Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[RMcD94]

It is often the case that people on this forum have miscellaneous or frivolous questions that could be easily answered by the many experts on this forum but are difficult to find the answer to on Google Scholar/Books or Wikipedia because they don't often deal in alternatives.

There are other cases where people have miscellaneous or frivolous scenarios or challenges that they want to share about an idea they encountered that could perhaps provoke inspiration in other users but isn't deserving enough to be posted as a thread on its own.

These issues have been addressed in the Shared Worlds, ASB and <1900 forums but haven't been dealt with here.

This thread is intended to be a resource for those with questions about a timeline they want to construct which are minor and undeserving of their own thread, and a place to share ideas that people don't have time, skill or knowledge to write themselves.

 

[dianaswordofsappho]

My question is in relation to Trotsky surviving in Mexico?

As the Cold War goes on what happens with him?

 

[Sam R.]

My question is in relation to Trotsky surviving in Mexico?

As the Cold War goes on what happens with him?

Trotsky was one of a number of Leninist, Bolshevik or maximalist heterodox theorists; and appeared significant alongside a variety of active leaders of the above currents.

He was, however, personally irrelevant by his death. 4th International politics and its dissidents had moved beyond his pronouncements, particularly in the US where Cannonites existed. Internationalism and maximalism will be harder inside the people’s democracies and Soviet Union. But this will just change the adjectives applied to holders of unacceptable lines during Zhadanovishchina or the Rajk purges.

Trotsky’s irrelevance won’t make 4th international groups any more relevant. The post war boom / forced investment will cripple them. It’ll take until the 1968 period crisis for Trots to be relevant, and historically it was non-orthodox younger parties / groups with some industrial penetration who proved the least irrelevant.

 

[dianaswordofsappho]

Trotsky was one of a number of Leninist, Bolshevik or maximalist heterodox theorists; and appeared significant alongside a variety of active leaders of the above currents.

He was, however, personally irrelevant by his death. 4th International politics and its dissidents had moved beyond his pronouncements, particularly in the US where Cannonites existed. Internationalism and maximalism will be harder inside the people’s democracies and Soviet Union. But this will just change the adjectives applied to holders of unacceptable lines during Zhadanovishchina or the Rajk purges.

Trotsky’s irrelevance won’t make 4th international groups any more relevant. The post war boom / forced investment will cripple them. It’ll take until the 1968 period crisis for Trots to be relevant, and historically it was non-orthodox younger parties / groups with some industrial penetration who proved the least irrelevant.

If he was able to immigrate sooner perhaps the us could trot him around as a figurehead of true leftism?

Not sure

 

[Thanosaekk]

Glad to see such a thread being created. Here is a question I am not sure deserves its own thread:

Many scenarios where Germany wins WWII and gets most of Eastern Europe and European Russia have the USSR collapsing into civil war or warlordism, and I am guilty of having done this as well. However, how plausible is that after two decades of Stalin's rule, where he eliminated any opposition with purges etc? And, if it did happen, what entities would likely arise in the former USSR?

 

[Aisha Clan-Clan]

My question is in relation to Trotsky surviving in Mexico?

As the Cold War goes on what happens with him?

Weaker academic left and "hard" left in the US/broader west. Weaker new left. Nixon and his successors(Connally, Bush) rule 1968-1992. You get some non-Clinton*/Gore moderate dems running things 1992-2004/2008 to be followed by an ongoing period of populist republicans -- Easier transition to pull off from a GOP that never had a Reaganite/neocon era.

Why? Look at the tendency for trotksyite or trot-influenced movements to fission then keep fissioning to ridiculous extents.

* No "new left"/DLC ex-hippie turned yuppie types as a coherent faction. There are DLC analogues, but it's 3-4 different movements that all hate each other

 

[Count of Crisco]

What if the French had been the first to design and build an all big gun ship? Beating the British to the punch by even a few months. What would the effects on the world have been? I know France had some issues with their shipbuilding. But their fire directors were quite advanced and they had some good ideas mixed with some very bad ones.
Say in 1905, just months before Dreadnpught the French manage to complete a ship of their own and beat them to the punch. Would this have dramatically shifted the naval balance? Or would it have been only ahort term glory for the Marine Nationale?

