Well I think there is a fairly strong semi realism to be constructed in this case: that the Mafia would take over is fairly certain, as government collapses it gins strength from lack of oversight and furthermore has a certain sense of legitimacy through its penetration of culture. Further, there would certainly be a strong urge among the mafia class to enforce a instinction between themselves and the anglo lower class, which would manifest inevitably in an emphasis on the Italian vernacular that exists among wise guys
Medieval America Mark III
- Thread starter Flashman
- Start date
Yeah. Like I posted, they ARE taking over in Italy during the coronavirus. I kind of feel like we might be seeing the start of an actual Regression kind of. Flashman and I agree on that the mafia would take over NJ in a collapse of civilization we just wrote different particulars about this state's relationship to its neighbors and those can be amended.
tehskyman
Banned
Considering that the mafia has more or less the same accent as most New Jerseyans right now, if they were to rise to prominence and seek to distinguish themselves from the lower classes, speaking Church English would be a good way to do that. Of course they'd pepper their speech with Jerseyisms and local terms but it wouldn't sound anything like Italian. It'd just be Jerseyan
Something comparable would be if in Cascadia the locals began speaking Mandarin.
Last edited:
think the difference here is that most of the elite in Cascadia are of anglo descent, and English already is used effectively as a liturgical language in a lot of American Buddhist communities.
Whereas if Catholicism remains in place for a good few centuries, Latin becomes the actual prestige language. If you add together a simplified version of Latin with a fairly large corpus (arguably larger than any other immigrant group) of words, phrases, and songs in Italian, I think something that kind of resembles Italian could come out the other side.
tehskyman
Banned
Centuries of speaking Latin in a liturgical setting didn't make Catholic Germany, Poland, Scandinavia, England, Hungary more latin in their languages. Most immigrant groups in the Northeast don't speak their native languages anymore.
Would Latin become a prestige language though? I would think that as the underclasses began speaking in their local dialects and accents, the overclasses would probably try to speak in General American English as much as possible, to maintain that connection to the Old USA as much as possible.
tehskyman
Banned
I think that this post in the Mk II thread should be made canon
The Mormon Government
Edit: In retrospect maybe not, though a discussion about the merits of this post and editing out things that don't fit might be better
The Mormon Government
Edit: In retrospect maybe not, though a discussion about the merits of this post and editing out things that don't fit might be better
Last edited:
Speaking of languages, I wonder if Church English and other languages ended up becoming syncretized with Spanish after the regression occurred. Maybe the Californian serfs mostly speak a form of Spanglish while the upper classes use some kind of weird conlang based on codewords invented by Hubbard.
The Account of Chief Hawken
The Account of Chief Hawken
The following is taken from the "Travels to the West" by one Obadiah Olmstead, a celebrated Bostonian merchant who claimed to have personally travelled from Boston to California. This was an account he claims was given to him by one 'Chief Hawken' of the Black Gun Clan, a minor Nebraskan Cowboy tribe.
"When we came to the land of the Black Guns we were met most rudely and there was some fear that we would be treated as so many travelers. However, our Trucker guides did smooth things over with the cowboys and we were then treated warmly, and invited to share a meal with the Judge of the Black Guns - though the black guns call their leader the Chief, and not the Judge.
We came to the camp of the Black Guns, which was rough, and small. The Chief's tent was the finest, but even this was poor in comparison to the tents of many of the Great Chiefs and Great Judges and indeed even some of the lesser. As the Faith Traitors do not believe in the creation of any image for the believe it to be sorcery, the tent is instead dressed with appealing patterns, much like a quilt, but this one was worn.
We came in to find the retinue of the Chief, assembled around the chief, who was old. They were all dressed very roughly: one man was dressed in an outfit made wholly of coonskin, and even the chief's fine robes (no doubt taken from some Arkansas potentate) were worm-bitten and fraying. We did kneel to the chief and presented those things that the savages value, and he nodded. We joined him and his retinue for a prayer in the manner of the New Israelites before eating. The prayers of the New Israelites take the form of a short sermon, given by the patriarch. When he had concluded, all said "Amen" (a commonality between many American tongues) and enjoyed a meal of simply cooked beef. Though we Eastrons did not understand the prayer, our Truckers did translate it for us after dinner.
