Lands of Red and Gold, Act II

[Petike]

You know, already in the past, I've thought about what the theme tune for Lands of Red and Gold could be... Something that should include some traditional Australian instruments, but also feel a little alien musically.

After some searching, I think this track wouldn't be half-bad as a theme tune. It has a bit of didgeridoo, some varied mysterious vocals, but even a duduk (a decidedly Middle Eastern instrument). Given the advances of this TL's Aururia, mixing an instrument reflecting Australia's Paleolithic past with musical elements that evoke Aururia's later historical eras and the mysticism of some of its religions is a pretty good fit.

 

[LunazimHawk]

I wonder what the British's end plan for Australia is this TL. They can probably use their Yadji to subjugate the other coastal kingdoms, but even then, the interior will be mostly untouchable. Plus we got nomads in the interior, now that's interesting.

 

[LunazimHawk]

OTL the British practiced a horrible policy of child kidnapping and land grabs of Aboriginal tribes, hopefully they catch a spear to the face when try try it in this Alt TL.

 

[Jared]

I wonder what the British's end plan for Australia is this TL. They can probably use their Yadji to subjugate the other coastal kingdoms, but even then, the interior will be mostly untouchable. Plus we got nomads in the interior, now that's interesting.

The British don't really have an end plan for *Australia as such. That implies rather more forethought than goes into their planning. The EIC (and its rival company, of which more anon) have a simple attitude: they want to make as much money as possible via dominating trade. They want to do that by controlling markets and (where possible) driving out competitors. They don't set out with the idea of conquering the whole of the continent, just trying to control the trade flowing in and out and to have captive markets within those borders.

So the EIC essentially wants to have the Yadji as a captive market, and would like the same from the other states and regions if they possibly could. But this comes from a perspective of being a trading company out to make money, not to become major controllers of land. As with India, conquest of the whole land is not the objective - though that's not to say that they might not end up controlling large parts of the continent without ever really setting out a plan to accomplish that.

OTL the British practiced a horrible policy of child kidnapping and land grabs of Aboriginal tribes, hopefully they catch a spear to the face when try try it in this Alt TL.

Given the spread of trade, they'd be more likely to get a musket ball in the face than a spear.

 

[mojojojo]

I was reading about the Gadawan Kura of Africa

and the gypsies of Europe

Is there a similar group of traveling entertainers/soothsayers in Australia.If so, would they be the ones who invented (or at least popularized) boxing kangaroos?

 

[naraht]

and the gypsies of Europe

Is there a similar group of traveling entertainers/soothsayers in Australia.If so, would they be the ones who invented (or at least popularized) boxing kangaroos?

I'm trying to remember whether we got an answers as to whether the various Marsupial Carnivore have survived iTTL (Tasmanian Tiger(Thyalcine), Tasmanian Devil, others). Tasmanian Devils *might* be able to be trained in the same way.

The other question in regards to that type of animal is whether there would be any effort to keep the Dingo as a separate entity or would it simply be viewed as a breed of domesticated dog which will be viewed as a regional breed like the Malemute.

iOTL, the question as to whether the dingo is a separate species is a controversial one with professionals having one of three opinions: Wolf, Dog and Dingo are three species, Wolf is one species, Dingo and Dog are another as well as a one species model.

 

[Somebody-Someone]

Was Usman dan Fodio an inspiration for the Hunter?

 

[Dominic]

Any word on the Hunter arc? I need to get some LoRaG in me.

 

[Somebody-Someone]

Could potential Pliri missionaries in Japan frame it as a different kind of Buddhism?
It is similar enough (as previously noted) that they could be construed as variants of the same thing.
Although the Japanese would object to a foreign religion, they would not object as much to Buddhism wearing a new hat.
If you think that they are too different from each other, some Japanese people thought that Christianity was a new form of Buddhism.

 

[Jared]

Was Usman dan Fodio an inspiration for the Hunter?

Not directly. I know very little about his history or that of the Sokoto Caliphate.

The Hunter was broadly inspired by a combination of various nomadic confederations - most obviously the Mongols - and a variety of religious visionaries and nation-builders, such as Mohammed and Napoleon. None of these inspirations was too close: more resonances than parallels.

And, of course, the Hunter's ultimate fate was inspired by

Any word on the Hunter arc? I need to get some LoRaG in me.

I'm aiming for mid-February, subject to maps getting completed. Too much going on before then to be able to post them in a regular sequence.

Could potential Pliri missionaries in Japan frame it as a different kind of Buddhism?
It is similar enough (as previously noted) that they could be construed as variants of the same thing.
Although the Japanese would object to a foreign religion, they would not object as much to Buddhism wearing a new hat.
If you think that they are too different from each other, some Japanese people thought that Christianity was a new form of Buddhism.

I've had various discussions in this thread (and offline) about whether and how Plirism could spread to Japan.

I've never settled on a definite outcome, mostly due to lack of familiarity with Japan in this period and also because it will be an Act III question, so I can still throw around ideas for a while without needing to make a definite decision.

One likely possibility is that Okinawa itself will convert to Plirism. They're the main point of contact with Nuttana traders, and there is a definite advantage to converting to Plirism if you're trading with the Nuttana. (They will offer better deals because they trust you to honour the contracts, and it also plugs you into their information network). Plirism also syncretises very easily with their indigenous religion, which helps.

Whether that spreads further into Japan is a harder question, of course. Another possibility I'm toying with is whether some Plirites will interpret Buddhism as a forerunner to Plirism. That is, a suggest that Siddhartha Gautama was a past life of the Good Man, and that he developed his insights further and proclaimed the true path later. I have some reservations about that idea (such as not wanting to be seen as disrespectful to any real-world religion), but it remains an idea I may develop.

