Map Thread XVII

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Isaac Beach

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Just a wee little Malagasy wank I thought up after the discussion had a few pages ago. I only had some patchwork notes on the background lore; the Zulu were displaced after raiding one too many Malagasy trade routes and were subsequently defeated by a Malagasy-Hlubi alliance, Oman lost Zanj War of Independence-style but decided it was better to join them then fight them and became Malagasy's window into Arabia, the Karnataka Alliance are a string of Hindu principalities afraid of the inland Sultans and so treating the Malagasy and recruiting thousands of Zanji mercenaries, and Malagasy colonisation of Australia is causing a continental shift in organisation and culture as the many hundreds of Aboriginal tribes adopt their technology and fight for dominance.

Malagasay Wank.png
 
Just a wee little Malagasy wank I thought up after the discussion had a few pages ago. I only had some patchwork notes on the background lore; the Zulu were displaced after raiding one too many Malagasy trade routes and were subsequently defeated by a Malagasy-Hlubi alliance, Oman lost Zanj War of Independence-style but decided it was better to join them then fight them and became Malagasy's window into Arabia, the Karnataka Alliance are a string of Hindu principalities afraid of the inland Sultans and so treating the Malagasy and recruiting thousands of Zanji mercenaries, and Malagasy colonisation of Australia is causing a continental shift in organisation and culture as the many hundreds of Aboriginal tribes adopt their technology and fight for dominance.

View attachment 360752

I for one welcome our new Malagasy overlords.
 
Just a wee little Malagasy wank I thought up after the discussion had a few pages ago. I only had some patchwork notes on the background lore; the Zulu were displaced after raiding one too many Malagasy trade routes and were subsequently defeated by a Malagasy-Hlubi alliance, Oman lost Zanj War of Independence-style but decided it was better to join them then fight them and became Malagasy's window into Arabia, the Karnataka Alliance are a string of Hindu principalities afraid of the inland Sultans and so treating the Malagasy and recruiting thousands of Zanji mercenaries, and Malagasy colonisation of Australia is causing a continental shift in organisation and culture as the many hundreds of Aboriginal tribes adopt their technology and fight for dominance.

View attachment 360752
madagascar-pandemic-shut-down-everything.jpg
 
x2NAsti.png

I finished the map I started yesterday. Maybe. I'm still debating on if I want to go further and add more cities/railways and start to label rivers and islands. I'm leaning towards no, because of how much work I've put into this map already. As always, the map conforms to my almost existing but not quite TL "Our Fair Country". This particular map was printed in 1938, and it was commissioned by the New England Bureau of Records and Statistics (now Statistics New England). It shows the entire Dominion of Canada as she was on 1 June 1938. Canada had 7 provinces (Newfoundland, Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Columbia) and 4 territories (Alaska Territory, Yukon Territory, North-West Territories, Labrador).

Canada's population is anchored in Ontario (3.7m), Quebec (3.3m), and Columbia (2.8m). There is a still a sizable amount in the Prairies with Manitoba (720k), Saskatchewan (860k), and Alberta (780k) all having rapidly growing populations. The territories are sparsely populated, with the Alaska Territory (61k) being the largest. It is followed by the Yukon Territory (19k) and the North-West Territories (15k). Labrador has a very small population (>1k), and most affairs are handled by Ottawa. Newfoundland (300k) is Canada's most isolated province, with most shipping and communications going through the Commonwealth of New England prior to Canada. Canada's population of 12.23 million is smaller than New England's population of 15.06 million, although it is growing at a faster rate per year.
 
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I finished the map I started yesterday.

In the west, thats the kind of Canada I can really get behind! In the east not so much.:confused:

Why has labrador been separated from Newfoundland TTL?

Its a pretty map and looks well detailed without
being overwhelming.

Nitpick about the lakes on your
basemap though, lake Nipissing definitely does not get nearly that close to Lake Huron, and some of the other lakes look a bit weird too.
 
I finished the map I started yesterday. Maybe. I'm still debating on if I want to go further and add more cities/railways and start to label rivers and islands. I'm leaning towards no, because of how much work I've put into this map already.

It's very fine as it is. War of 1812 divergence, or earlier?
 
In the west, thats the kind of Canada I can really get behind! In the east not so much.:confused:

Why has labrador been separated from Newfoundland TTL?

Its a pretty map and looks well detailed without
being overwhelming.

Nitpick about the lakes on your
basemap though, lake Nipissing definitely does not get nearly that close to Lake Huron, and some of the other lakes look a bit weird too.

