Map Thread XX

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The last time I posted a map in a map thread was nearly a year ago. I'm definitely still making things!! I just tend to run out of energy before completing a product. So yeah, I thought I'd take the opportunity to post a few WIPs I have in my repository but will likely never finish. There's lots of lost in progress maps out there I'm sure so its' nice to occasionally dump the ol' map folder out and see what people have been doing in the background.

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This map is essentially my cover of Calbear's Anglo/American-Nazi War with a couple of twists. I was particularly inspired by the concept of the current debatable disintegration of American unipolarity occuring in the 70s/80s.

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This map was called "Fire/Ice" and I'm not sure if there was any particular world-building behind it. A post-apocalyptic America that is split between Canada (Ice) and Mexico (Fire).

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This is as far as I got in a cover project for RoyalPsycho's Very Displaced. A few other mappers who took part in the same competition posted their completed products a while ago, I just never finished.
What is happening in France on the first map ?
And did you make a blank version of the third ?
Otherwise nice work !
 
Very nice. I am curious how Mongolia becomes Christian though.
Historically there had been a fairly sizeable Eastern Christian presence among steppe cultures, so that isn't too surprising to me. What I'm more interested in is that there appears to be a triangle signifying a Christian minority in Hokkaido. Was it meant to be Buddhist as with the rest of Japan or did Christian missionaries reach out to the Ainu at all here?
There was indeed a Nestorian presence among the Mongols and related peoples in OTL so I just elaborated on that, and I figured that from that base they would spread out further either by missionary work or migration and form communities further afield, as they did in OTL, so I put one in Aynu Mosir too.

Did Taiwan embrace Manichaeanism? It appears pink on the religious map.
Yes - in OTL, the Fujian coast was the last holdout of Manichaeism in China, so I figured it could make the hop over to Taiwan as well. Part of my thinking is also that, with Manichaeism surviving as a majority religion elsewhere and no strong Chinese state to suppress it, the White Lotus and other Chinese salvationist sects that were influenced by Manichaeism in OTL might have been explicitly Manichaean ITTL instead, accounting for the Manichaean prevalence across *China.
 
The Commonwealth of Virginia from the New Luxembourg timeline!
Coming up with state names is hard, good thing Wikipedia is a thing.
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"Virginia is one of the few loyal states the English have. Even after the American Uprisings, Virginia has stayed loyal to the crown and to England."
- The History of the Commonwealth by Edward K Montgomery
 
The Commonwealth of Virginia from the New Luxembourg timeline!
Coming up with state names is hard, good thing Wikipedia is a thing.
View attachment 657051
"Virginia is one of the few loyal states the English have. Even after the American Uprisings, Virginia has stayed loyal to the crown and to England."
- The History of the Commonwealth by Edward K Montgomery
Does this timeline have a separate thread or is it just here with these maps?
 

Stretch

Donor
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From a reverse map game I am playing with several friends offsite. Questions are surely welcome.
Ok, this raises many questions. But the only one I'm going to ask is this: any plans to cross post the game on this forum, in it's own thread? (Because the game is being played not on this site, it wouldn't really count as something to go on Shared Worlds)
 
I can't remember if someone's done this before, but I had the idea and I whipped up a quick map to illustrate.
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Something I realized about the New World in OTL: It's very east-oriented. The Atlantic is much smaller than the Pacific; the Pacific may have more accessible islands that are useful for navigation, but these are limited to the southern hemisphere. Once you get to the Americas from the west, you have to deal with a long chain of mountains and highlands from the Andes to the Rockies; a temperate coastal seafaring culture wouldn't have much to work with on the west coast except in California, and if you travel east from there you only get desert and mountains. By contrast, if you approach from the east, you have a temperate, low-lying eastern seaboard, massive navigable waterways in the Mississippi and Amazon rivers, fertile plains from Argentina to southern Brazil, and some of the best wheat-growing land just south of the Great Lakes.

So I flipped it. Now, if anyone tries to use Columbus's route, they'll probably starve before finding land. On the other hand, explorers from East and Southeast Asia would have a much easier time crossing the Pacific.

