I can definitely see this being a knight in post regression America. (Credit to Shabazik over on Deviantart.)
Wait what about Woodblock printing? It could have easily evolved from children alphabet blocks during the regression.Way of the dodo. All books are painstakingly copied by hand, the two largest centers of book making are the Willamette valley and Buffalo.
I've talked in the thread in the mid 60s' pages about my pet hypothesis any post-apocalyptic/neo-de-industrialized America would be much more akin to a China than a Roman Empire - at least east of the Rockies - due to geography, governmental norms, and historical and cultural values... honestly I actually feel it'd be the rather more likely situation if anything. I'm honestly game for such a premise and I haven't spoken up on it since in the thread since it would take away from the point in this one.Wait what about Woodblock printing? It could have easily evolved from children alphabet blocks during the regression.
Also thinking about the basic premise. Does anyone else think it would more sense for South America to parallel Medieval Europe with North America being closer to Asia?
- USA = Imperial China (with some Rome & Mesopotamia)
- Quebec = Korea
- Desert = Islamic Golden Age
- Canada = Siberian Steps
- Caribbean = Southeast Asia & South Pacific
I would definitely be up for seeing such a project playing out. There could easily be a similarly ideal to the Mandate of Heaven and Chinese Legalism forming in neo-pre industrial America. Heck considering what ever collapse was bad enough to nock things to a pre industry level of technology, even a thousand years later. There could actually be a wholly new religion where the gods are derived from American historical & folk figures.I've talked in the thread in the mid 60s' pages about my pet hypothesis any post-apocalyptic/neo-de-industrialized America would be much more akin to a China than a Roman Empire - at least east of the Rockies - due to geography, governmental norms, and historical and cultural values... honestly I actually feel it'd be the rather more likely situation if anything. I'm honestly game for such a premise and I haven't spoken up on it since in the thread since it would take away from the point in this one.
I meant to reply to this and never did.I would definitely be up for seeing such a project playing out. There could easily be a similarly ideal to the Mandate of Heaven and Chinese Legalism forming in neo-pre industrial America. Heck considering what ever collapse was bad enough to nock things to a pre industry level of technology, even a thousand years later. There could actually be a wholly new religion where the gods are derived from American historical & folk figures.
Personally I was thinking of "Mantle of Columbia" for the official term of the Mandate of Heaven analogue in a Medieval America.More thoughts, including a sadly depressing one. I won't make a big edit to my original post:
7) A Mandate of Heaven equivalent? Easily "The Will of the People" - nationalism and "freedom" combined has always been a rallying cry for Americana since time immemorial. Could be used in both republican constitutional or imperial dynastic changes alike.
Honestly considering something happening that's so apocalyptic that even a thousand years later people are still living a antiquity-Medieval lifestyle a thousand years later. I can see religion in America having warped into something that is very much not Christianity. Most likely a diest or even polytheistic religion descended from Christianity but very much isn't.9) I think an American-specific branch of Christianity will crop up, perhaps as unique as the Non-Denoms in this project, but I suspect that as the extreme end and any such American branch of Christianity is in effect a "national" church as "unique" as Anglicanism is to England, Lutheranism to Scandinavia, Calvinism to the Netherlands, etc. Certainly Mormon influence of a sort because 'MURICA as a chosen people is always appealing. I can also see it becoming a widespread unifier with an evolving formalized American-English, and a lot of lapsed and disparate Catholics and Protestants alike converting to it, since by now they're fully American for generations.
Makes sense to both of them, and I happily concede for worldbuilding purposes since I'm exceedingly conservative on butterflies and rely on others to be more creative in that sense. George Washington as a Romulus in the making I could easily see happening.Personally I was thinking of "Mantle of Columbia" for the official term of the Mandate of Heaven analogue in a Medieval America.
Honestly considering something happening that's so apocalyptic that even a thousand years later people are still living a antiquity-Medieval lifestyle a thousand years later. I can see religion in America having warped into something that is very much not Christianity. Most likely a diest or even polytheistic religion descended from Christianity but very much isn't.
Nikola Tesla can easily be warped into a diety figure. Primarily around science and technology but also immigrants, tying in nicely with the more uniquely American aspects of the scenario.Makes sense to both of them, and I happily concede for worldbuilding purposes since I'm exceedingly conservative on butterflies and rely on others to be more creative in that sense. George Washington as a Romulus in the making I could easily see happening.
Not reallyNikola Tesla can easily be warped into a diety figure. Primarily around science and technology but also immigrants, tying in nicely with the more uniquely American aspects of the scenario.