Labrador, as a whole, was provisionally awarded to Quebec. Once Newfoundland finally joined the Confederation, Labrador was separated due to conflicts with Quebec City, and placed under the nominal control of Ottawa.

Thanks for the nitpick about the basemap. The lakes were, by far and away, my most hated thing about the map. I spent a lot of time trying to get them right, but nothing I did seemed to go good, so I just sorta gave up after 5+ hours of looking at lakes.

It's very fine as it is. War of 1812 divergence, or earlier?

Thanks. The divergence took place more during the settlement of New England, the history is detailed here. I always struggle finding the exact POD that was meaningful, things just, in general, happened differently.
 
What is this? Xianfeng Emperor finishing something?

No fancy, overly long writeup this time. Kinda unhappy with how it turned out, but it had just been infuriatingly sitting on my desktop for...I don't even know how long.

eQ2DWJO.png

It is an age of oppression; it is an age of opulence. It is an age of brutality; it is an age of the arts blossoming full.

Mhmm. I feel like when working on maps that represent an older time, marking out the unpopulated lands really looks much better than provinces. But I did use this on my islamwank on the previous thread.

I was thinking around 200BC. The actual POD is that Cyrus the Great is defeated by Media, at which he flees East, even making it to India where his descendants did what Achaemenids do.

Medes replaced the Persians of OTL, forming their own great Empire, though never to the scale of the Achaemenids. Said Empire fell to a Scythian invasion, breaking up, with what remained of the state holing up to the West in Armenia.

All the purplish states are Scythian states that barged in during Median decline, but so far, few of them have been truly able to secure their rule. All this has allowed Kemet to emerge as a contender for hegemony as the 26th Dynasty threw off the Kushites and rose to prominence.

As for Italy...Yes. That is Rome, and much butterfly genocide. Really have no idea what to do with Western Europe.


So what is up with this Egypt's radical cultural genocide on the regions it conquer? I don't think OTL Ancient Egypt did that, or if so, I missed that part.

Did the Medes have it version of the Greco-Persian Wars. If so, who won?

Who is running the show in Greece?

What does this Indian Achaemenid look like?
 
--EUROPE AND THE NEAR-EAST: 800 AD--

V6RJ4uT.png


When the Roman Empire destroyed the nascent Vandal Kingdom in 469 AD, it was seen as a windfall for the long-suffering west. Despite a failed attempt by the Vandals to catch the Roman fleet by surprise during negotiations with a fleet of fireships, the joint eastern-western expedition had soon restored not just the empire’s southern flank, but the long-missed grain shipments and revenue as well. The west would survive.

However, the empire was already changing. The position of western emperor was increasingly under the command of Germanic strongmen who began operating more and more despite the Eastern Empire’s objections. As the Eastern Empire began to fall to its own issues closer to home during the sixth and seventh centuries, the strongmen had uncontested control of their corner of the empire, and the office of the emperor became little more than a figurehead surrounded by constant court intrigue. This culminated in 556 when the Pope himself began intervening in court politics during an invasion of Italy by the Franks. By the end of the century it was the papacy, not the military strongmen, who was the undisputed master of the Western Roman Empire. The Pope, as God’s servant on Earth, was the one who could make and unmake emperors. As time went on, the divide between east and west became more and more apparent. There was never a formal declaration of independence by either side; both saw themselves as the Roman Empire and the other as a wayward usurper. By the mid-eighth century however, the reality was clear when open war broke out between them, following a mutual ex-communication by the Papacy and Patriarchy.

In the east, things went poorly. Despite early attempts to keep tabs on the Western Empire, the eastern emperors soon found themselves dealing with multiple threats on other fronts, from an increasingly hostile Sassanian Empire to the east to a new wave of barbarian tribes to the north looking to settle in the Balkans and Caucuses, to religious turmoil at home. In 624, the increasing rivalry between the two great empires of the near east came to a head when what should have been yet another border war erupted into a full-scale bloodletting when the Eastern Empire backed a Sassanian usurper—the exiled brother of the new ruler. The attempt ended poorly, and soon after the Sassanian Empire invaded Syria and Anatolia (as well as began a purge of Christians within its own territory in an attempt to remove possible Roman fifth columns). The thirty-year war exhausted both empires, though the Eastern Empire felt the brunt of it. While the Romans managed to push the Iranians back, they never managed a decisive victory. Northern Mesopotamia was seceded to the Sassanian Empire.

Six years later, the crippled Eastern Empire, busy with a new wave of invasions from the north, could do little as Egypt, their richest province, rose up in rebellion. Egypt had been taken by the Sassanian Empire for a solid twenty years during the war, loosening Roman control over an already hostile province. Heavy-handed attempts to restore order after the war only further alienated the Egyptian populace, and despite a brief retaking of Alexandria in 662 and an expedition from Antioch in 667, the empire never restored its control over the Monophysite province.