The Chief (who was called Hawken) told the tale of the time when he was a young warrior, and the Black Guns rode with the Okies into Arkansas for pillage and booty despite the animosity of the two races. Hawken participated in the Sacking of Fort Smith, which Wilbur Griffin discussed in his chronicle of that territory. Hawken told how he rode through the city street as it went up in flames all around him, how he was laden with booty. The Black Guns were ready to divest from the raid, and so was he, until he saw a little girl in the flames. This little girl he took and with his wife (who was barren) they conceived to raise this farmer-girl who they would otherwise see as subhuman to be their own daughter, and Hawken said that he did love her.
Chief Hawken told how the Black Guns rode off from Arkansas to the west, where they came into some conflict with a tribe of Teksaners over grazing rights. Chief Hawken held himself bravely in the battle against the Teksaners. When the Chief was killed in battle, Hawken rose to the occasion and led the men to victory, wiping out that clan of Teksaners to the man. He was then acclaimed Chief. However, the very next day, Chief Hawken found that his adopted daughter, who he had been raising as a Cowgirl for several months, had been crafting dolls from corn husks. When interrogated, the girl admitted that she had been taught this in Arkansas, and that she had started making them on the same die that the old chief had died. Chief Hawken did what any Faith-Traitor would: he tried the girl, found her guilty, and had her stoned for idolatry.
Though this tale no doubt has some significance for the New Israelite regarding power, responsibility, and personal sacrifice, for us it shows only the cruelty of that accursed race.
We left the camp of the Black Guns first thing in the morning."
The following is taken from the "Travels to the West" by one Obadiah Olmstead, a celebrated Bostonian merchant who claimed to have personally travelled from Boston to California. This was an account he claims was given to him by one 'Chief Hawken' of the Black Gun Clan, a minor Nebraskan Cowboy tribe.
"When we came to the land of the Black Guns we were met most rudely and there was some fear that we would be treated as so many travelers. However, our Trucker guides did smooth things over with the cowboys and we were then treated warmly, and invited to share a meal with the Judge of the Black Guns - though the black guns call their leader the Chief, and not the Judge.
We came to the camp of the Black Guns, which was rough, and small. The Chief's tent was the finest, but even this was poor in comparison to the tents of many of the Great Chiefs and Great Judges and indeed even some of the lesser. As the Faith Traitors do not believe in the creation of any image for the believe it to be sorcery, the tent is instead dressed with appealing patterns, much like a quilt, but this one was worn.
We came in to find the retinue of the Chief, assembled around the chief, who was old. They were all dressed very roughly: one man was dressed in an outfit made wholly of coonskin, and even the chief's fine robes (no doubt taken from some Arkansas potentate) were worm-bitten and fraying. We did kneel to the chief and presented those things that the savages value, and he nodded. We joined him and his retinue for a prayer in the manner of the New Israelites before eating. The prayers of the New Israelites take the form of a short sermon, given by the patriarch. When he had concluded, all said "Amen" (a commonality between many American tongues) and enjoyed a meal of simply cooked beef. Though we Eastrons did not understand the prayer, our Truckers did translate it for us after dinner.
The Chief (who was called Hawken) told the tale of the time when he was a young warrior, and the Black Guns rode with the Okies into Arkansas for pillage and booty despite the animosity of the two races. Hawken participated in the Sacking of Fort Smith, which Wilbur Griffin discussed in his chronicle of that territory. Hawken told how he rode through the city street as it went up in flames all around him, how he was laden with booty. The Black Guns were ready to divest from the raid, and so was he, until he saw a little girl in the flames. This little girl he took and with his wife (who was barren) they conceived to raise this farmer-girl who they would otherwise see as subhuman to be their own daughter, and Hawken said that he did love her.
Chief Hawken told how the Black Guns rode off from Arkansas to the west, where they came into some conflict with a tribe of Teksaners over grazing rights. Chief Hawken held himself bravely in the battle against the Teksaners. When the Chief was killed in battle, Hawken rose to the occasion and led the men to victory, wiping out that clan of Teksaners to the man. He was then acclaimed Chief. However, the very next day, Chief Hawken found that his adopted daughter, who he had been raising as a Cowgirl for several months, had been crafting dolls from corn husks. When interrogated, the girl admitted that she had been taught this in Arkansas, and that she had started making them on the same die that the old chief had died. Chief Hawken did what any Faith-Traitor would: he tried the girl, found her guilty, and had her stoned for idolatry.