Thank you for your kind words. I see no reason why Tehskyman's post must be disregarded or altered. I personally image Louisiana as having grown a Voodoo population before the 2400s but they were a mere minority and thus they had to deal with Crusaders. Yet, after the Haitian thalassocracy, the Voodoos were able to properly assert themselves in Louisiana (with help from the Haitians who promoted the local Voodoo population) and eventually become a majority in future Louisiana's territories.Timeline/Historiographical Note:
In his narrative post "A First Encounter," the banned @tehskyman has Christian/Nondenominational crusaders doing battle with Voodoo elephant-riders in Natchez. However, in @Richard Drummond's excellent post "A second draft history of the Caribbean," it is established that the 'voudonization' of Louisiana only occurred some time in the 2400-2600s following the successes of the Haitian thalassocracy. tehskyman's post shows Voodoo presence in the very early 24th century. A later voudonization strikes me as far more plausible and had a lot more thought put into it, so I am going to say that tehskyman's post (which cannot be edited since his ban) needs to be reposted with this minor fact accounted for.
Further, I just want to mention that I certainly need to take a second look at my old Louisiana post, since the region has developed so much since then and to be honest I really didn't put much thought into it.
Well the tenor of the post seems to be that the Voodoo are winning, and it also seems odd for crusades and such a well-ingrained notion of Nondenominationalism existing at that point. Plus it makes sense that elephants would be a later development - how would a minority of put upon heretics have the ability to import elephants from distant South America and successfully employ them in war? Indeed, would such a sophisticated mahout culture even develop in South America in only 3 centuries? the 25th-27th century seems like a more generous timeframe for that culture to develop in South America, and it would make a lot of sense for the insanely rich Voodoo Thalassocracy (Haitian or not) to be the ones with the means and determination to introduce them to the bayou.Thank you for your kind words. I see no reason why Tehskyman's post must be disregarded or altered. I personally image Louisiana as having grown a Voodoo population before the 2400s but they were a mere minority and thus they had to deal with Crusaders. Yet, after the Haitian thalassocracy, the Voodoos were able to properly assert themselves in Louisiana (with help from the Haitians who promoted the local Voodoo population) and eventually become a majority in future Louisiana's territories.
I must say we cannot forget the Douga? in an excellent post many pages back. I personally would prefer the Haitian thalassocracy I mentioned be replaced with them.
Cuisine varies by region, of course, so it's difficult to say what it would look like. Corn and potatoes are obviously present in the diets where they were not in the real Middle Ages. Access to sugar cane is probably much easier for Medieval Americans than it would be for Medieval Europeans, reducing reliance on honey and other ersatz sweeteners, but still quite rare of course. Spices in general are probably a little bit easier to come by, but still quite expensive the further north you get. Meat of course is less common than it is today, a lot more sausages, smoked meats and jerkies. Fried chicken is probably very common fare. Access to beef is probably better on the whole, since a significant portion of the continent (the Great Plains) is, unlike the Eurasian Steppe, largely devoted to the production and exportation of beef.How would be the new cuisines of medieval America looked like, and where to acquire the spices like pepper, cinnamon and turmeric?
Two personal opinions:Cuisine varies by region, of course, so it's difficult to say what it would look like. Corn and potatoes are obviously present in the diets where they were not in the real Middle Ages. Access to sugar cane is probably much easier for Medieval Americans than it would be for Medieval Europeans, reducing reliance on honey and other ersatz sweeteners, but still quite rare of course. Spices in general are probably a little bit easier to come by, but still quite expensive the further north you get. Meat of course is less common than it is today, a lot more sausages, smoked meats and jerkies. Fried chicken is probably very common fare. Access to beef is probably better on the whole, since a significant portion of the continent (the Great Plains) is, unlike the Eurasian Steppe, largely devoted to the production and exportation of beef.
Reminds me Ser Dontos HollardI can definitely see this being a knight in post regression America. (Credit to Shabazik over on Deviantart.)
Those are all very legitimate points. I suppose 3 centuries would be enough time for Nondenomism and Voodooism in the region to reach the point of waging crusade against one another. Just look at Islam and Christianity. Islam was waging holy war from the get-go and within 300 years, Christianity went from some random Jewish preacher to being the faith of Roman emperors. In regards to elephants being used by the Voodoo, perhaps they initially had strong contacts within the merchant class and that's how they had the wealth and connections to import elephants although I don't have a response to how the usage of elephants would develop in South America fast enough for that. How long did it take historically for groups to adopt elephantine warfare?Well the tenor of the post seems to be that the Voodoo are winning, and it also seems odd for crusades and such a well-ingrained notion of Nondenominationalism existing at that point. Plus it makes sense that elephants would be a later development - how would a minority of put upon heretics have the ability to import elephants from distant South America and successfully employ them in war? Indeed, would such a sophisticated mahout culture even develop in South America in only 3 centuries? the 25th-27th century seems like a more generous timeframe for that culture to develop in South America, and it would make a lot of sense for the insanely rich Voodoo Thalassocracy (Haitian or not) to be the ones with the means and determination to introduce them to the bayou.