with this ?

 

[oberdada]

John Lennon does not die, but falls into a coma after being shot and wakes up 40 years later...

 

[Zyobot]

'No One-Child Policy In China'.

 

[CourtlyHades296]

One effect of the Columbia Disaster being butterflied is that the Space Shuttle program continues for longer than OTL, and that Laurel Clark goes on to be the first woman to land on the moon in 2012. Neil Armstrong lives to see mankind return to the moon, but dies less than a year later.

 

[Zyobot]

‘Papa Doc Dies From His 1959 Heart Attack’.

 

[Aurelian Americanus]

This is just the intro to a small project I'm working on. It's called "Charge on you martyrs of Buda"

On the afternoon of 23 October 1956, some 20,000 protestors met beside the statue of General József Bem, a national hero to Poland and Hungary. To the protestors, the intellectual Péter Veres read a manifesto demanding Hungarian independence from all foreign powers; a democratic socialist political system based upon land reform and public ownership in the economy; Hungarian membership to the United Nations; and all freedoms and rights for the citizens of Hungary. After Veres proclaimed the manifesto demanding Hungarian sovereignty, the crowd chanted the Hungarian patriotic poem National Song, which the Soviet-controlled Rákosi government of Hungary had banned from public performance; the crowd repeatedly chanted the refrain: "This we swear, this we swear, that we will no longer be slaves”.

The Soviet response was immediate and merciless, 8,000 of the protesters would be killed outright with another 10,000 being imprisoned and later executed, many of which were innocent bystanders. A full occupation of Budapest and the surrounding areas would begin and for six days the red army would systematically tear through the city in search of the remaining protesters. By the end of the sixth day another 3,000 people were imprisoned and executed in secret. At the end of the sixth day at midnight without orders members of the occupying force had the statue of General József Bem that the protesters had rallied around destroyed and the leaders of the protest, Péter Veres among them, hanged from the base of the statue of Stalin that had been torn down. On the morning of the Seventh day the people of Hungary revolted and a combined force of nationalists, anti-Soviet communists, and elements of the HPA entered Budapest and stormed police stations arming themselves.

 

[Fehérvári]

What kind of operational/strategic level effects could it have had during the Polish Campaign of WW2, if Slovakia wouldn't have been a participant in the German attack, and the country's territory would have been unavailable to the Germans as a base of operations?

 

[sampleswift]

POD:
1. the tianmen square spiral down to second chinese civil war
2. the august coup spiral down to second russia civil war

how would the world deal with this ?

1. That would get really bloody, really fast. Civil Wars in China tend to have very high casualties. Let's say the part of the Chinese Army doesn't shoot and turns on its government, which sends other army units to deal with the insurrection. There's a very high chance that by the time the dust settles, there could be dozens of millions of deaths. Even if this causes a CCP collapse, hoo boy there will be a feast of death.
I'd say the US and NATO would probably support the pro-democracy side, but going into a nuclear power is always extremely risky. There's also a probable economic depression caused by all the collapse in China since by that time China had become a major economic power. Fear of nuclear war would also cause its own problems even if no nuclear weapon is fired.
2: Soviet Civil War -- This would also be very dangerous. Probably not to the extent of the China one, but still horrific. The US and NATO will probably not intervene initially except for securing nuclear weapons to avoid them being stolen by terrorists. Once again, civil war in a nuclear-armed power brings the risk of nuclear-armed conflict.
In both cases, there is a big risk of terrorists or insurgents trying to steal nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons!

 

[West234]

What kind of operational/strategic level effects could it have had during the Polish Campaign of WW2, if Slovakia wouldn't have been a participant in the German attack, and the country's territory would have been unavailable to the Germans as a base of operations?

Slovakia was a mostly secondary front that diverted a few polish divisions south however the main fight was further north. The only thing the Germans would really lose out on would be the 50000 Slovak troops that fought in the campaign but overall the corse of things would remain about the same.

 

[Fehérvári]

Slovakia was a mostly secondary front that diverted a few polish divisions south however the main fight was further north. The only thing the Germans would really lose out on would be the 50000 Slovak troops that fought in the campaign but overall the corse of things would remain about the same.

But IOTL attacks from Slovakia compromised the flank of the Polish defences in the South, didn't they? That's why the Poles had to withdraw from Silesia and Westernmost Galicia, when the Germans broke through further North. There was a threat of getting completely isolated. Without Slovakia in the war however, Polish positions in the South are more secure and there's no need to pull further back. The Carpathians and the urbanised area of Katowice provide good defensive positions to the Poles.

Wouldn't such change in the situation provoke some kind of deviation from the strategic thinking, plans and developments of OTL? Strictly speaking within the context of the Polish Campaign itself, I mean. For example, what would it mean for the Germans to having to deal with a lasting, significant organised Polish armed resistance in the hilly and mountainous areas of West Galicia and being significantly delayed from advancing towards Kraków, the San River, Przemyśl and Lemberg/Lwów?

