Hope the Spanish Civil War rework keeps to the tripartite split spirit.
Well, kinda. Or sometimes. Otherwise it's probably gonna be two rounds of two-sided civil wars.
Hope the Spanish Civil War rework keeps to the tripartite split spirit.
@Worffan101 please, can you use your critical view and eloquence to rant about the greatest ententeaboo scenario, "The crown atomic"? I would love to see you comment about how Canada got jets before Germany and how they can somehow compete with countries like the US on economy size.
That was a really neat piece of alt-hist start to finish. The little stories from in universe characters were really well written and the new world and cultures that spawned were really interesting and fleshed out. Sure it's implausible but it was based on a play-through where he played Canada in a game... What's your beef?
The unplausibility, and the aus taking the stupidity virus from the drakaverse.
I have nothing against the writing, it is so.well done that if the world is a utopia or a dystopia is entirely up to your interpretation.
I mean, of course its implausible, but it's just a story based on decisions by the AI. But it's certainly pretty interesting to write and read about a fucked up America. I'd argue those elements are the AAR's strongest points, you get to imagine a world where the former US is collection of collapsing, authoritarian states.
They are not, apart from the main AUS all the other states are pretty good and prosperous places apart from the authoritarism.
I get that last part, but IMO the pillar of "faithfulness to the original concept" is a poisoned chalice. I firmly believe that the best and most entertaining changes KR's made in the past 2 years have been the ones that threw out long-standing lore and options, such as the Italy rework, the China rework, and the USA rework. If I were to wave a magic wand, I'd actually have India look more like China but with Bharat as the big dog looking to take on a coalition of mostly Muslim princes in the west and a Hindu-nationalist republican movement in the south, with some separatist groups in the far north. But that would be insanely hard to make function in-game, so accounting for playability I'd probably scrap the Nizam and have southern India be under the control of a Hindu-nationalist republic. Delhi I would scrap the Entente connection entirely, making it the "Delhi Emergency Government of the Indian Nation" or something, a kinda "band together for dear life" coalition of traditional rulers and noveau-riche liberals, with a "good" path of becoming a multicultural, multireligious democratic republic and a "bad" path of becoming a repressive authoritarian coalition of monarchies, and replace it with a focus representing Ottawa's backing of the regime which provides a small boost to doctrine research or something. And if Madras and the Nizam come to blows and Madras wins, it can form a liberal "Republic of India" and open negotiations with the Delhi and/or Gandhi for unification. (which would probably be the "best" ending, with a multiparty democracy with a Pacific States-style "keep the laws that work" system)
Quite simply, I don't see how the fig leaf of being a British dominion is helpful for anything other than mooching from Ottawa.
There are focuses to have Red or pro-Federation diehards rise up, but Delhi can have its own diehards rise up against the Nizam and Calcutta, too. Which makes it seem more like they're infiltrating a core rebel cadre to disrupt enemy operations more than the states are unstable.
The war with Afghanistan doesn't seem to have much of a point outside of demonstrating that Delhi is a functional state, and I question whether the initial border, the desire of Delhi to return to the Durand line, and the apparent desire of Delhi to keep a lot of Pashtuns who would probably prefer to be part of afghanistan inside their country, really work in context.
IDK. I just don't really like the way that the Dominion is the most loyal Entente member in-game. The Princely Federation is more implausible but Delhi is just existentially frustrating. Bharat is a bit dated in terms of focus tree times and how the content works to play but it at least makes good sense and the paths are relatively unique, enjoyable, and distinctive.
OK, so the aristocrats were happy to join the war, and could convince enough people that this meant de facto independence, but post-WW1 what's changed? IOTL Mont-Ford was a slap in the face, and I suspect that the average Indian citizen wasn't as happy to join the war as the "martial princes".Then you do not understand the historical development of modern India just before and after the First World War. India had enthusiastically joined the war: "... the swords of the martial princes leapt from their scabbards" when the call from London came. It was decidedly understood that the war would bring about Home Rule - Dominion status. It would take the interwar and war years filled with British autocracy and reduction of personal liberties to swing the pendulum in favour of complete unabashed independence. By maintaining links with the Entente, the Delhi government keeps the quite solid argument that its authority is directly descendent from the previously undisputed state actor on the subcontinent. Out of three successor states, I would say that they have the most international recognition.