Though this tale no doubt has some significance for the New Israelite regarding power, responsibility, and personal sacrifice, for us it shows only the cruelty of that accursed race.
We left the camp of the Black Guns first thing in the morning."
You know I wonder how technology generally differs from the original medieval period since I can't imagine all of modern knowledge being lossed and never recovered. (Unless everyone is trying to hold back technological development on purpose...) Maybe most armies are using surprisingly modern compound bows and repeating crossbows with body armor having improved beyond that of the original medieval plate. It might not be too much of a stretch for crude steam engines ment to pump out water from mines, which wouldn't be to far a stretch since Steel would be much more common than in the original medieval Europe.
What is the plague situation? We have COVID going now and plagues are a medieval thing so I've been wondering. Bubonic Plague exists out west and occasionally a child gets it from an animal in Yosemite. Scientologist California or New Age Arizona would have weird medicinal traditions that might make a Black Plague outbreak worse. Are there others? Are there Coronavirus or Ebola plagues? Would they be called Snake Pox and the Red Death?
Dar-as-Salam: Muslim Merchants of the Great Lakes
Dar-as-Salam: Muslim Merchants of the Great Lakes
Early on in the New Middle Ages, anti-Muslim sentiment was at a fairly high level. The War on Terror was still a fresh memory, and many blamed Muslims for America's downfall. Most Muslims across the country saw the writing on the wall, and would either convert or flee west to Colorado. Some, of course, stuck it out: they had lived where they lived for generations, and weren't about to leave behind the only life they had ever known: they were Americans, after all, and surely that counted for something.
As it turned out, it didn't count for much. In many cities along the Eastern Seaboard, they would survive as minority communities, perpetually harassed and put upon by the majority, subject to the occasional pogrom. Things were far worse in the interior of the country, and especially in the Great Lakes. Here, an already sizable Muslim community was confronted by a population petrified by early raids from Quebeckers, Canucks, what Evangelist warlords popped up, and the emergent Cowboys.
Thus, as so often happen, a scapegoat was sought and found in the large Muslims populations in the Rust Belt, most prominently in Dearborn, Michigan. Fading memories of 9/11 fueled the conviction that Muslims were somehow responsible for the decline of America, and that their removal could perhaps restore it. The first major pogrom occurred in Dearborn, where an angry mob created from several surrounding communities demanded that the Arab population either convert, leave, or die. The state government, relieved to see public pressure off them, refused to intervene. This act of genocide inspired similar acts across the Rust Belt, and a few others in Eastern America as a whole.
Muslim communities became more ghettoized and more controlled by the local potentates, who used and abused their marginalized status to the best of their ability. Many took the perilous journey West to the fabled lands of Kuluradu, though the odds of making it were about even with dying or enslavement. Others chose to leave the Great Lakes for the Eastern Seaboard, where things were somewhat more tolerant.
The Muslims that remained became tied to the land as artisans and manual laborers, forbidden to own or work the land lest they corrupt it. Any community that grew too prosperous was subject to pogrom; the same happened if a large enough plague or crop failure afflicted the kafirs.
The government of Michigan ran into a problem during one of the last great pogroms against its state's remaining Muslim population. A now muscular Nondenominational Church, once unable and unwilling to stop rogue governors from wrangling together more souls to fill Nondenominational pews, was starting to get uncomfortable with outright conversion by the sword type shenanigans what with the American ideal of freedom of religion. Largely, this shift in policy was due to more sustained and more civil contact between the US and peopls of other religions, and the beginning of an intellectual strain that would attempt to find a role for these differing faiths to play within God's plan for America.
A deal was brokered by the Church between the Muslims and the State Government of Michigan: offer the Muslims the choice of conversion or resettlement to the recently plague-depopulated town of Fruit Ridge and surrounding environs. Here, they would be allowed to work the once prosprous but long-dead apple orchards of the region. If they could supply a hefty tax to the Church and Michigan, they'd be allowed to maintain autonomy in their religious affairs and protection from angry mobs.