The Americas in this world have a different climate than OTL. The entirety of Quebec is fertile and has decent soil in a temperate belt that extends through Hudson Bay out to Lake Winnipeg, with about as much arable land as the entirety of Europe. The Northwest Passage is actually ice-free and navigable for around half the year. The area from Cape Cod to Delmarva has a decidedly Mediterranean climate. The stretch from North Carolina to Florida and the entirety of the Gulf of Mexico are varying degrees of desert; the sheer size of the Mississippi basin keeps the river flowing throughout the year, though it does have seasonal floods not unlike the Nile river. Mexico's pacific coast is a desert. The Caribbean is largely unchanged, as is Central America.
The Amazon Basin is still rainforest, but not quite as wet as OTL. The very tip of the continent, around Pernambuco, is tropical savannah. The Andes cast a massive rain shadow, making the southern half of Brazil and the northernmost part of Argentina a desert; even Australia is somewhat drier due to their influence. However, the Argentine and Brazilian coasts remain temperate, mild, and fertile. Patagonia is lush, temperate, and rainy, a bit like England. On the Atlantic coast, things are a bit different; the southern half of Chile is more or less desert, but the stretch from Valparaiso to Cali in Colombia is extremely rainy; all the moisture from the Atlantic trade winds are blocked by the Andes and is dumped on a few kilometers of coast. In North America, Baja California and Sonora are both lush monsoon rainforests reminiscent of Vietnam, and Cabo San Lucas is one of the rainiest cities in the world. SoCal is extremely humid, not unlike Guangzhou, and the enormous California Valley is probably even more fertile than before, though a bit cooler. Far northern California to Oregon is cool and temperate, comparable to OTL New England, while Washington is more like the Canadian maritime provinces. BC and Alaska are as cold and uninhabitable as Sakhalin and Kamchatka.

In considering cultures, I'm putting up a massive butterfly net to keep individual culture groups recognizable.

I imagine in this world East and Southeast Asian explorers would find the new world more accessible and attractive than European ones as in OTL. The Chinese or Japanese would eventually settle the Saint Lawrence waterway, which would become one of the most productive wheat-growing regions in the world, while rice would be more intensively cultivated around Delaware and Tidewater. Malay and Indonesians would discover the Brazilian coast, finding the Amazon region favorable to grow bananas, coconuts, and other tropical fruits.
The strains of corn that become popular in North America in this timeline would be hardier and more drought-resistant, as it would have been spread to the desert civilizations of the Mississippi before making its way to the Pacific coast. Potatoes, on the other hand, would be essentially unchanged.
The exchange of diseases would still heavily favor the Old World, perhaps even more than it did in OTL, but it would be interesting to see how the traditional Chinese model of tributary state networks would interact with the natives as opposed to the European model of conquest and subjugation.
In this TL, I imagine the largest cities would be in the central Mississippi river, mirroring ancient Egypt; whichever culture becomes dominant, the center of power would steadily migrate towards the mouth of the river, as this would have the most consistent flow of water. The Mesoamerican civilization would probably be centered more on the Uto-Aztecans such as Huichol in the South and O'odham or Paiutes in the North, rather than the Mayans that dominated in OTL. The Inca and other Andean civilizations, defined as they are more by altitude than anything else, would likely be more or less unchanged. Historically, the Chinese settled as merchants in places where there were already established cities, so I imagine they would congregate most heavily in the Mississippi river area, where there would be a robust trade network, the Colorado River region, where there would likely be complex civilizations that could trade in silver, and in the Andes, where they would also have silver. Before long, however, these cities would be struck by an onslaught of diseases, which would disproportionately affect natives and leave the merchants relatively untouched. It would be interesting to see how this dynamic - of traders looking to profit faced with the deaths of their trading partners - develops from there.
Europeans would spend a few centuries convinced that nothing of value exists in the Americas. They would become familiar with Alaska, perhaps, but considering it's even colder than OTL that might work more to its detriment than its benefit. Instead, Europeans will continue to focus on trade with India and Indonesia. However, without the influx of gold and silver that comes from the New World, they would find it more difficult to achieve the ascendant position they did in OTL. As ships become better built and are able to travel farther, they'll eventually make it to California, probably before the mid-1600s, where religious minorities would be attracted and eventually settle. However, the mountainous terrain would still discourage further exploration inland.
 
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I can't remember if someone's done this before, but I had the idea and I whipped up a quick map to illustrate.
View attachment 657155
View attachment 657198
Something I realized about the New World in OTL: It's very east-oriented. The Atlantic is much smaller than the Pacific; the Pacific may have more accessible islands that are useful for navigation, but these are limited to the southern hemisphere. Once you get to the Americas from the west, you have to deal with a long chain of mountains and highlands from the Andes to the Rockies; a temperate coastal seafaring culture wouldn't have much to work with on the west coast except in California, and if you travel east from there you only get desert and mountains. By contrast, if you approach from the east, you have a temperate, low-lying eastern seaboard, massive navigable waterways in the Mississippi and Amazon rivers, fertile plains from Argentina to southern Brazil, and some of the best wheat-growing land just south of the Great Lakes.

So I flipped it. Now, if anyone tries to use Columbus's route, they'll probably starve before finding land. On the other hand, explorers from East and Southeast Asia would have a much easier time crossing the Pacific.