This is the sum total that the KR Timeline page on the wiki has to say about India:I think you should reread the timeline one more time to be honest and then write a well-thought and researched counter to it. I would love to read it!
This is what the Dominion wiki page says:India, once the pearl in the British crown breaks down into three new states. The Dominion of India (colloquially "Delhi") retains control of the northwest, while the Indian National Congress forms its own government, the Bhartiya Commune. The Princes of the south form their own, independent Princely Federation. Burma becomes an independent kingdom once again.
This is more like a British-in-exile lapdog than a nominally loyal but de facto independent state. Also, there's no mention of Mont-Ford being anything but as insulting and authoritarian as OTL.In 1925 the syndicalist revolution in Britain precipitated the collapse of the British Empire, and the constituent parts of which were rather abruptly left to find their own way. In India, a combination of princes, rajahs, nationalists, imperialists, and syndicalists started to fight for the control of the sub-continent. During those riots, some elite Sikh regiments refused to take arms against their compatriots by giving an example for large numbers of other troops in the indigene army. The revolts quickly spread to the rest of India. The short-lived Sikh Confederacy fought among many other lands for independence during the chaos. The Sihks sought to negotiate a state of semi-autonomy with Delhi, in December 1925 a group of Sikh fanatics closed themselves in the Sikh Holy City of Amritsar. Two days later, a British soldier, one Arthur Hale leading a band of ninety native soldiers armed with machines guns and mustard gas attempted to expel the rebels by force, breaking the negotiations. This attack was successful and the Dehlian forces captured the city of Amritsar, breaking the back of the Sikh rebellion.
Realizing the impossibility of these tumultuous events being resolved favorably for the Empire, the Viceroy and Governor-General of India Isaacs in January 1926 chose to create a free nation in the northwest of India under his leadership in the hopes that someday the Royalists would return to Britain and the Empire be restored. The move received harsh criticism from some, India as a united colony was after all was still considered ‘the Jewel of the Empire’, but the Royalist government in Canada realized and accepted the necessity of the move in keeping a hold of the sub-continent. The new state of Delhi has thus remained in a close partnership with Canada and her allies of the former Entente, and it was agreed that in order to appease the local population Muhammed Shuja Al-Mulk should be placed on the throne as Prince of Delhi, to be advised by a mixed group of Indians and British advisors. In the decade since its formation, Delhi has struggled to consolidate her position in India, clearing out several of the smaller regimes that had sprung up, and maintaining a strong front against the syndicalist forces in Bengal. However, while Delhi remains strong against external threats, internal divisions are widening. Political clashes concerning national vs. regional power are resulting in a polarization of political life, manifesting in the Sanghavadi and Rashtravadi Parties. Unless action is taken this political infighting may end up tearing Delhi apart from within. The road ahead for Delhi looks difficult no matter what course it steers.
Please share them!I’d actually love an India rework and I do have a number of ideas.
But the Durand line is a border drawn on a map by imperialists who didn't understand a damn thing about the people whose land they were carving up. IOTL it's a major root cause of instability in Pakistan and Afghanistan since it leaves both countries with sizable angry nationalist ethnic minorities. And like I said, if a bunch of Pashto sheperds don't want to be part of India, then why try to force them? It presents a security problem for a veneer of "legitimacy", restoring it announces an intent to return to borders drawn by foreign conquerors...how is this a good thing?Again, I don't own Hearts of Iron 4 (and don't think I honestly ever will) so I can't comment on the mechanics and how the lore has been fitted to them. On paper, all three states are unstable. If someone feels that should be explicitly stated I would probably (if I had the time and drive) code a simple "internal problem X causes dissent of Y" and make it conditional on different triggers. As for your other point (which no longer is tied to the name of the war??), I think you overestimate the Western concept of nationalism in an Indian context. India as a whole (and the North West in particular) is a massive patchwork of interwoven ethnicities and religious creeds. Restoring the Durand Line cements the government's legitimacy by restoring the pre-war borders of the Raj - i.e. undivided India.
Again, I don't own Hearts of Iron 4 (and don't think I honestly ever will) so I can't comment on the mechanics and how the lore has been fitted to them. On paper, all three states are unstable.
The US-economy crashs 1925, because the british revolution cause a financial panic. I think it get worser, because Germany fights a trade war aagainst the USA and cutting her out of more and more markets (China). German sphere booms till 1936, till the bubble burst.I've always wondered how the Great Depression panned into something so terrible in the United States when the Credit of the Entente Debt crashed things in the early 20s rather than late 20s. Without a major roaring 20s boom, how does the depression and then Black Monday happen at the same time? If Germany is the center of global credit and economic power, why does a crash of the New York stock market 29 still hit extremely hard?