Led by the prominent Muqtar family, of Dearborn the Muslims succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Their first harvest was a particularly good one, and the community soon grew prosperous. Satellite communities would pop up throughout the Michigan Fruitbelt, and becoming one of the greatest cider suppliers in the Midwest. The Muqtars are one of the most prominent families in the Lake League and, following the proclamation of the County of Rockland and Non-Denominational Federalism, Islam finally received a government-approved status. The influence of the Fruit Belt Muslims has spread well beyond the Great Lakes, and has provided a common source of identity and institutions for the small Muslim communities of the East Coast. Rumor has it that the Muqtars are even in direct contact with the legendary emirates of Kuluradu.
Early on in the New Middle Ages, anti-Muslim sentiment was at a fairly high level. The War on Terror was still a fresh memory, and many blamed Muslims for America's downfall. Most Muslims across the country saw the writing on the wall, and would either convert or flee west to Colorado. Some, of course, stuck it out: they had lived where they lived for generations, and weren't about to leave behind the only life they had ever known: they were Americans, after all, and surely that counted for something.
As it turned out, it didn't count for much. In many cities along the Eastern Seaboard, they would survive as minority communities, perpetually harassed and put upon by the majority, subject to the occasional pogrom. Things were far worse in the interior of the country, and especially in the Great Lakes. Here, an already sizable Muslim community was confronted by a population petrified by early raids from Quebeckers, Canucks, what Evangelist warlords popped up, and the emergent Cowboys.
Thus, as so often happen, a scapegoat was sought and found in the large Muslims populations in the Rust Belt, most prominently in Dearborn, Michigan. Fading memories of 9/11 fueled the conviction that Muslims were somehow responsible for the decline of America, and that their removal could perhaps restore it. The first major pogrom occurred in Dearborn, where an angry mob created from several surrounding communities demanded that the Arab population either convert, leave, or die. The state government, relieved to see public pressure off them, refused to intervene. This act of genocide inspired similar acts across the Rust Belt, and a few others in Eastern America as a whole.
Muslim communities became more ghettoized and more controlled by the local potentates, who used and abused their marginalized status to the best of their ability. Many took the perilous journey West to the fabled lands of Kuluradu, though the odds of making it were about even with dying or enslavement. Others chose to leave the Great Lakes for the Eastern Seaboard, where things were somewhat more tolerant.
The Muslims that remained became tied to the land as artisans and manual laborers, forbidden to own or work the land lest they corrupt it. Any community that grew too prosperous was subject to pogrom; the same happened if a large enough plague or crop failure afflicted the kafirs.
The government of Michigan ran into a problem during one of the last great pogroms against its state's remaining Muslim population. A now muscular Nondenominational Church, once unable and unwilling to stop rogue governors from wrangling together more souls to fill Nondenominational pews, was starting to get uncomfortable with outright conversion by the sword type shenanigans what with the American ideal of freedom of religion. Largely, this shift in policy was due to more sustained and more civil contact between the US and peopls of other religions, and the beginning of an intellectual strain that would attempt to find a role for these differing faiths to play within God's plan for America.
A deal was brokered by the Church between the Muslims and the State Government of Michigan: offer the Muslims the choice of conversion or resettlement to the recently plague-depopulated town of Fruit Ridge and surrounding environs. Here, they would be allowed to work the once prosprous but long-dead apple orchards of the region. If they could supply a hefty tax to the Church and Michigan, they'd be allowed to maintain autonomy in their religious affairs and protection from angry mobs.
Led by the prominent Muqtar family, of Dearborn the Muslims succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Their first harvest was a particularly good one, and the community soon grew prosperous. Satellite communities would pop up throughout the Michigan Fruitbelt, and becoming one of the greatest cider suppliers in the Midwest. The Muqtars are one of the most prominent families in the Lake League and, following the proclamation of the County of Rockland and Non-Denominational Federalism, Islam finally received a government-approved status. The influence of the Fruit Belt Muslims has spread well beyond the Great Lakes, and has provided a common source of identity and institutions for the small Muslim communities of the East Coast. Rumor has it that the Muqtars are even in direct contact with the legendary emirates of Kuluradu.
Last edited:
tehskyman
Banned
What's the Kingdom of Rockland?
