Isaac's Empire 2.0

I can't quite remember the original Pope-Emperor's rise to power, but this *seems* more chaotic and less contrived. Miscalculations, mistakes and rapid reversals upset even the most carefully laid plans. Samuel isn't gone (obviously, given the original) though, so it'll be interesting to see how the new situation collapses in time.

We're also getting to the point that soldier rebellions and political infighting are dangerous. Some kind of reform needs to be taken to create a more stable country (even if this is centuries from now).
 
So the Pope's road to power is much less straightforward this time. I would imagine that his Imperial aspirations would be a lot less abrupt then, I remember that he just suddenly declares himself Emperor in IE1.
 
Great update. It sucks not quite remembering how the story developed up to this point though.

A question: Why isn't Xanthis held responsible for the poor performance in Bulgaria? He was in charge after all, no ?
 
Great update BG.
Basileus Giorgios said:
Samuel I, Patriarch of Rome
Shouldn't it be Samuel II?
Basileus Giorgios said:
When Damianos went too far in attacking his remaining co-Emperor, Dasiotes’ patience snapped, and Damianos was swiftly disposed of, being mutilated and banished to a monastery near Trebizond on the Black Sea coast.
I don't know why, but reading this, I can't help but imagine a movie where George Dasiotes is being portrayed by Charles Dance and Damianos by Jack Gleeson.
Basileus Giorgios said:
Seeing his position in the Senate crumble, the old Basil III quickly gave way and on December 29th announced he would retire from the throne into a monastery [13]
Basil III: "Screw this, I'm out of here" :p
Komnenos002 said:
I can't quite remember the original Pope-Emperor's rise to power, but this *seems* more chaotic and less contrived. Miscalculations, mistakes and rapid reversals upset even the most carefully laid plans. Samuel isn't gone (obviously, given the original) though, so it'll be interesting to see how the new situation collapses in time.
Samuel's rise was indeed smoother in IE1. That said, even back then he had opposition and his rise to power was troubled with some of his opponents becoming Basileus as I recall.

As for his failure here, I think that could be interpreted as him lacking experience as Pope and overestimating the strength of his temporal power. Samuel has only become Pope recently after all: he isn't the complete political badass he was in IE1 yet. But I think he's going to be a thorn in the side of Constantine XI and his successors in the years to come.
ImperatorAlexander said:
I would imagine that his Imperial aspirations would be a lot less abrupt then, I remember that he just suddenly declares himself Emperor in IE1.
Remember that when it happened, Samuel had become senile and was going off the rails in IE1. It could still happen in IE2.
 
The bond between the two men had remained strong despite her death in childbirth in 1326, and Xanthis showed no opposition whatsoever to the unlikely match between the forty year old Constantine and Anna Dasiotissa, still only twenty three. The Augusta, rallying her supporters, first forced her lover and his allies out of prison, and then, in a hurried ceremony, first married Constantine, and then herself named him Emperor and Autocrat of the Romans, an acclamation enthusiastically confirmed by Andronikos Xanthis’ hitherto quiet veterans
So, Xanthis led his veterans to the City, but it was Constantine who got the throne.
Well, well, I cannot imagine that the guy leading his cutthroats to Constantinople did not think (even for a brief moment, even in his dream deep at night) about himself taking an imperial purple. I just don't buy it.
Seeing your friend and a relative getting the highest reward in the world which you truly deserved is a disputable pleasure.
just my opinion
may be that is my mean nature ...
 
Thanks for all the comments, everybody.

Good update, BG!:)

Cheers!

I can't quite remember the original Pope-Emperor's rise to power, but this *seems* more chaotic and less contrived. Miscalculations, mistakes and rapid reversals upset even the most carefully laid plans. Samuel isn't gone (obviously, given the original) though, so it'll be interesting to see how the new situation collapses in time.

We're also getting to the point that soldier rebellions and political infighting are dangerous. Some kind of reform needs to be taken to create a more stable country (even if this is centuries from now).

Great update. It sucks not quite remembering how the story developed up to this point though.

A question: Why isn't Xanthis held responsible for the poor performance in Bulgaria? He was in charge after all, no ?

Would it be helpful if I reposted the material from IE v1 upon which this chapter is based?

Rebellions and infighting are indeed very dangerous, and what's happened so far is only a small hint of what is to come. When a secure and powerful dynasty is on the throne, they're not so much an issue, but of course this isn't the case in IE's fourteenth century.

