List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

[Dragonboy]

Hopefully Matilda of Boulogne can keep a tight ship doing young Eustace's regency!

with him beign the rightful heir of henry i there can't be any reasonable challangers. she will keep a good goverment.

 

[Cate13]

It's not apparent from the tree, but here, Louis VII's older brother doesn't die and he marries Eleanor of Aquitaine instead. I might add an addendum for that at some point

This is an interesting idea all on its own. I do hope you explore it sometime.

 

[King of Danes]

with him beign the rightful heir of henry i there can't be any reasonable challangers. she will keep a good goverment.

Indeed but child rulers are fodder for uppity vassals

This is an interesting idea all on its own. I do hope you explore it sometime.

Indeed! One might think that the French monarchy would be much stronger with them inheriting Aquitaine but if Eleanor has as many sons as otl and if they are as feuding as otl then there is plenty of options for the Capetians to waste this position

 

[ordinarylittleme]

POD: The second son of Charles V survived.

Ferdinand I, Duke of Burgundy (1529-1562) m. 1554 [1] Elizabeth of England (1533-1603)
1) Henry IX of England (1555-1620) m. Katherine I of England and I of the Netherlands (1555-1611) [2]
2) Ferdinand II, Duke of Burgundy (1560-1610) m. Margaret of Austria (1567-1633)
3) Elizabeth (1563-1609) m. James VI of Scotland (1566-1625)


[1] Double wedding with Philip and Mary
[2] Daughter of Philip and Mary

 

[AztecXVII]

Alfonso, Prince of Portugal is born a girl. Marries Manuel I of Portugal.

Portugal
John II m. Eleanor of Viseu
a. Isabel of Portugal m. Manuel I of Portugal
i. John III of Portugal m. Eleanor of Austria
ii. Alfonso, Duke of Beja m. ??
iii. Isabel of Portugal m. ??
iv. Manuel II, Duke of Viseu m. Guiomar Coutinho, 5th countess of Marialva
v. Fernando, Duke of Guimarães m. Isabel of Braganza
vi. Leanor of Portugal m. ??

b. Eleanor of Portugal m. Juan, Prince of Asturias
i. Stillborn daughter

c. Stillborn son
d. Alfonso, Prince of Portugal (died age 2)
e. John, Prince of Portugal (died age 3)


Spain
Isabel I of Castile m. Ferdinand II of Aragon
a. Isabel II m. Francis I Phoebus of Navarre (a) Ferdinand II of Naples (b)

ai. Isabel m. Francis I of France
aii. Miguel I of Spain m. Elizabeth the Elder of England
aiii. Antonio, Duke of Granada, Marquis of Cañete and Viceroy of Hispaniola m. Maria of Savoy
aiv. Francis Ferdinand, duke of Gandía and count of Barcelona m. ??

bi. José I of Naples m. Isabella of Austria
bii. Maria of Naples m. Charles III of Savoy

b. Juan, prince of Asturias m. Eleanor of Portugal
i. Stillborn daughter

c. Juana of Castile m. Philippe IV of Burgundy, Holy Roman Emperor

i. Karl V, Holy Roman Emperor m. Anna of Bohemia
ii. Ferdinand, Duke of Wüttemberg m. ??
iii. Eleanor of Austria m. John III of Portugal
iv. Isabella of Austria m. José I of Naples
v. Johann, Lord of the Netherlands m. Isabella of Savoy
vi. Joanna of Austria m. Christian II of Denmark
vii. Philippe, Cardinal
viii. Fredrick, Archduke of inner Austria m. ??
ix. Massimiliano, Duke of Milan m. Elizabeth of England

d. Maria of Aragon m. Philibert II, duke of Savoy

i. Charles III of Savoy m. Maria of Naples
ii. Maria of Savoy m. Antonio, Duke of Granada
iii. Isabella of Savoy m. Johann, Lord of the Netherlands
iv. Philibert of Savoy m. ??

e. Catherine of Aragon m. Arthur I of England

i. Elisabeth of England
ii. Henry VIII of England
iii. Ferdinand I of England
iv. Mary of England m. Philippe Duke of Palatinate-Neuburg
v. Edward, duke of Somerset m. Catherine Parr
vi. Catherine of England m. ??

@BlueFlowwer @ordinarylittleme @isabella

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

What if Alfred, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha’s marriage to Duchess Elsa of Württemberg went though?