OK, so the aristocrats were happy to join the war, and could convince enough people that this meant de facto independence, but post-WW1 what's changed? IOTL Mont-Ford was a slap in the face, and I suspect that the average Indian citizen wasn't as happy to join the war as the "martial princes".
This is the sum total that the KR Timeline page on the wiki has to say about India:
But the Durand line is a border drawn on a map by imperialists who didn't understand a damn thing about the people whose land they were carving up. IOTL it's a major root cause of instability in Pakistan and Afghanistan since it leaves both countries with sizable angry nationalist ethnic minorities. And like I said, if a bunch of Pashto sheperds don't want to be part of India, then why try to force them? It presents a security problem for a veneer of "legitimacy", restoring it announces an intent to return to borders drawn by foreign conquerors...how is this a good thing?
I also think that the name "Delhi" shouldn't be used anymore since it is not the official name, it would be like calling the AUS as "Union" or the CSA as "Syndicalists". Instead Delhi should be "Dominion of India" and the barathia could be "Commune of India".
ALso the civil war on Princely federation happens all the time now, it is not like on DH that you could find a compromise when creating the Kaiser of India avoiding it. Maybe the civil war could only happen if the stability falls below 30%.
It is the ONLY timeline I can find pertaining to KRTL India.
That's... the oldest timeline and not the one behind the current setup. I suggest you read that one before actually commenting.
It is the ONLY timeline I can find pertaining to KRTL India.
OK, but is this official? Is this the actual, official lore for the mod?Go to google. Write "Kaiserreich, India Timeline" third hit from reddit links to a post of mine from 2018:
Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg
There's also the League of American States but it's kinda boring to me in that it's pretty much the Western Allies of WWII without any direction as to how to get itself entangled in Europe's wars. The League of American States is about protecting the Western Hemisphere, its goal is to not get...www.alternatehistory.com
In this very thread no less!
OK, but is this official? Is this the actual, official lore for the mod?
And more importantly, your timeline still includes events like the Amritsar massacre that IOTL led to the Indian independence movement becoming irreconcilably split from Britain. Even with Gandhi still halting non-cooperation, that plus the more obvious British weakness SHOULD still critically weaken the loyalists and Home Rule advocates more than OTL, and on top of that, the collapse of Britain should be even more of a credibility blow.
Your timeline makes Delhi look like a military regime run by and for traditional elites with a fig leaf of liberalism and loyalty to Ottawa, though at least it has more detail than the ridiculously truncated lore the wiki has.
It's a colloquial name. Like referring to the Commune as Calcutta or the Federation as Hyderabad.
That's definitely not how it was intended to function.
Hmm, OK. It's not reflected on the wiki at all.I think so. Of course I can’t speak for the current team, but it’s the timeline I used when I coded the subcontinent back in the day. To the extent that my work is used in the current build then that’s the lore.
I mean that the British exiles shouldn't have any sort of influence at all and Delhi shouldn't even be a member of the Entente, because British friendliness has been so comprehensively exposed as a total lie and British power has been so comprehensively broken.Newsflash: There’s not one, but two rival governments. If that’s not a discredit to the British, then I don’t know what is. Again, I had to walk a tight-rope between creating enough opposition to legitimise the creation of a left wing government in Calcutta and a feudalist/traditionalist one in Hyderabad whilst maintaining Ganga Singh in Delhi.
I'm not really understanding how the collaborationist liberals have any credibility left, tbh. Even by 1928. I may be biased towards Comrade Gandhi and the INC, but Delhi still frustrates me and tbh your timeline only exacerbates a lot of the issues I've got. Like, the British-in-exile military support, implausible as it already is, comes in the form of straight-up war crimes, how is that helpful to Delhi? If anything, the Commune should be the preeminent power on the subcontinent (with significant internal tensions keeping it distracted), IMO.It is a military government, but with significant civil unrest, which boils over in the aftermath of the Anglo-Indian War. I don’t get where you see the “for and by traditional elites” bit. AFAIR, Jinnah and Besant + the HRL figure pretty widely. But then again, I stopped at 1928 and didn’t have the time to take it all the way to game start.