The new Kingdom of Egypt, independent for the first time in centuries, took its cue from its ancient heritage, much as Western Europe did from Rome in our own timeline—a mishmash of half-remembered facts and myths cobbled together. The knowledge of how to read hieroglyphs were long forgotten, but faint cultural impressions remained. The new Coptic Pharaohs were Christian; a prime example of God’s grace and forgiveness. Just as He had used the Assyrians and Babylonians as his instruments, so to did he use the former enemies of the Hebrews. Just as He had forgiven the Roman Empire for its persecutions against the Christians, so to now would Egypt rise, its penance as a conquered and humbled state now ended.

Despite the inherent rivalry between Egypt and Constantinople however (both seeing the other as heretics), more often than not they would find themselves on the same side of the battlefield thanks to a re-surging Sassanian Empire.

In Europe, the Germanic kingdoms grew from mere de-jure military governorships of the Western Roman Empire into true realms. The Visigothic Kingdom, despite temporarily losing Aquitaine to the Franks in the early-sixth century, soon recovered and by the end of the sixth century controlled a nascent empire stretching from North Africa to the Loire River. Attempts to expand further into Africa were foiled however, by the native Mauri kingdoms, who have been slowly eating away at Roman territory in the region.

The Franks almost had an empire, more than once, but their style of succession has been their undoing. Five de-facto independent kingdoms now stand from the Loire to the Vistula. Every so often they will unite again, and go forth to conquer. But every time, they will inevitably fall apart again. Both they and the Visigoths once entertained a political fiction of being subservient to the Roman Empire politically, but that had vanished, only to be replaced by the political fiction of being subservient to the Roman Empire religiously, thanks to the Pope.

The Danube serves as the ultimate frontier between the Eastern Empire and the succession of Germanic and Slavic tribes that have tried time and time again to invade and take Greece for themselves. But the ancient Balkan defenses, despite bleeding and raw from countless raids, still hold. Numerous minor kingdoms and former-steppe empires have begun to pop up in Pannonia and Dacia—from west to east, the Lombard Kingdoms who have recently shaken off Frankish control, the remains of the Avar Khaganate (formerly in control of the entire region before their disastrous attempt to take Constantinople), the Bulgarian Empire, and centered north of the minor kingdoms of the Caucuses, the Khazars. While the Visigothic and Frankish realms orbit around the Western Empire however, the Bulgar and Avar kingdoms have begun to orbit around the East.

To the far north, the Age of the Vikings is has begun a bit ahead of schedule from our timeline—the Celtic and Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of the British Isles have been feeling it since the mid-eighth century, and in the last few years the coasts of the Frankish realm has begun getting hit.

India remains a hodgepodge of kingdoms and states.

Arabia has become a three-way battle for control between Egypt, Aksum, and the Sassanian Empire. During the great war between Constantinople and Ctesiphon, Aksum took the initiative and reconquered Himyar for its own interests (Iran’s only real loss in the war), and has been extending its influence along the coast of the Horn of Africa as well. However, the social and religious pressures in Himyar are building something unique. A strange Jewish sect, a remnant the old pre-Aksumite state religion combined with native pagan traditions, is gaining ground. Only time will tell what happens there.

In this timeline, Late Antiquity takes on a somewhat different nature; the shift to a medieval world takes a mildly softer approach. The great centers and trade routes of the Mediterranean remain intact and cultural progression continues a bit more naturally than it otherwise would have been.
 
upload_2017-12-17_14-21-1.png

Alt 900 AD/CE
The Frankish Empire rises out of Charlemagne's Empire, after Charlemagne's death, happening 10 years after OTL, he is able to effectively pick one of his sons and one of their sons to continue the rule of the empire, giving smaller autonomous powers to his others relatives. While the empire still has a small cultural split between the west and east franks, as well as the Italian franks (shown by different shades of blue in the empire), they are all unified under one ruler and a sense of nationalism (except for an empire) sustains itself in the empire.
Because of the increased loyalty, the empire is able to militarize and begin new military campaigns.
Border changes-
Many new tributary states and surrounding states the new Frankish empire are annexed,
A campaign is led on surrounding islands, islands like Corsica are annexed
A Campaign is led in Iberia against the Muslims, the Non Islamic kingdoms in Iberia are aided by the Franks,
While there are different forms of Christianity in the new Frankish Empire, they are all united in a cause to defeat Islam
Frankish Empire aids the Byzantines in the annexation of Crete and Cyprus
Frankish Empire manages to defend Byzantine Sicily and Malta from Arab invasions, Emirate of Sicily doesn't form instead Emirate of Tunis forms.
PoD - 822 - 840's
 
