Realistically speaking imo a second carter term gets you a return to nixon/ford types in the GOP since Conservatism had it's champion who failed in 1980 in ttl
I am not sure that's entirely clear just yet. OTL and in this TL, the drift towards the right is/was already taking place regardless of Reagan's election. The infrastructure developed by movement conservatives is still in play. We need to see how the next four years pan out.
 
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Realistically speaking imo a second carter term gets you a return to nixon/ford types in the GOP since Conservatism had it's champion who failed in 1980 in ttl
While a more "moderate" candidate might win the nomination in '84, the overall trends of the GOP's ever increasing conservative slide isn't halted just because of Reagan's loss, just like it wasn't because of Barry Goldwater's loss. Especially as I can see the GOP losing in '84 to Mondale
 
I'm honestly interested in seeing who would be the GOP nominee in 1984. Obviously Mondale is the most obvious choice for the Democratic nominee. If I had to hedge my bets now, I'd say some options would be:

Bob Dole (There's been a decent amount of focus on him so far)
Frank D. White (If Clinton doesn't win the Governorship back like OTL, I could see him possibly running in 1984)
Howard Baker (Dude always had those kinds of ambitions in real life)
Lowell Weicker (Reagan being out could cause the party to shift his way, could be his moment)
Charles Percy (I don't really have an explanation for this one, it just feels plausible)
Jack Kemp (Bit of a wildcard but America does love a good comeback story, and we clearly haven't seen the last of Kemp)
 
I'm honestly interested in seeing who would be the GOP nominee in 1984. Obviously Mondale is the most obvious choice for the Democratic nominee. If I had to hedge my bets now, I'd say some options would be:

Bob Dole (There's been a decent amount of focus on him so far)
Frank D. White (If Clinton doesn't win the Governorship back like OTL, I could see him possibly running in 1984)
Howard Baker (Dude always had those kinds of ambitions in real life)
Lowell Weicker (Reagan being out could cause the party to shift his way, could be his moment)
Charles Percy (I don't really have an explanation for this one, it just feels plausible)
Jack Kemp (Bit of a wildcard but America does love a good comeback story, and we clearly haven't seen the last of Kemp)
Or:
Ford: He barely lost and lost less than Reagan
Agnew
 
With Ford, there would be the issue that he'd only be allowed a single term. Didn't Agnew go to prison?

Agnew resigned and Ford only served a partial term and was not elected to either office (VP or P) so it'd be up to the Supreme Court but I'm betting they would give him a full "two terms" if elected. He was considered a compromise the first time and I don't think he'd run again.

Randy
 
Ford only served a partial term and was not elected to either office (VP or P) so it'd be up to the Supreme Court but I'm betting they would give him a full "two terms" if elected.
This is covered in the 22nd Amendment:

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once."

Ford served more than two years of Nixon's second term, so he can only get one term of his own.
 

Deleted member 145219

I'm honestly interested in seeing who would be the GOP nominee in 1984. Obviously Mondale is the most obvious choice for the Democratic nominee. If I had to hedge my bets now, I'd say some options would be:

Bob Dole (There's been a decent amount of focus on him so far)
Frank D. White (If Clinton doesn't win the Governorship back like OTL, I could see him possibly running in 1984)
Howard Baker (Dude always had those kinds of ambitions in real life)
Lowell Weicker (Reagan being out could cause the party to shift his way, could be his moment)
Charles Percy (I don't really have an explanation for this one, it just feels plausible)
Jack Kemp (Bit of a wildcard but America does love a good comeback story, and we clearly haven't seen the last of Kemp)
Bob Dole says vote for Bob Dole.

Jokes aside. Check out Vidal's test thread for insight on where the GOP is heading in Jimmy Two. Remember, the Religious Right from the grassroots to the organizational level is still out there. And President Carter, despite being reelected, is still a reaction to America's political sea change that it had been undergoing for 15 years at this point.

I just hope he gets CarterCare passed.
 
Bob Dole says vote for Bob Dole.

Jokes aside. Check out Vidal's test thread for insight on where the GOP is heading in Jimmy Two. Remember, the Religious Right from the grassroots to the organizational level is still out there. And President Carter, despite being reelected, is still a reaction to America's political sea change that it had been undergoing for 15 years at this point.

