Medieval America Mark III

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Flashman, Jun 21, 2017.

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  1. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    Neo Mayans? Maybe Jamaica or Mexico could do it too. Idk about Venezuela.

    The Louisianans and Americans could also play disruptive roles in the Caribbean too.
     
  2. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    I feel like the Neo-Mayans would be more of a landbased people. Jamaica could play that role though they are a bit small and perhaps a coastal Mexican state based around Veracruz. I like the idea of an American period of domination in the Caribbean.

    Venezuela could dominate the Lower Antilles but not the Caribbean as a whole I believe.
     
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  3. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I don't know about Venezuela, they should be largely landlocked too. Not many ports. A state centered on Lake Maracaibo maybe.

    Veracruz I can see, but not sure if they are independent from the Central Plateau. Perhaps Tabasco is more realistic?
     
  4. 245 Well-Known Member

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    no, that's the santeria religion on Cuba.
     
  5. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I guess the Caribbean is a patchwork of Voodoo, Santeria, Mexican Catholic, Orthodox Catholic?, Non Denom?, Something else???

    Considering the possibilities of Crusades from Mexico, maybe Cubans are more Mexican Catholics, particularly in the western half of the island. The eastern half (which also contains more of the afro-cuban population) is probably trending towards voodoo/santeria.

    Hispaniola can have more Voodoo and Santeria, Puerto Rico is Santerian/Catholic?

    A thought popped into my mind, what if Jamaica was some weird mix of Non-Denom and Voodoo

    Non Denom Enclaves might exist.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  6. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think we should let the Caribean be a huge melting pot of religion with Islam, Hinduism, Rastafarianism and many others finding followers in the islands. I think the religions should all be more a less a blend of syncretism with the personal beliefs of people differing very heavily. A father might by a Santerian with some Voodoo influence which his son, also a Santerian would have less Voodoo influence but more Hindu influence in his own personal beliefs.

    Plus, if we have Nondenomism have followers in the Caribbean, that could be due to a period of conquest in the region by the US Navy.
     
  7. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I think that is a very modern way of thinking about religion. Maybe individual islands might have different local religions but the vast majority of people are going to be some form of Voodoo/Catholic. Rastafarianism might catch on in Jamaica. Also, the Caribbean starts off very Catholic, most islands are catholic and in a Medieval setting, the population pressures of different islands are going to cause conflict. There will be less religious tolerance when you're starving and the heathens the next island over aren't.
     
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  8. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say it necessarily has to be a modern attitude towards religion. If the rest of the Carribean is secretarial, we are going to have a large amount of the male population wandering the islands as merchants, sailors or mercenaries so they are going to be experiencing many different religions and rather than it being religious tolerance, its just varying level of syncretism. In my example, the son might still deem the Hindus to be a bunch of heathens eventhough he might be influenced by them.

    However, I do understand your points and I agree with the overpopulation aspect.
     
  9. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Perhaps Puerto Rico is an Americanist redoubt.
     
  10. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    So here is the general spread of religions as I think of it

    Bahamas will be Non-Denom and might have a District Supervisor. This is because the USA colonized/conquered the area.

    Most of Cuba is Mexican Orthodox. This is the result of a Crusade which Mexico launched against a Voodoo Caribbean Empire.

    Haiti/Western Hispaniola and Jamaica are definitely Voodoo. Most of the Lesser Antilles are also probably Voodoo too.

    The Dominican Republic / Eastern Hispaniola is Santerian/ Non Denom. Maybe Voodoo along the coasts and in the cities.

    Trinidad might be Hindu

    Agrarian Central America is Mexican Catholic, Non Agrarian Central America is various tribal religions which derive from a syncretism of Catholicism and Jungle Paganism

    Yucatan is Mexican Catholic along the Northern and Western Coasts. Mayan/Catholic Syncretism everywhere else.

    Quick Sketch of the Carribeans religion

    upload_2019-10-23_18-51-46.png

    Maybe, Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador all fall under the influence of a separate Catholic branch. (Colombian Orthodox Church?) This grows the number of Catholic Churches in the Americas to

    1. Quebec
    2. Mexico
    3. Santeria (Caribbean)
    4. Colombia
    5. Andean (Peru)
    6. Chilean
    7. Platanian (Uruguay and Argentina)
    8. Paraguayan? (Paraguay is a very interesting place)
    9. Brazillian ?
    10. Northwestern Brazillian??

    South America is a very big place.

    A first draft history of the Caribbean

    2000s-2300s: The various islands are roughly Catholic. Divergence spreads in the Lesser Antilles and this is where the neo-Voodoo religion grew.

    2300s - 2400s: ???

    At some point there is a Voodoo Caribbean Empire originated in Haiti and conquered most of the Caribbean. They were fairly tolerant at first, this is how Voodoo spread to Louisiana

    2700s: The Mexicans decide to launch a Crusade against the Neo-Mayans and the Voodoo. A couple coastal Neo-Mayan city states are conquered. The second Mexican crusade uses the conquered cities as a launching point to invade the Caribbean Empire.