As for Xanthis, the Bulgarian revolt broke out in 1312, upon the death of the deposed Bulgarian Tsarina, who had been a prisoner in Constantinople for a generation. She had, however, become something of a lightning conductor, and in her absence, the boyars made an initially fairly successful attempt at seizing independence from the unpopular Alexander IV. At the time, Xanthis was a fairly junior adviser to that Emperor, and he struck up a friendship with David Pegonites during Alexander's ill fated Eastern expedition of 1314. When Pegonites took the throne, Xanthis was appointed Catepan of Italy, and remained in this post for a decade, with command for subduing Bulgaria largely going to David's eldest son Alexios, who died in the process. In 1326 he was appointed Grand Domestic of the West, with primary responsibility for maintaining order in Bulgaria, which had by this point been largely at peace for six years.

All in all, he wasn't blamed because the Bulgarian revolt of 1312-20 had nothing to do with him!

That must have been one hell of a struggle.

It was. Both Google Chrome and Internet Explorer have their own very special issues that combine to irritate me!

Always awesome to see updates!

Always awesome to see so much feedback! :)

So the Pope's road to power is much less straightforward this time. I would imagine that his Imperial aspirations would be a lot less abrupt then, I remember that he just suddenly declares himself Emperor in IE1.

Samuel's rise was indeed smoother in IE1. That said, even back then he had opposition and his rise to power was troubled with some of his opponents becoming Basileus as I recall.

As for his failure here, I think that could be interpreted as him lacking experience as Pope and overestimating the strength of his temporal power. Samuel has only become Pope recently after all: he isn't the complete political badass he was in IE1 yet. But I think he's going to be a thorn in the side of Constantine XI and his successors in the years to come.
Remember that when it happened, Samuel had become senile and was going off the rails in IE1. It could still happen in IE2.

Yorel has answered this question better than I could myself.

Great update BG.
Shouldn't it be Samuel II?

It should, thanks for catching this.

I don't know why, but reading this, I can't help but imagine a movie where George Dasiotes is being portrayed by Charles Dance and Damianos by Jack Gleeson.

Ha, I often have ASOIAF in my head when writing these days, but not in this case. Dasiotes is about as far from Tywin Lannister as one can get. As for Damianos, it's impossible not to feel sorry for the guy, as an ignored middle son roundly attacked by the historical record. Clearly there was something not quite right about him, that said.

Yorel said:
Basil III: "Screw this, I'm out of here" :p

:D

So, Xanthis led his veterans to the City, but it was Constantine who got the throne.
Well, well, I cannot imagine that the guy leading his cutthroats to Constantinople did not think (even for a brief moment, even in his dream deep at night) about himself taking an imperial purple. I just don't buy it.
Seeing your friend and a relative getting the highest reward in the world which you truly deserved is a disputable pleasure.
just my opinion
may be that is my mean nature ...

Hah, perhaps so, though it's not entirely unprecedented: both Heraclius and Alexios I only came to power after coups involving various individuals, any one of whom could have come out on top, after all.

For now, Xanthis is quite content. Given the precedent seems to be for appointing imperial colleagues, he has every reason to expect to share the throne with his brother-in-law, or, at the very least, be extremely important to Constantine and his sons (Xanthis' nephews). You're quite right to suggest that this expectation could lead to disappointment and frustration on both sides, however...
 
Thy will be done!

A very good update. Xanthis strikes as the sort of OTL’s Romanos Lekapenos or Michael Palaiologos: “you can have the throne – for now.”

Hah. There's certainly an element of that. Though it should also be remembered that Xanthis has a lot to gain from his brother-in-law and nephews rising high, and it might be just as easy for him not to rock the boat, especially given the troubles of the preceding few years. The man's choice is essentially: a guaranteed position as one of the most powerful men in the Empire, or taking a risk to become the most powerful. It's something that he will no doubt be weighing up in the early months of 1332...
 
I've just hit 60,000 words of IE 2.0 in writing the next update. To contrast with the original, the period between 1057 and 1334 was just over 22,000 words. Thanks again to all readers for your encouragement in getting this far!
 
Love this story. I followed 1.0 from the shadows and loved every minute of it. Looking forward to seeing how the story of Samuel and the rise of the Syrian Dynasty plays out in this version!
 
I have a quick question. What are the empire's borders at this time? I am thinking the heartlands plus Italy, Egypt, and the Eastern Med Coast. I am not sure though.
 
Rangoon Raja Replying

Hi,

Just checking in on this for the first time in a little while by reading the last three updates. Nice work.

I missed the conquest of Egypt, will try and go back and look in on that. What chapter was it?

Will lurk and keep an eye on things as much as I can from Suvarnabhumi.

In IE 1.0, didn't an 'Industrial Revolution' get kick-started in the Naples region later in the 14th century? I'll be looking forward to the 'scientific developments', that absorbed so much of our thinking in IE 1.0, being fleshed out soon - with their social and economic side-effects.