Alfred I, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1844-1900), r. 1893-1900, m. 1874, Maria Alexandrovna of Russia (1853-1920)

1) Alfred II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1874) [1], r. from 1900, m. 1897, Elsa of Württemberg (b. 1876)​

- a) Alfred Eugen, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1898)​

- b) Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1899)​

- c) Prince Ernest Josias of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1901)​

- d) Princess Marie Elsa of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1903)​

2) Princess Marie of Edinburgh (b. 1875), m. 1893, Ferdinand, King of Romania (b. 1865), r. from 1914​

Issue as OTL​

3) Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1876)​

m1. 1894-1901, Ernst Ludwig, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine (b. 1876), r. from 1892​

- a) Princess Elizabeth of Hesse and by Rhine (b. 1895) [2]​

m2. 1905, Cyril Vladimirovich of Russia (b. 1876)​

Issue as OTL​

4) Princess Alexandra of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1878), m. 1896, Ernest II, Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg (b. 1863)​

Issue as OTL​

5) Princess Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1884), m. 1909, Infante Alfonso of Spain, Duke of Galliera (b. 1886)​

Issue as OTL​

[1] Alfie doesn’t contract syphilis/tuberculosis and thus lives longer than in OTL.
[2] Survives to adulthood ITTL.

Any suggestions for the spouses of Alfred II’s children and Elizabeth of Hesse would be appreciated.

 

[LoyalHistoryBuff]

What if Alfred, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha’s marriage to Duchess Elsa of Württemberg went though?

Alfred I, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1844-1900), r. 1893-1900, m. 1874, Maria Alexandrovna of Russia (1853-1920)

1) Alfred II, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1874) [1], r. from 1900, m. 1897, Elsa of Württemberg (b. 1876)​

- a) Alfred Eugen, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1898)​

- b) Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1899)​

- c) Prince Ernest Josias of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1901)​

- d) Princess Marie Elsa of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1903)​

2) Princess Marie of Edinburgh (b. 1875), m. Ferdinand, King of Romania (b. 1865), r. from 1914​

Issue as OTL​

3) Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1876)​

m1. 1894-1901, Ernst Ludwig, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine (b. 1876), r. from 1892​

- a) Princess Elizabeth of Hesse and by Rhine (b. 1895) [2]​

m2. 1905, Cyril Vladimirovich of Russia (b. 1876)​

Issue as OTL​

4) Princess Alexandra of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1878), m. 1896, Ernest II, Prince of Hohenlohe-Langenburg (b. 1863)​

Issue as OTL​

5) Princess Beatrice of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (b. 1884), m. 1909, Infante Alfonso of Spain, Duke of Galliera (b. 1886)​

Issue as OTL​

[1] Due to him rising a family, Alfred II’s mental health is in a better state than in OTL.
[2] Survived to adulthood ITTL.

Any suggestions for the spouses of Alfred II’s children and Elizabeth of Hesse would be appreciated.

Very interesting. At least, this means that Charles Edward, Leopold's son, will stay in the United Kingdom and thus would have far better reputation than he did OTL. Leopold and Helen would be disappointed in their son and I know that Alice, his sister, was not happy with him when she found out about his actions.

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

Very interesting. At least, this means that Charles Edward, Leopold's son, will stay in the United Kingdom and thus would have far better reputation than he did OTL. Leopold and Helen would be disappointed in their son and I know that Alice, his sister, was not happy with him when she found out about his actions.

Any scenario where Charles Edward doesn’t become a terrible person is always a good one.

Speaking of which, I’m planning on doing a follow up for this scenario centering around the Dukes of Albany. One idea I have in mind for it is that one of Charles Edward’s descendants marries this timeline’s equivalent of Elizabeth II.

 

[Salma Amer]

Philip IV of Spain (b. 1605-?) married Elizabeth of France (b. 1602-?) ​

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Charles II of Spain (b. 1621-d. 1689) m​

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Maria Margaret (b. 1623-d. 1691) m​

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Isabella Maria Theresa (b. 1627-d. 1693) m​

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Philip Prospero (b. 1629-d. 1654)​

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Margaret Theresa (b. 1638-d. 1683) m​

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Anne of Austria (b. 1601–d. 1666) m Louis XIII, King of France (b. 1601-d. 1643)​

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Louis XIV, King of France (b. 1619-d. 1681) m​

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Philippe, Duke of Orleans (b. 1622-d. 1690) m Anne Marie Louise d'Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier (b. 1627-d. 1693) with issues​