 

[Mark-ITSOT]

Have any Nuttana ships rounded the Cape of Good Hope yet?

 

[mojojojo]

I'm trying to remember whether we got an answers as to whether the various Marsupial Carnivore have survived iTTL (Tasmanian Tiger(Thyalcine), Tasmanian Devil, others). Tasmanian Devils *might* be able to be trained in the same way.
.

Jared siad they go extinct on the mainland like they did OTL. IIRC they die out in Tasmania as well, do the the much earlier introduction of dogs

 

[Jared]

Have any Nuttana ships rounded the Cape of Good Hope yet?

Yes. In 1683 the first Nuttana expedition circumnavigated the southern hemisphere by sailing past the three great capes (going east). Over the next few years they started navigating the Atlantic and were visiting Europe and the east coast of North America before the turn of the century.

 

[LunazimHawk]

Have the Yadji ever taken to keeping alligators as pets? I know that might sound absurd, but I've seen plenty of stories of alligators being kept as actual family pets in places such as Malaysia. I wouldn't really put it beyond the Yadji to have literal alligators living in their man made swamp in their backyard, and alligator/crocodile leather could be a luxury item for them to export.

 

[aldonius]

Have the Yadji ever taken to keeping alligators as pets? I know that might sound absurd, but I've seen plenty of stories of alligators being kept as actual family pets in places such as Malaysia. I wouldn't really put it beyond the Yadji to have literal alligators living in their man made swamp in their backyard, and alligator/crocodile leather could be a luxury item for them to export.

Unlikely.

The Yadji are in some of the southernmost parts of the mainland. There's 10-12 degrees of latitude between their northern borders and the southernmost extent of either of Australia's native crocodile species. Crocodilians are a tropical and subtropical species. Yadji territory gets frosts.

I also went looking over global crocodilian distribution maps, and the most poleward species all max out at about 35 degrees of latitude, which is what I'm taking as the maximum equatorward extent of the Yadji.

 

[naraht]

I also went looking over global crocodilian distribution maps, and the most poleward species all max out at about 35 degrees of latitude, which is what I'm taking as the maximum equatorward extent of the Yadji.

As far as I know, the American Alligator is by far the most cold resistant of Crocdilian species and definitely lives north of 35 degrees latitude (reaches between 37 & 37.5 degrees latitude along the North Carolina/Virginia coasts) It can definitely survive frosts but grows more slowly in colder weather and simply doesn't breed until it reaches 6 feet long (so if an already mature alligator was released north of that it would survive and breed, but it's offspring wouldn't).

And yes, some people in the USA keep them as pets, the species while endangered in the 1970s due to DDT issues with eggs is now numerous enough to not only be off the list, but viewed as abundant. And if the Yadji would like some, just talk to the State of Florida, they'll be happy to donate.

And people are rooting for them against the invasive Burmese Python.

 

[Somebody-Someone]

ON JAPAN :
The reason why christianity was banned was because christians had conquered (forcibly) major states in the region (the Philippines) and there were christian rebels in Japan.
The Nuttanna are not exactly conquering anyone and there are probably not going to any pliri revolts.
Also, plirism would seem less foreign than christianity, especially if it is presented as a form of buddhism.

If plirism spreads in the merchant and artisan classes, then the religious divide in Japan will not be
shinto buddhists vs plirists
but rather
confucian shinto buddhists vs pliri shinto buddhists (both of whom will view the tenno as a leader of some sort)

The main divide in this system is that the plirite merchants and artisans will think themselves superior to the samurai and the confucian samurai will think themselves far superior to the merchants and artisans.

However, the mercantile aristocrats may convert. The Satsuma would likely be first, followed by the rulers of Tsushima and Nagasaki. Possibly also the Matsuma if the Nuttanna reach that far north. (Will they? Perhaps if they think they can get a better deal there than in Okinawa, or if they are trading with Siberia.). The other ruling families, though, will likely be strongly opposed.

 

[Somebody-Someone]

Is this TL dead?

 

[Jared]

Is this TL dead?

It's not dead. As I posted in this thread last month, the remaining sequence of posts about the Hunter story arc is due to start being published in the middle of February. I can't start them before then because there will be too many interruptions where I can't post a reliable sequence.

It takes me a while to respond to posts in this thread (and the Decades of Darkness thread) because the questions which people tend to ask here require time to provide a full answer, not just a couple of lines response. Since I have extremely limited spare time nowadays, I usually respond in bulk to questions in this thread whenever I get enough time to sit down and provide detailed responses.

 

[Jared]

Update: Confirming that the rest of the Hunter sequence is coming around about 17 February.

The maps and artworks which had been planned to accompany this sequence are unfortunately not available, as the mapmaker has gone offline the last few months. (I hope they're okay and just busy elsewhere, but have no way to check). So I've opted with simply publishing the rest of the sequence of posts for now, with maps to be published as and when they're available.

Given that it's been quite a while since the last Hunter posts, people may want to refresh themselves about the previous Hunter posts or about the timeline in general. I prepared a recap post a while back which brings everything up to date, which is here. If you would like to re-read the Hunter-specific posts in the meantime, these start at post #101 here (or just use the threadmarks).

I'll try to respond to the outstanding questions in this thread some time between now and 17 February, and then the rest of the Hunter sequence will resume. Once started, I plan to publish the remaining chapters roughly once per week until the sequence is completed. (And don't ask me exactly how many posts there are, since that would be spoilerific in itself. The "upcoming posts" footnote at the end of the last published chapter, which was published on 1 April last year, was not surprisingly an April Fool's Day joke and bears very little resemblance to the actual posts in the Hunter Sequence, apart from a couple of chapter titles).