--EUROPE AND THE NEAR-EAST: 800 AD--

V6RJ4uT.png


When the Roman Empire destroyed the nascent Vandal Kingdom in 469 AD, it was seen as a windfall for the long-suffering west. Despite a failed attempt by the Vandals to catch the Roman fleet by surprise during negotiations with a fleet of fireships, the joint eastern-western expedition had soon restored not just the empire’s southern flank, but the long-missed grain shipments and revenue as well. The west would survive.

However, the empire was already changing. The position of western emperor was increasingly under the command of Germanic strongmen who began operating more and more despite the Eastern Empire’s objections. As the Eastern Empire began to fall to its own issues closer to home during the sixth and seventh centuries, the strongmen had uncontested control of their corner of the empire, and the office of the emperor became little more than a figurehead surrounded by constant court intrigue. This culminated in 556 when the Pope himself began intervening in court politics during an invasion of Italy by the Franks. By the end of the century it was the papacy, not the military strongmen, who was the undisputed master of the Western Roman Empire. The Pope, as God’s servant on Earth, was the one who could make and unmake emperors. As time went on, the divide between east and west became more and more apparent. There was never a formal declaration of independence by either side; both saw themselves as the Roman Empire and the other as a wayward usurper. By the mid-eighth century however, the reality was clear when open war broke out between them, following a mutual ex-communication by the Papacy and Patriarchy.

In the east, things went poorly. Despite early attempts to keep tabs on the Western Empire, the eastern emperors soon found themselves dealing with multiple threats on other fronts, from an increasingly hostile Sassanian Empire to the east to a new wave of barbarian tribes to the north looking to settle in the Balkans and Caucuses, to religious turmoil at home. In 624, the increasing rivalry between the two great empires of the near east came to a head when what should have been yet another border war erupted into a full-scale bloodletting when the Eastern Empire backed a Sassanian usurper—the exiled brother of the new ruler. The attempt ended poorly, and soon after the Sassanian Empire invaded Syria and Anatolia (as well as began a purge of Christians within its own territory in an attempt to remove possible Roman fifth columns). The thirty-year war exhausted both empires, though the Eastern Empire felt the brunt of it. While the Romans managed to push the Iranians back, they never managed a decisive victory. Northern Mesopotamia was seceded to the Sassanian Empire.

Six years later, the crippled Eastern Empire, busy with a new wave of invasions from the north, could do little as Egypt, their richest province, rose up in rebellion. Egypt had been taken by the Sassanian Empire for a solid twenty years during the war, loosening Roman control over an already hostile province. Heavy-handed attempts to restore order after the war only further alienated the Egyptian populace, and despite a brief retaking of Alexandria in 662 and an expedition from Antioch in 667, the empire never restored its control over the Monophysite province.

The new Kingdom of Egypt, independent for the first time in centuries, took its cue from its ancient heritage, much as Western Europe did from Rome in our own timeline—a mishmash of half-remembered facts and myths cobbled together. The knowledge of how to read hieroglyphs were long forgotten, but faint cultural impressions remained. The new Coptic Pharaohs were Christian; a prime example of God’s grace and forgiveness. Just as He had used the Assyrians and Babylonians as his instruments, so to did he use the former enemies of the Hebrews. Just as He had forgiven the Roman Empire for its persecutions against the Christians, so to now would Egypt rise, its penance as a conquered and humbled state now ended.

Despite the inherent rivalry between Egypt and Constantinople however (both seeing the other as heretics), more often than not they would find themselves on the same side of the battlefield thanks to a re-surging Sassanian Empire.

In Europe, the Germanic kingdoms grew from mere de-jure military governorships of the Western Roman Empire into true realms. The Visigothic Kingdom, despite temporarily losing Aquitaine to the Franks in the early-sixth century, soon recovered and by the end of the sixth century controlled a nascent empire stretching from North Africa to the Loire River. Attempts to expand further into Africa were foiled however, by the native Mauri kingdoms, who have been slowly eating away at Roman territory in the region.

The Franks almost had an empire, more than once, but their style of succession has been their undoing. Five de-facto independent kingdoms now stand from the Loire to the Vistula. Every so often they will unite again, and go forth to conquer. But every time, they will inevitably fall apart again. Both they and the Visigoths once entertained a political fiction of being subservient to the Roman Empire politically, but that had vanished, only to be replaced by the political fiction of being subservient to the Roman Empire religiously, thanks to the Pope.