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Anne Marie, Madame Royal (b. 1626-d. 1689) m​

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Marie Henriette (b. 1631-d. 1695) m​

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Henry, Duke of Anjou (b. 1638-d. 1715) m​

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Charles, Duke of Berry (b. 1640-d. 1701) m​

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[Salma Amer]

Maximilian I, Elector of Bavaria (b. 1573–d. 1651) m Elizabeth of Lorraine (b. 1574-d. 1635) in 1595

Maximilian II, Elector of Bavaria (b. 1599–d. 1662) m Margaret of Lorraine (b. 1600-d. 1671) ​

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Ferdinand, Elector of Bavaria (b. 1620-?) m ​

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Elizabeth Renata (b. 1623-?) m​

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Catherine (b. 1626-?) m​

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Maria Christina (b. 1630-?) m​

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Maria Renata (b. 1603-d. 1678) m Nicholas II, Duke of Lorraine and Bar (b. 1603–d. 1678) ​

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Catherine Renata (b. 1619-?) m​

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Henry III, Duke of Lorraine and Bar (b. 1623-?) ​

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Claude (b. 1625-?) m​

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Elizabeth Renata (b. 1631-?) m ​

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Elizabeth Christine (b. 1608-d. 1612) ​

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Catherine de Bourbon (b. 1559-d. 1604) married Henry II, Duke of Lorraine and Bar (b. 1563-d. 1624) in 1599

Margaret (b. 1600-d. 1671) m Maximilian II, Elector of Bavaria (b. 1599–d. 1662)with issues​

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Nicholas II, Duke of Lorraine and Bar (b. 1603–d. 1678) m Maria Renata of Bavaria (b. 1603-d. 1678) with issues​

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[Salma Amer]

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Philip I, Grand Duke of Toxana (b. 1577–d. 1633) m Maria of Spain (b. 1580–d. 1646) ​

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Philip II, Grand Duke of Toxana (b. 1600-?) m ​

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Juana (b. 1604-?) m ​

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Maria Anna (b. 1608-?) m​

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Eleanor (b. 1612-?) m​

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Isabella (b. 1616-?) m​

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[isabella]

POD: The second son of Charles V survived.

Ferdinand I, Duke of Burgundy (1529-1562) m. 1554 [1] Elizabeth of England (1533-1603)
1) Henry IX of England (1555-1620) m. Katherine I of England and I of the Netherlands (1555-1611) [2]
2) Ferdinand II, Duke of Burgundy (1560-1610) m. Margaret of Austria (1567-1633)
3) Elizabeth (1563-1609) m. James VI of Scotland (1566-1625)


[1] Double wedding with Philip and Mary
[2] Daughter of Philip and Mary

Mary is unlikely to marry Philip here and in any case their daughter would NOT get the Netherlands as the whole Burgundian inheritance will go to Ferdinand here. A childless match between Mary and Charles V is far likelier in this scenario

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Due to him rising a family, Alfred II’s mental health is in a better state than in OTL.

So Young Affie is one of those historical characters that's intriguing because it's a situation where you're just close enough to see what happens/happened but not close enough to hear the whole story. Re: his death, there are several versions of events:

The first, from no less a reliable source than his aunt Vicky attributes the mental decline of Young Affie to syphilis contracted running around with "all sorts" in Berlin. This caused him to lose his wits and do the unthinkable. In a letter to Sophie, Queen of Greece, Vicky writes:

I knew how shocked and grieved you would be at the terrible death of your poor cousin. It is indeed terrible. You ask about the cause. It is true that he was giddy and wild, as many young men alas are, and that he contracted an illness of which I know next to nothing, as I have never asked or heard anything about it, one dislikes thinking about it, and still more speaking or writing about it. This was neglected, and the poor boy led a dissipated life besides. Potsdam! -- there was not the place for him. He was too inexperienced and heedless and giddy to resist temptations, bad examples, etc. It is not all too miserable! I loved that boy, but there was something irresistibly taking about him. He was one of those who are not fit to take care of themselves, not from evil disposition but from weakness of character.

The second version of events, comes from his sister, the queen of Romania.

Per her account, her brother's health, never strong to begin with, simply broke down. There was no suicide as is commonly reported, and the cause was speculated to be a tumour or consumption rather than syphilis.

"All of the church bells of Gotha began ringing and we heard the muffled tones of a funeral march, and Mamma, generally so sober of movement, so undemonstrative, sank to her knees, crossing herself many times and then burst into tears. Mamma! Mamma who always hid every motion; it was an overwhelming sight; Mamma weeping for her first-born.""