    The Crusade conquers most of Cuba until the God President of Mexico dies and a civil war erupts in Mexico over who inherits. Cuba is still mostly Catholic at this point.

    This leaves the Free and Sovereign Republic of Cuba which survives until now.

    There might also be an Bahamanian Crusade, launched by the Americans.

    2800s: The Caribbean Empire breaks up.
     
  11. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    I like what you have done with the religions. It seems reasonable enough though I feel Rastafarianism should definitely have an appearance in the region. Anyways, here is my own ideas for the Caribbean.

    A second draft history of the Caribbean

    2000s-2300s: The various islands are roughly Catholic. Divergence spreads in the Lesser Antilles and this is where the neo-Voodoo religion grew.

    2300s - 2400s: The Americans launch the Bahamian Crusade and conquer the Bahamas as part of a continuation of George Washington II's policies which saw increased American trade, piracy and privateering in the Carribean. Many Gullahs acted as the sailors of the American ships engaging in such maritime actions in the Caribbean. Continued American agitation in the Caribbean causes a collapse in already existing regional powers leaving a power vacuum which the Americans were unable to fill due to their distance.

    2400s-2600s: A Voodoo Caribbean Empire originated in Haiti and conquered most of the Caribbean due to the lack of any regional powers due to American agitation. They were fairly tolerant at first, this is how Voodoo spread to Louisiana. They worked with the Floridians to expel the Americans from the Bahamas.

    2600s: There is a massive civil war within the Carribean Empire that sees much of the Haitian elite replaced by Cubans and a rise in intolerance by the religious establishment. Rastafarianism is heavily persecuted against and followers are driven into the interiors of several islands or flee to Central America. The new ruling elite use their initial zeal to conquer southern Florida, coastal Yucatan, Mosquito Coast and they are even welcomed by the Voodoo population of Louisiana due to persecutions against them and Louisiana is made a tributary. However, the Caribbean Empire would be forced to halt their expansion due to fears of spreading themselves thin.

    2700s: The Mexicans decide to launch a Crusade against the Neo-Mayans and the Voodoo. A couple coastal Neo-Mayan city states are conquered as well as the Caribbean holdings in the Yucatan. The second Mexican crusade uses the conquered cities as a launching point to invade the Caribbean Empire which is dealing with severe bureaucratic issues.

    The Crusade conquers most of Cuba until the God President of Mexico dies and a civil war erupts in Mexico over who inherits. Cuba is still mostly Catholic at this point. Due to the conquest of much of the Cuban lands, many devout Voodoo Cubans flee to Hispaniola and across the Caribbean but the loss of their core territory has heavily shaken the empire and many regions declare independence.

    This leaves the Free and Sovereign Republic of Cuba which survives until now.

    There might also be an Bahamanian Crusade, launched by the Americans.

    2800s: The Caribbean Empire breaks up after a particularly bloody civil war that sees the region engulfed by piracy.
    2900s: The Cubans attempt to seize the Bahamas and Miami but fail.
     
  12. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Wonder how surviving scholars view the pre-regression age and how much modern knowledge survived or has been warped into pseudo superstitions?
     
  13. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    Considering how much of pre-476 knowledge was known by medieval scholars, I'm willing to say quite a lot would have survived. Maybe not understood in its entirety due to a lack of equipment and knowhow to replicate stuff but they would understand things. Take the periodic table for example, they will know of what the elements can and cannot do though they might not be able to produce many of them.
     
  14. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I think that Puerto Rico would probably be one of the first places to declare independence from the US.

    Also everyone there is catholic and speaks spanish so there might not be the oppurtunity for Americanism to take root there.

    Maybe the Americans launched a crusade to "reclaim" puerto rico and the US virgin islands
     
  15. KeeCoyote Well-Known Member

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    Nov 25, 2010
    the curse of radiation on you who use these stones or go on certain wrecks. For you will waste away and your descendants will be twisted from it.
     
  16. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    I've actually been wondering how they'd react to discovering your more post apocalyptic American wasteland. With mutant monsters, raiders running around scavenged motorcycles, tribal savages, enclaves and cargo cults who managed to maintain pre disaster infrastructure and weird sci-fi junk.

    Besides "How could such wonders lie in the hands of such heathens?"
     
  17. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    Dec 1, 2013
    If we were going 100% realistic regarding the nuclear reactors large chunks of the former United States would be inaccessible due to nuclear meltdowns. Not to mention any windborne radiation. I only included the bit regarding the so-called "Cursed Depths" because it's interesting to read about how scientifically-illiterate neo-peasants would view the nuclear silos.
     
  18. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    After 30 years or so, the areas surrounding the reactors should be fine. Its just the immediate reactor sites themselves that would be incredibly toxic. Maybe a segment of the cursed tombs and the blighted silver contained within them is needed.
     
  19. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    Dec 1, 2013
    So something talking about the ruined reactors and how the various societies incorporate them into their folklore?
     
  20. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    Or we just handwave reactors, like we did with cities.
     
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