 

[Bene Tleilax]

Frank Wells doesn't die in a helicopter crash in 1994?

 

[Veles]

So this isn't ASB but it's so unlikely as to approach it.
What if, after setting foot on the moon, the Apollo astronauts announce their defection to the USSR and unfurl a hammer and sickle flag?

 

[RMcD94]

Re: Operation Tannenbaum.

Many people say it would be silly because it would hurt the Nazis ability to buy things from abroad. Is that actually true? If the Nazis seized the massive gold reserves of Switzerland why couldn't they sell to the market via Sweden or Spain? They could even use Turkey.

Re: Spanish Civil War

At what point was the Civil War unwinnable for the Republicans? If Soviets had stopped trying to hide their involvement, like the Axis weren't, in 1938 could they save them?

 

[X_X]

Frank Wells doesn't die in a helicopter crash in 1994?

Great question! I'd like to imagine that Katzenberg sticks around a few more years meaning that he doesn't form Dreamworks with Geffen and Spielberg. He would certainly leave Disney eventually (around 1996), but I think he wouldn't have the same success as an animation executive. Maybe he's hired by Warner Brothers? No Dreamworks means no Shrek, so maybe the transition to 3D is delayed a few years?

 

[Bene Tleilax]

Great question! I'd like to imagine that Katzenberg sticks around a few more years meaning that he doesn't form Dreamworks with Geffen and Spielberg. He would certainly leave Disney eventually (around 1996), but I think he wouldn't have the same success as an animation executive. Maybe he's hired by Warner Brothers? No Dreamworks means no Shrek, so maybe the transition to 3D is delayed a few years?

Debbie Allen directs Amistad with a smaller budget and A.I is directed earlier. Disney or Paramount produces Catch Me if You Can and The Terminal is never made (9/11 is possibly butterflied away.) Tarzan is never made.

 

[YYJ]

Technical Question: Would a number of high explosive artillery shells be able to set a large mound of coal on fire? Or would the explosions just throw coal everywhere?

 

[Maeglin]

My question is in relation to Trotsky surviving in Mexico?

As the Cold War goes on what happens with him?

Stalin tries again. And again. He only needs to succeed once...

If Trotsky dodges the assassins, he remains an irrelevancy up until 1956. That's when the Soviet monolith is shattered, due to Hungary and the Secret Speech, and Western Communists start tearing up their membership cards. In this climate, he might end up getting the sort of people who went over to Mao.

If he can survive until the 1960s or the 1970s, his sheer longevity becomes a sort of asset - he's the Grand Old Man of the Revolution, and a continued embarrassment to Moscow, who will not be rehabilitating him even after Stalin dies.

 

[Coiler]

Stalin tries again. And again. He only needs to succeed once...

If Trotsky dodges the assassins, he remains an irrelevancy up until 1956.

From what I've heard, his health was poor and he'd probably die of natural causes before then.

 

[Maeglin]

From what I've heard, his health was poor and he'd probably die of natural causes before then.

Probably. But having him die before 1956 is no fun.

 

[wwbgdiaslt]

Princess Elizabeth dies before George VI, post marriage and pre children. Margaret becomes heir apparent.

Philip is now a widower, Earl Mountbatten still hanging around trying to manoeuvre the Battenburgs into a position of power but there are no eligible candidates to put together with Margaret.

Who does Margaret marry?

 

[Benjideaula]

What if the Stuka was armed with a 37mm cannon instead of bombs?

 

[Count of Crisco]

What if the Stuka was armed with a 37mm cannon instead of bombs?

Pretty sure they did that with a dedicated tank buster variant. With gun pods in place of bombs. If it was a massed produced version like you may be suggesting then why? The JU-87 was a dedicated dive bomber and served well in that role, right through the war even if dated by the end. I dont see a plane with a big gun being as useful as a bomber outside of a few specialised roles.

 

[Catsmate]

A question that's outside my immediate field. What happens if you remove Anthony Lucas/born Antun Lučić from history? This would delay the Spindletop Hill oil strike, and hence the Texas oil boom of the early 1900s. How long would this delay the (overused term) "Petroleum Age"? A few years? More?