The Americas in this world have a different climate than OTL. The entirety of Quebec is fertile and has decent soil in a temperate belt that extends through Hudson Bay out to Lake Winnipeg, with about as much arable land as the entirety of Europe. The Northwest Passage is actually ice-free and navigable for around half the year. The area from Cape Cod to Delmarva has a decidedly Mediterranean climate. The stretch from North Carolina to Florida and the entirety of the Gulf of Mexico are varying degrees of desert; the sheer size of the Mississippi basin keeps the river flowing throughout the year, though it does have seasonal floods not unlike the Nile river. Mexico's pacific coast is a desert. The Caribbean is largely unchanged, as is Central America.
The Amazon Basin is still rainforest, but not quite as wet as OTL. The very tip of the continent, around Pernambuco, is tropical savannah. The Andes cast a massive rain shadow, making the southern half of Brazil and the northernmost part of Argentina a desert; even Australia is somewhat drier due to their influence. However, the Argentine and Brazilian coasts remain temperate, mild, and fertile. Patagonia is lush, temperate, and rainy, a bit like England. On the Atlantic coast, things are a bit different; the southern half of Chile is more or less desert, but the stretch from Valparaiso to Cali in Colombia is extremely rainy; all the moisture from the Atlantic trade winds are blocked by the Andes and is dumped on a few kilometers of coast. In North America, Baja California and Sonora are both lush monsoon rainforests reminiscent of Vietnam, and Cabo San Lucas is one of the rainiest cities in the world. SoCal is extremely humid, not unlike Guangzhou, and the enormous California Valley is probably even more fertile than before, though a bit cooler. Far northern California to Oregon is cool and temperate, comparable to OTL New England, while Washington is more like the Canadian maritime provinces. BC and Alaska are as cold and uninhabitable as Sakhalin and Kamchatka.

In considering cultures, I'm putting up a massive butterfly net to keep individual culture groups recognizable.

I imagine in this world East and Southeast Asian explorers would find the new world more accessible and attractive than European ones as in OTL. The Chinese or Japanese would eventually settle the Saint Lawrence waterway, which would become one of the most productive wheat-growing regions in the world, while rice would be more intensively cultivated around Delaware and Tidewater. Malay and Indonesians would discover the Brazilian coast, finding the Amazon region favorable to grow bananas, coconuts, and other tropical fruits.
The strains of corn that become popular in North America in this timeline would be hardier and more drought-resistant, as it would have been spread to the desert civilizations of the Mississippi before making its way to the Pacific coast. Potatoes, on the other hand, would be essentially unchanged.
The exchange of diseases would still heavily favor the Old World, perhaps even more than it did in OTL, but it would be interesting to see how the traditional Chinese model of tributary state networks would interact with the natives as opposed to the European model of conquest and subjugation.
In this TL, I imagine the largest cities would be in the central Mississippi river, mirroring ancient Egypt; whichever culture becomes dominant, the center of power would steadily migrate towards the mouth of the river, as this would have the most consistent flow of water. The Mesoamerican civilization would probably be centered more on the Uto-Aztecans such as Huichol in the South and O'odham or Paiutes in the North, rather than the Mayans that dominated in OTL. The Inca and other Andean civilizations, defined as they are more by altitude than anything else, would likely be more or less unchanged. Historically, the Chinese settled as merchants in places where there were already established cities, so I imagine they would congregate most heavily in the Mississippi river area, where there would be a robust trade network, the Colorado River region, where there would likely be complex civilizations that could trade in silver, and in the Andes, where they would also have silver. Before long, however, these cities would be struck by an onslaught of diseases, which would disproportionately affect natives and leave the merchants relatively untouched. It would be interesting to see how this dynamic - of traders looking to profit faced with the deaths of their trading partners - develops from there.
Europeans would spend a few centuries convinced that nothing of value exists in the Americas. They would become familiar with Alaska, perhaps, but considering it's even colder than OTL that might work more to its detriment than its benefit. Instead, Europeans will continue to focus on trade with India and Indonesia. However, without the influx of gold and silver that comes from the New World, they would find it more difficult to achieve the ascendant position they did in OTL. As ships become better built and are able to travel farther, they'll eventually make it to California, probably before the mid-1600s, where religious minorities would be attracted and eventually settle. However, the mountainous terrain would still discourage further exploration inland.

Extremely interesting scenario!

But would the geographical changes be enough to alter the general East Asian attitudes towards exploration? Without a significant change in their political and economic conditions, I don't see why they would cross the pacific even if it's considerably easier ITTL...

Malays and Indonesians maybe, but they didn't even make it to Australia until extremely late, or anything east of west papua...

Honestly, I think the biggest game changer will probably be the increased proximity between Polynesia and South America. There is no way you won't get significant intereaction between these cultures ITTL.
 