Non-Denominational Federalism sounds interesting, what exactly is it?
The Worshippers of Heisenberg
The following is taken from the "Travels to the West" by one Obadiah Olmstead, a celebrated Bostonian merchant who claimed to have personally travelled from Boston to California. This was an account of his encounter with a religious sect in New Mexico which was officially banned but tolerated by the New Age faith of the land.
"We had been told by guides and villages we passed that great mountains and salt flat deserts barred the way on the path we had trod. We were advised that to pass south, through the deserts was less lethal than to go through the mountain passes. The rulers of New Mexico strictly controlled water, their Water Boards rationing it to the peasantry, but they would give of it to passing traders. So too would it be with the Chief-King of Dineh and onward to California. To cross the mountains where fewer dwelt would be to invite being frozen in a mountain pass."
"We rode south through the edges and border marches of Kuluradu, the land of Texas and the Civilized Tribes. Several horses died of thirst or exhaustion, but we came upon the city of Albuquerque. The buildings are made of adobe and stucco for the most part. The Sandia mountains loom over the city and the land around it is quite barren, but the hydraulic kingdom keeps the city well irrigated and there are gardens and ample food. We reported to an office of the Downs Palace, where we were given rations of water and spiritual crystal amulets. Though it was not our faith, few faiths out this far from olden America were, so we took them out of politeness."
"We explored the city through the day, except in the afternoon when the streets were bare and all its citizens went home to nap, calling it "sesta". One of my fellows from Worcester went to a tavern and drank a sacred beverage of the local people called absinthe and began to act mad. We took him to the inn, but he began to hallucinate and ran forth into the night."
"We searched for him through the following day but found no sign. Finally, near evening, we asked again at the tavern, the Two Fools. We were told that, of the many religious sects of the land, some revering the Starmen of Roswell, some revering crystals, some revering Coyote, there was one sect that had a peculiar sacrificial ritual that might have taken him. He explained there was a group that revered a vampiric demon called Heisenberg. They believed if they took hostage drunks, beggars and other unfortunate lost souls, and extracted their teeth and painted the teeth blue, the ancient demon Heisenberg would bestow riches in barrels upon them."
Within an hour of this grim recounting, we found him, devoid of several of his teeth and quite bruised. He explained he had indeed been taken by these heathens and they had indeed taken some of his teeth while drunk and mad. He had come to from the pain and gone to fisticuffs with them and escaped, but was wounded. A visit to a barber and apothecary, one of the Zuni medicine men doctors that abound in the city, fit him with wooden teeth good enough for him to chew and not be useless to us.
We asked a herald at the Downs Palace of this and he told us that many New Age sects abound and the rulers and Water Board truly only care that taxes and levies of grain and gold are paid for water and tribute. And so we journeyed on."
New Mexican petroglyph of Heisenberg. It is said he was once a great alchemist in the Old World. He heard a prophecy of his death and sold his soul to two skinwalker brothers disguised as chickens for riches to will to his clan. He was given a blue potion to sell to the wretched and it drained their life but each time one of them died, gold coins would fill a series of barrels. He had an apprentice, the Pink Man, but the Pink Man could not give up his soul and fled to the north.
The following is taken from the "Travels to the West" by one Obadiah Olmstead, a celebrated Bostonian merchant who claimed to have personally travelled from Boston to California. This was an account of his encounter with a religious sect in New Mexico which was officially banned but tolerated by the New Age faith of the land.
"We had been told by guides and villages we passed that great mountains and salt flat deserts barred the way on the path we had trod. We were advised that to pass south, through the deserts was less lethal than to go through the mountain passes. The rulers of New Mexico strictly controlled water, their Water Boards rationing it to the peasantry, but they would give of it to passing traders. So too would it be with the Chief-King of Dineh and onward to California. To cross the mountains where fewer dwelt would be to invite being frozen in a mountain pass."
"We rode south through the edges and border marches of Kuluradu, the land of Texas and the Civilized Tribes. Several horses died of thirst or exhaustion, but we came upon the city of Albuquerque. The buildings are made of adobe and stucco for the most part. The Sandia mountains loom over the city and the land around it is quite barren, but the hydraulic kingdom keeps the city well irrigated and there are gardens and ample food. We reported to an office of the Downs Palace, where we were given rations of water and spiritual crystal amulets. Though it was not our faith, few faiths out this far from olden America were, so we took them out of politeness."