I just hope he gets CarterCare passed.
Fair enough, I just figured I'd throw some possible names out.
 
I'm honestly interested in seeing who would be the GOP nominee in 1984. Obviously Mondale is the most obvious choice for the Democratic nominee. If I had to hedge my bets now, I'd say some options would be:

Bob Dole (There's been a decent amount of focus on him so far)
Frank D. White (If Clinton doesn't win the Governorship back like OTL, I could see him possibly running in 1984)
Howard Baker (Dude always had those kinds of ambitions in real life)
Lowell Weicker (Reagan being out could cause the party to shift his way, could be his moment)
Charles Percy (I don't really have an explanation for this one, it just feels plausible)
Jack Kemp (Bit of a wildcard but America does love a good comeback story, and we clearly haven't seen the last of Kemp)
I think the most likely options are Bush, Ford, Connally, or Dole. I seriously doubt the GOP would go for Weicker- he’s jut too liberal. Percy is not likely either for similar reasons, as well, he is up for re-election in 1984- a race he lost in OTL. I seriously doubt Kemp gets the nod, seeing as he’s widely viewed as costing Reagan the White House.

I have mentioned this before, but here are some other candidates I think would get in (but not win the nomination):

Donald Rumsfeld
Richard Thornburgh
Richard Lugar
Pat Robertson
Paul Laxalt
Orrin Hatch
Alexander Haig
Pete du Pont
 
I think the most likely options are Bush, Ford, Connally, or Dole. I seriously doubt the GOP would go for Weicker- he’s jut too liberal. Percy is not likely either for similar reasons, as well, he is up for re-election in 1984- a race he lost in OTL. I seriously doubt Kemp gets the nod, seeing as he’s widely viewed as costing Reagan the White House.

I have mentioned this before, but here are some other candidates I think would get in (but not win the nomination):

Donald Rumsfeld
Richard Thornburgh
Richard Lugar
Pat Robertson
Paul Laxalt
Orrin Hatch
Alexander Haig
Pete du Pont
Rumsfeld is too similar to Reagan, I don't think he would be able to get the nomination. Pat Robertson would be too easy to paint as a religious zealot, and his lack of previous political positions would likely hurt him at this point in time. Thornburgh, Lugar and du Pont could all be plausible nominees. I think after Reagan playing to the hard right failed miserably, someone like Weicker or Percy wouldn't be out of the question, maybe even giving the Rockefeller Republicans a chance for a comeback. I'll also say that even if Kemp is an unlikely choice for the nominee, it's a safe bet we're going to see him again.
 
It's important to note Evangelicals largely supported Carter in 1976, and only became the Religious Right after Reagan made them Republicans - so losing to Carter isn't the death blow a, say, Ford '76 TL would be. The GOP right-wing hasn't really been beaten down, just dealt a setback. Nixon and his One Nation-esque ideology have already been discredited, and there's the question of how the Fordist model does in '84 - I doubt Ford himself runs, seeing as the only consideration he saw in 1980 IOTL was with the possibility of the convention deadlocking and that possibility quite quickly died. And Agnew is politically dead - he can deny it to his dying breath no one recovers from taking a bribe on White House grounds, especially if they pled guilty to it.

I think the natural evolution of the GOP is still heading in the right-wing but with less supply-side economics, though Reagan not murdering any chance the Fordist wing had at being a co-equal faction of the GOP instead of being completely squashed will mean this is not an unchallenged right-wing like IOTL. And this will run up against the fact that the religious right and cultural right both, eventually, still likely migrate into the GOP, but without Reagan at the head their faction is not being totally unopposed. Vidal said in the very first post of this thread this is not a liberal utopia, so the GOP is unlikely to see anything happen to seriously avert its right-wing shift, but more likely simply see a different flavor of right-wing shift.