Crossposting from the MotF thread. As always, comments, questions, criticism is welcomed and I hope you like it

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100.000 years ago, a cold streak of the climate, which threw much of the Northern Hemisphere into a glacial age, had the effect of drying out much of Africa and destroy much of the tropical rainforest around the Congo River, turning its lower river into ripe land for agricultural development. Bereft of their natural environment, the rainforest hunter gatherer peoples, the short-stature multitude of nations we would call 'pigmies', would learn to cultivate the native yams of the region, creating the first agricultural complex in the world and, with it, its first civilization, born on the shores of the great Mother River and supplied by massive river trade that would flourish for millennia afterwards.

This magnificent civilization, worshipping their Mother River, the stingless bees which they cultivated for honey and, with time, learning to read from the skies astrological data, would find in the line of the equator a meaningful omen, to which they'd dedicate much worship in the form of building their massive pyramids and temple complexes, the region becoming renowned for its holiness among those people. Their feats of engineering would be unmatched by any contemporaneous peoples, to whom the Congo-River civilizations would deride eternally as 'giants', brutish and unkept people useful for manual labor, intelligent cattle in all but name. Against their mighty armies was born the intelligent and organized expertise of civilized warfare, which would quickly turn the assaults on 'pygmy' settlements by 'giant' nomads on the opposite - expeditions to capture slaves from among the proud nomadic tribes.

This would set the stage for the expansion, somewhat commercial, somewhat martial, of agrarian society to the regions of the North, where the river is suddenly rendered unnavigable by the great waterfalls there. That natural stopping point for civilization grew to become important markets with the motherland in the lower river, end nodes to a trade that then went to other rivers, where there existed mines for gold, which became a prize possession of the region, greatly enriching it in a manner that, ultimately, would have it compete with the low-river economy. This competition would be heralded by the rise of a palatial economy, led by priest-kings of various cities, who legitimized their rule by building new pyramids, in the place where the equator crossed the river for a second time, expanding upstream beyond the falls to reach those lands. That would eventually lead to further upstream exploration and city-building.

The discovery of vast metal deposits in the upper river to the south, with vast sources of, among other things, copper, tin and cobalt, led to a massive economic surge in the region, one that would be accompanied by a military innovation - copper and later bronze weapons. Although copper had already been dabbled with in the north, mostly for ceremonial purposes, it was in the south that the bronze alloy and its properties were discovered, growing into an important societal factor that saw many old orders, including the pyramid-building priestly classes, overthrown. This societal change, heralding from upstream and slowly consuming its way up to the mouth of the river, would open a new chapter of the history of the earliest civilization, as a force mightier than anything the world had seen sailed down the river, conquering everything on its way...

But that's a story for another time in the long, long history of the peoples of Mother Congo.

_______________________________________________________________

So, this scenario is inspired by one of my favorite TLs in the forum, Empire of a Hundred Millennia: a Congo River Civilization TL. The basic premise there is malaria going extinct in early hominid history, leading to a much greater growth of human populations, especially in Africa, and allow the continent to develop quite sooner. It's a shame the TL is so short, but the basic idea is something that has fascinated me since I found it in my early days lurking here. So when this challenge came up, I decided to take it and finally do something about this.

In a turn of events I somewhat regret, I decided to really go to the effort and try to conjure up a language for these people, inspired by the languages spoken in the region by the "pygmy" peoples. It's actually a fascinating topic, but, shockingly I know, not one for two or three weeks of reading while studying for exam season. Anyway, I was able to conjure up a mock-language to fulfill a few words required, which is where we get the city names.

In any case, although it's great to be able to finally do something about this scenario, this is clearly not enough, and be warned that I will indeed do more about this idea (actually, the whole unification prospect at the end left me curious, I might just do a Congo Empire to see how it feels)

What else... oh, although I'm not sure it's visible or remarkable, I used this map as an opportunity to test blurriness in maps, I used it in the seas to give a sensation of depth and in the various regions to give an idea of it being more of an informal border than an actual polity. I don't know how well that was conveyed, but still

Anyway, hope you like this idea, and you can expect to hear more from these fascinating peoples
 
The fact that Spanish basque country is shown as having the lowest attachment to region is enough to prove this map is BS and should immediately be dismissed

If you look at the comments of the Reddit post the OP explains that it averaged out between people who feel highly attached to their region and people who feel highly attached to their country because it was very polarized compared to other regions (so probably Basque separatists did 10-1 for region-country while non-separatists did the opposite, causing the end result to be around 5-6~).
 
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If you look at the comments of the Reddit post the OP explains that it averaged out between people who feel highly attached to their region and people who feel highly attached to their country and the lack of overlap there (so probably Basque separatists did 10-1 for region-country while non-separatists did the opposite, causing the end result to be around 5~)
The methodology is wrong and the results are questionable, because this DOES NOT reflect the reality, non separtist basque certainly love more their region than the average in france or spain.
 
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