"We explored the city through the day, except in the afternoon when the streets were bare and all its citizens went home to nap, calling it "sesta". One of my fellows from Worcester went to a tavern and drank a sacred beverage of the local people called absinthe and began to act mad. We took him to the inn, but he began to hallucinate and ran forth into the night."
"We searched for him through the following day but found no sign. Finally, near evening, we asked again at the tavern, the Two Fools. We were told that, of the many religious sects of the land, some revering the Starmen of Roswell, some revering crystals, some revering Coyote, there was one sect that had a peculiar sacrificial ritual that might have taken him. He explained there was a group that revered a vampiric demon called Heisenberg. They believed if they took hostage drunks, beggars and other unfortunate lost souls, and extracted their teeth and painted the teeth blue, the ancient demon Heisenberg would bestow riches in barrels upon them."
Within an hour of this grim recounting, we found him, devoid of several of his teeth and quite bruised. He explained he had indeed been taken by these heathens and they had indeed taken some of his teeth while drunk and mad. He had come to from the pain and gone to fisticuffs with them and escaped, but was wounded. A visit to a barber and apothecary, one of the Zuni medicine men doctors that abound in the city, fit him with wooden teeth good enough for him to chew and not be useless to us.
We asked a herald at the Downs Palace of this and he told us that many New Age sects abound and the rulers and Water Board truly only care that taxes and levies of grain and gold are paid for water and tribute. And so we journeyed on."
New Mexican petroglyph of Heisenberg. It is said he was once a great alchemist in the Old World. He heard a prophecy of his death and sold his soul to two skinwalker brothers disguised as chickens for riches to will to his clan. He was given a blue potion to sell to the wretched and it drained their life but each time one of them died, gold coins would fill a series of barrels. He had an apprentice, the Pink Man, but the Pink Man could not give up his soul and fled to the north.
Last edited:
Truly the Hero of a Thousand Faces.
But I'm not sure if people would remember/pass down the millions of little stories contained within memes (along with all the context needed to understand some memes) as opposed to larger ones, which is why I'd give Jedi Buddhism and Esoteric Albuquerque Meth Shamanism a pass.
Some stuff like Pepe memes might survive through folklore, like leprechauns or demons, rather then complete religions. Ice Bucket Challenge becomes a story about how some local hero carries a bucket of ice through the desert for some heroic reason. Surviving My Little Pony toys become totems and symbols for safe travels for anyone working with horses.
Richard Drummond
Banned
I think Pepe could actually have a chance at surviving but only as a folklore creature of chaos. For the Heisenburg post, I think it would be better as part of an Atomicist branch of New Age followed by a few tribes which generates Heisenburg and also partakes in drug
tehskyman
Banned
Hmmm what are the distinct cultures that make up Medieval America
1. Dixie/Southerner : This has been covered under the Commonwealth of Mississippi and Georgia entries
2. Californian: Covered under the California entries
3. Cascadian : Partially covered under the Bhuddism entry
4. Laskan: Covered under Laskan entry
5. Mormon: Not covered
6. New Mexican: Not covered
7. Yankee: Not covered (might need separate entries for Midwesterner, Lake Landers, Hillbilly, Midatlantic? and New Englander)
8. Quebecois: Not covered
9. Maritimer: Not covered
10. Boreal and Arctic Tribes: Covered under Mushmush entry
11. Cowboys: Covered by Matthew White, could be expanded
12. Desert Tribesmen: Not Covered
1. Dixie/Southerner : This has been covered under the Commonwealth of Mississippi and Georgia entries
2. Californian: Covered under the California entries
3. Cascadian : Partially covered under the Bhuddism entry
4. Laskan: Covered under Laskan entry
5. Mormon: Not covered
6. New Mexican: Not covered
7. Yankee: Not covered (might need separate entries for Midwesterner, Lake Landers, Hillbilly, Midatlantic? and New Englander)
8. Quebecois: Not covered
9. Maritimer: Not covered
10. Boreal and Arctic Tribes: Covered under Mushmush entry
11. Cowboys: Covered by Matthew White, could be expanded
12. Desert Tribesmen: Not Covered