As for who wins in 1984 - if the economic conditions are good and the GOP has a nasty nomination fight/the GOP nominates a Dukakis-level campaigner, Mondale (who almost certainly has the Dem nomination if he wants it) could very well win, but I lean more towards the GOP narrowly beating Mondale with whoever they nominate - it's more in line with the IRL examples of 1960, 1968, and 2000, where 1988 really seems the exception that proves the rule. And there's no guarantee the 1983-1984 boom of OTL happens ITTL, depending on actions from both Carter and Volcker, and if it isn't happening then Mondale's chances, while still not horrible are less good. The GOP nominee is an open question but while they could be right-wing they won't be a supply-sider, as Reagan's loss probably does discredit that specific element of the Republican Party (and the whole 1980 debacle, plus the fact the highest office he's held is U.S. Representative - which has a very poor, if not non-existent, record at winning the presidency - means Jack Kemp is very, very unlikely to be the GOP nominee in 1984).
 
I think after Reagan playing to the hard right failed miserably, someone like Weicker or Percy wouldn't be out of the question, maybe even giving the Rockefeller Republicans a chance for a comeback. I'll also say that even if Kemp is an unlikely choice for the nominee, it's a safe bet we're going to see him again.
Percy and Weicker were too out of the nationwide GOP mainstream by this point. Rockefeller Republicans are well underway with their long decline into irrelevancy, they simply won't be able to win the primary. The right were strong enough to block any liberals in 1968 and almost dethroned a sitting President in 1976, all with the shadow of Goldwater hanging over the GOP's head. Compared to 1964, ITTL's 1980 is a speedbump. A moderate around the Bush-Dole area is as liberal as the Republicans will be able to get.
 

Deleted member 145219

It's important to note Evangelicals largely supported Carter in 1976, and only became the Religious Right after Reagan made them Republicans - so losing to Carter isn't the death blow a, say, Ford '76 TL would be. The GOP right-wing hasn't really been beaten down, just dealt a setback. Nixon and his One Nation-esque ideology have already been discredited, and there's the question of how the Fordist model does in '84 - I doubt Ford himself runs, seeing as the only consideration he saw in 1980 IOTL was with the possibility of the convention deadlocking and that possibility quite quickly died. And Agnew is politically dead - he can deny it to his dying breath no one recovers from taking a bribe on White House grounds, especially if they pled guilty to it.

I think the natural evolution of the GOP is still heading in the right-wing but with less supply-side economics, though Reagan not murdering any chance the Fordist wing had at being a co-equal faction of the GOP instead of being completely squashed will mean this is not an unchallenged right-wing like IOTL. And this will run up against the fact that the religious right and cultural right both, eventually, still likely migrate into the GOP, but without Reagan at the head their faction is not being totally unopposed. Vidal said in the very first post of this thread this is not a liberal utopia, so the GOP is unlikely to see anything happen to seriously avert its right-wing shift, but more likely simply see a different flavor of right-wing shift.

As for who wins in 1984 - if the economic conditions are good and the GOP has a nasty nomination fight/the GOP nominates a Dukakis-level campaigner, Mondale (who almost certainly has the Dem nomination if he wants it) could very well win, but I lean more towards the GOP narrowly beating Mondale with whoever they nominate - it's more in line with the IRL examples of 1960, 1968, and 2000, where 1988 really seems the exception that proves the rule. And there's no guarantee the 1983-1984 boom of OTL happens ITTL, depending on actions from both Carter and Volcker, and if it isn't happening then Mondale's chances, while still not horrible are less good. The GOP nominee is an open question but while they could be right-wing they won't be a supply-sider, as Reagan's loss probably does discredit that specific element of the Republican Party (and the whole 1980 debacle, plus the fact the highest office he's held is U.S. Representative - which has a very poor, if not non-existent, record at winning the presidency - means Jack Kemp is very, very unlikely to be the GOP nominee in 1984).
All good points. Except Paul Volcker isn't Chairman of the Federal Reserve in Jimmy Two.
 
Is there another update coming in the next few weeks, covering the end of 1981 and the beginning of 1982?

I’m optimistic the next update will come in the first half of July, but I can’t promise. It will not cover through the end of 1981, though. We have a few more chapters before 1982.
 
Vidal said in the very first post of this thread this is not a liberal utopia, so the GOP is unlikely to see anything happen to seriously avert its right-wing shift, but more likely simply see a different flavor of right-wing shift.
I just want something to be clear, I understand this, and I also want it to be clear that I don't think men like Weicker or Percy becoming president would result in that.
 
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