The third version is from Burke's Peerage:

he shot himself. Unfortunately, he could not have chosen a more awkward moment for his tragic action, as it occurred in the midst of his parents' silver wedding anniversary celebrations. Though severely wounded, he survived. Angry at so embarrassing an incident occurring when all the family was present, Duchess Marie, against the wishes of the doctors, insisted on having her son moved to Meran, where it was hoped he would recuperate. But the journey proved too much, and young Alfred died alone save for the presence of a doctor and his manservant.

Now...Burke's and Marie of Romania's recollections seem to differ. Marie of Romania (who was present) describing her mother's reaction (and having been to funerals where parents' have to bury their child) makes it seem unlikely that the duchess would've responded as Burke's describes it. Marie says her mother never showed emotion (a sentiment most of her children agreed on), and that she was "generally undemonstrative", but now we are to believe that she flew into a rage at being embarrassed by such a scandal (per Burke's)? Yes, maybe she did act out-of-character and was pissed- I'd probably be- but being pissed enough to ignore doctors' advice when they're telling you your only son, your firstborn, will die- that takes a whole different category of pissed. Not normally seen when someone you love tries to commit suicide (if indeed he did). If the duchess did order him to be moved, I suspect it was in the hope that it would improve his weak health (the woman had lost her own brother to, depending on the account, tuberculosis or meningitis, her father had been murdered brutally in the street), not because she was furious. If she is to blame it was because of a tragic coincidence rather than wounded pride or malicious intent.

There's also no reason that all three can't be true: he contracted syphilis/tuberculosis was sent to Meran in the hope that the milder climate would improve his health and died on the way there.

 

[isabella]

Mary I’s six husbands
POD is Henry VIII dying in 1516

Mary I, Queen of England (b. 1516) married a) Henry Brandon (1516-1522) in 1518, b) Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey (1517-1529) in 1523, c) John, Prince of Denmark (1518-1532) in 1530, d) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1518-1534) in 1533, e) James V, King of Scotland (1512-1545) in 1535, f) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558) in 1546,

1. c) Catherine of England (b. 1532) married Philip II, King of Spain in 1546
2. d) Madeleine, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1534)
3. e) Henry, Prince of Wales and Duke of Rothesay (1537-1539)
4. e) Margaret of England and Scotland (b. 1538)
5. e) James II, King of England and Scotland (b. 1540)
6. e) Mary of England and Scotland (1542-1546)
7. e) Alexander, Duke of Albany and York (b. 1544)
8. f) John, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1547)
9. f) Elizabeth of Austria (b. 1549)
10. f) Maximilian II, Duke of Milan (b. 1550)
11. f) Eleanor of Austria (b. 1552)

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Mary is unlikely to marry Philip here and in any case their daughter would NOT get the Netherlands as the whole Burgundian inheritance will go to Ferdinand here.

Why? Charles would be even LESS likely to remarry with two sons. I stand corrected on the Netherlands.

A childless match between Mary and Charles V is far likelier in this scenario

I mean, what changes if they have a kid? I'd let Mary have this win here

b) Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey (1517-1529) in 1523
d) Francis III, Duke of Brittany (1518-1534) in 1533
f) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1554) in 1546

RIP, but half her husbands dying younger than OTL is kind of funny

d) Madeleine, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1534)

I suppose she marries OTL Charles II d'Orléans?

Mary I, Queen of England (b. 1516) married Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1554) in 1546,

1. c) Catherine of England (b. 1532) married Philip II, King of Spain in 1546

Is that even allowed? Surely that's incest by canon law?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Philip II, Grand Duke of Toxana (b. 1600-?) m​

OTL Anna, Queen of France?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Is that even allowed? Surely that's incest by canon law?

Can and did happen OTL. Maryland Karl just have to allow their kids to marry before THEY marry or Felipe marries Katherine after the death of either parent

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Can and did happen OTL. Maryland Karl just have to allow their kids to marry before THEY marry or Felipe marries Katherine after the death of either parent

It's probably the former, since Charles is marked as dying after the marriage...so you are saying that the parents of a married couple can marry freely?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

It's probably the former, since Charles is marked as dying after the marriage...so you are saying that the parents of a married couple can marry freely?

provided there is no other impediment to the marriage, AFAIK, under canon law there's nothing against it

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

SNIP

That’s some interesting information to know.