The Danube serves as the ultimate frontier between the Eastern Empire and the succession of Germanic and Slavic tribes that have tried time and time again to invade and take Greece for themselves. But the ancient Balkan defenses, despite bleeding and raw from countless raids, still hold. Numerous minor kingdoms and former-steppe empires have begun to pop up in Pannonia and Dacia—from west to east, the Lombard Kingdoms who have recently shaken off Frankish control, the remains of the Avar Khaganate (formerly in control of the entire region before their disastrous attempt to take Constantinople), the Bulgarian Empire, and centered north of the minor kingdoms of the Caucuses, the Khazars. While the Visigothic and Frankish realms orbit around the Western Empire however, the Bulgar and Avar kingdoms have begun to orbit around the East.

To the far north, the Age of the Vikings is has begun a bit ahead of schedule from our timeline—the Celtic and Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of the British Isles have been feeling it since the mid-eighth century, and in the last few years the coasts of the Frankish realm has begun getting hit.

India remains a hodgepodge of kingdoms and states.

Arabia has become a three-way battle for control between Egypt, Aksum, and the Sassanian Empire. During the great war between Constantinople and Ctesiphon, Aksum took the initiative and reconquered Himyar for its own interests (Iran’s only real loss in the war), and has been extending its influence along the coast of the Horn of Africa as well. However, the social and religious pressures in Himyar are building something unique. A strange Jewish sect, a remnant the old pre-Aksumite state religion combined with native pagan traditions, is gaining ground. Only time will tell what happens there.

In this timeline, Late Antiquity takes on a somewhat different nature; the shift to a medieval world takes a mildly softer approach. The great centers and trade routes of the Mediterranean remain intact and cultural progression continues a bit more naturally than it otherwise would have been.

wow, I should just cut out the americas and east asia like you did for my timeline! then I could make the maps way more larger, I feel stupid LOL nice map btw.
 
Thanks! If you're looking for more/better maps than just the base globe, you'll find plenty in the Blank Map Thread just a few down from this one.
 
--EUROPE AND THE NEAR-EAST: 800 AD--

V6RJ4uT.png


.

Very nice.

So...Jewish version of the Muslims out of the Himyar?

Egypt got it Pharaonism on. Are the old Egyptian Gods like Angels, or something like that?

How are the Sassanian Empire?

Best way for the Eastern Roman comeback, and best way to screw the Western Romans, or at least bring down the powers of the Church?

Which of the Franks can united all the Frank Kingdoms, and it last?
 
Very nice.

So...Jewish version of the Muslims out of the Himyar?

Egypt got it Pharaonism on. Are the old Egyptian Gods like Angels, or something like that?

How are the Sassanian Empire?

Best way for the Eastern Roman comeback, and best way to screw the Western Romans, or at least bring down the powers of the Church?

Which of the Franks can united all the Frank Kingdoms, and it last?

Yep! That'd be an ATL Islam equivalent only two centuries late to the party.

As for Egypt, that would be unlikely. The old Egyptian religion was completely extinct by this time, and despite all the pomp and circumstance around the new Pharaohs, they wouldn't be actively looking to old gods that no one cares about anymore. They were mistakes of an uninitiated people, like Greco-Roman paganism. Think of new!Egypt's relationship with its past as like Charlemagne's empire's relationship with the old Roman Empire. The titles are there, the pretense at continuity is there, and some of the iconography and imagery has been adopted, but by and large it is its own new thing.

For the Romans, anything can happen. It might seem like the West has the upper hand at the moment, but the West is having trouble keeping its African borders intact, while the East's borders have mostly stabilized at this point, with competent buffer states to the north that are starting to adapt a lot of Eastern culture and religion. The West also only has a sort of theoretical hold on the Germanic kingdoms--they'll give serious pause before attacking, but as in OTL, the Pope's authority outside his own kingdom is transient when it's not convenient.

The Franks are in a tough spot, an endless cycle of unification and division. The opportunities that presented themselves in OTL, namely the Holy Roman crown, don't exist here, and instead they remain trapped by their own inheritance policy. They'll need something to pull them out of that--maybe some Charlemagne counterpart who refuses to split his kingdom up. It's actually entirely possible that nothing does, and that instead they'll crystallize into several small European countries stretching from northern Gaul all the way to Prussia.

The Sassanians are doing just fine. The great war ended favorably for them, and while they drained their treasury, the war was never taken to their doorstep. They now stand as the only genuine superpower of the region.
 
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