 

[htgriffin]

1. That would get really bloody, really fast. Civil Wars in China tend to have very high casualties. Let's say the part of the Chinese Army doesn't shoot and turns on its government, which sends other army units to deal with the insurrection. There's a very high chance that by the time the dust settles, there could be dozens of millions of deaths. Even if this causes a CCP collapse, hoo boy there will be a feast of death.
I'd say the US and NATO would probably support the pro-democracy side, but going into a nuclear power is always extremely risky. There's also a probable economic depression caused by all the collapse in China since by that time China had become a major economic power. Fear of nuclear war would also cause its own problems even if no nuclear weapon is fired.

Pity the folks in Taipei. Even if they avoid "CCP lashes out in panic" or "Refugees swamp Taiwan" Bad Ends and thier claim to be China's Rightful Government is not laughed out of the room... tons of Mainland Collaborators With Ideas Of Their Own, and Outside Assistance With Perceived Or Actual Strings will be required if they even think of stepping in to fix things

 

[Historylover7583]

HELLO MY BABY, HELLO MY HONEY, HELLO MY COLD IMMORTAL - Chapter 5 - ardentlyThieving - Multifandom [Archive of Our Own]

An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works

archiveofourown.org

Cold War, My immortal.

I am smiling ear to ear. It takes great effort to look like a bad writer But by God I laugh

It's Nikita Khrushchev x John f. Kennedy

 

[Arkenfolm]

Random scenario--Let's assume for whatever reason, there is a fascist Britain in the early-mid 20th century, perhaps after a long series of setbacks like a defeat in the Great War, a bloody struggle against Ireland, socialist/trade union violence at home, and the discrediting of the political class. Would it make sense for them to create an elite unit akin to the SS or MVSN who wore red (outside of the battlefield obviously) as a tribute to the redcoats? I know that certain British (and other Commonwealth) units still wear red on parades and formal occasions, but this would be for pretty much every occasion they aren't expecting to be shot at much as the SS and MVSN wore black.

One could imagine anti-British sentiment in the US (i.e. Irishmen) would play heavily to the idea that the redcoats are back.

 

[West234]

Random scenario--Let's assume for whatever reason, there is a fascist Britain in the early-mid 20th century, perhaps after a long series of setbacks like a defeat in the Great War, a bloody struggle against Ireland, socialist/trade union violence at home, and the discrediting of the political class. Would it make sense for them to create an elite unit akin to the SS or MVSN who wore red (outside of the battlefield obviously) as a tribute to the redcoats? I know that certain British (and other Commonwealth) units still wear red on parades and formal occasions, but this would be for pretty much every occasion they aren't expecting to be shot at much as the SS and MVSN wore black.

One could imagine anti-British sentiment in the US (i.e. Irishmen) would play heavily to the idea that the redcoats are back.

In general, the adoption of a particular color by a military or paramilitary unit is often based on a combination of practical considerations and symbolic associations. The color red has a long history in British military and political culture, and has been associated with the British army since the 17th century, when soldiers wore red coats as a means of identification. If a fascist British regime did choose to adopt red as a tribute to the redcoats, it could be seen as a way of invoking a sense of national pride and military tradition, and presenting the regime as a continuation of British history and values. However, it could also be seen as a provocative gesture that would invite comparisons to the past actions of the British Empire, and potentially fuel anti-British sentiment among certain groups, as you have suggested. Ultimately, the adoption of a particular color by a military or paramilitary unit would depend on a variety of factors, including the specific ideology and aims of the regime, as well as practical considerations such as the availability of materials and the need for camouflage or visibility on the battlefield.

 

[Wendell]

What if the post-Soviet Russian government is more like that of the RSFSR?

 

[Imperial Japan]

What if Japan majorly built their empire shortly after winning the russo-japan conflict, separate from the axis?

Just imagine a WWll style Japanese Empire in 1913

 

[Fehérvári]

What if Japan majorly built their empire shortly after winning the russo-japan conflict, separate from the axis?

Just imagine a WWll style Japanese Empire in 1913

Username checks out.

To answer the question: Japan was nowhere near strong enough to accomplish anything like that. The war with Russia alone was already an enormous strain on the Japanese economy, but Japan also simply lacked the means to reach and occupy so much land. Not to mention, Japan would find itself at war with every single Great Power + China if the realisation of such fever dream is ever attempted.

 

[IN_4659]

In 1991, Mikhail Gorbachev attempted to reform the USSR as a confederation known as the Union of Soviet Sovereign Republics (or Union of Sovereign States). Most of the countries, including Ukraine, were willing to sign a New Union Treaty to make this new change (6 of them declared indepenBut this was stopped by a coup that led to the USSR collapse.

What if this treaty was signed and the new Union was made? Would it last up until today or would it inevitably break? If it did survive, would the world be a better or worse place than it is now? (i.e. no war in Ukraine today)