Like your dynastic/courtly plottings and manoeuvrings, with their rich detail, as much as ever, but looking forward to the beginnings of the IE 'modern world'. ;)

For now, roll on the tale of the dastardly Pope Samuel... :)
 
Love this story. I followed 1.0 from the shadows and loved every minute of it. Looking forward to seeing how the story of Samuel and the rise of the Syrian Dynasty plays out in this version!

It'll be slightly more complicated, but similar in essentials. The Emperor Isaac IV will be quite a different character though: he'll be known as "Isaac the Terrible". I shan't say any more than that... :D

Wonderful update this is laying out well.:)

Thank you! :)

I have a quick question. What are the empire's borders at this time? I am thinking the heartlands plus Italy, Egypt, and the Eastern Med Coast. I am not sure though.

The borders are essentially modern Bulgaria and Greece in the Balkans, Anatolia and a decent chunk of Armenia, down through Syria and Palestine, and parts of Egypt: I imagine that at this point, imperial power is still concentrated around the Delta and Nile, with little attempt to assert hegemony over the desert tribes. Cyrenaica remains outside the imperial reach.

In Italy, Apulia, Kalabria, Sicily and Sardinia are under direct imperial rule. The rest is a patchwork of city states, all notionally under Constantinople's hegemony but in practice largely left to their own devices. Some, notably Genoa, have a very privileged position vis-a-vis their relationship with the Empire, others are kept on a much tighter leash: Venice would be a good example of this. Generally speaking, the further north you go, the lighter Constantinople's influence is.

In the western Balkans, a cold war plays out between the Empire and Hungary for influence of the small kingdoms there, the most important of which by far is Croatia, Serbia never really having recovered from being crushed by the Emperor Manuel back in the twelfth century. Croatia is sometimes powerful enough to go its own way, but finds it difficult to resist the power of Esztergom or Constantinople for very long. Along the coast there are more Latin-speaking city states, which are very closely allied to Constantinople.

I must write more about this...

Hi,

Just checking in on this for the first time in a little while by reading the last three updates. Nice work.

I missed the conquest of Egypt, will try and go back and look in on that. What chapter was it?

Will lurk and keep an eye on things as much as I can from Suvarnabhumi.

In IE 1.0, didn't an 'Industrial Revolution' get kick-started in the Naples region later in the 14th century? I'll be looking forward to the 'scientific developments', that absorbed so much of our thinking in IE 1.0, being fleshed out soon - with their social and economic side-effects.

Like your dynastic/courtly plottings and manoeuvrings, with their rich detail, as much as ever, but looking forward to the beginnings of the IE 'modern world'. ;)

For now, roll on the tale of the dastardly Pope Samuel... :)

Welcome back! :D

Egypt was captured in the autumn of 1282 by the general Michael Photopoulos: its covered in Chapter Twenty Two, as are the two serious Egyptian revolts in 1284 and 1295.

As for the industrial revolution, I've left it deliberately on the back burner, but I think it's fair to say that things have begun to move in Italy, especially under the patronage of the Roman Patriarch/Pope Victor VI. Victor is a terrible and corrupt cleric, but equally a man fascinated by science and architecture (as you'll see in the next chapter), and I imagine he's done a lot to sponsor experimentation and the transfer of scientific works from Constantinople back to Italy, a process that has of course been ongoing since the twelfth century. Any ideas you have on this would be gratefully received.
 
It'll be slightly more complicated, but similar in essentials. The Emperor Isaac IV will be quite a different character though: he'll be known as "Isaac the Terrible". I shan't say any more than that... :D

Oh I look forward to seeing how this plays out. Isaac the Terrible, huh? Can't wait for the next chapters!
 
As for the industrial revolution, I've left it deliberately on the back burner, but I think it's fair to say that things have begun to move in Italy, especially under the patronage of the Roman Patriarch/Pope Victor VI. Victor is a terrible and corrupt cleric, but equally a man fascinated by science and architecture (as you'll see in the next chapter), and I imagine he's done a lot to sponsor experimentation and the transfer of scientific works from Constantinople back to Italy, a process that has of course been ongoing since the twelfth century. Any ideas you have on this would be gratefully received.

What about this from the original spin-off to IE 1.0?

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=2926379&postcount=72

It's relevant to just this period you've been covering, and the technical leap forward coming up in the 1300s, so maybe it could stand this time as well? Also food for thought about how to combine political with economic/technological developments since the Industrial Revolution in OTL England would have been impossible without the close relationship of commercial types with national politics.
 
What about this from the original spin-off to IE 1.0?

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=2926379&postcount=72

It's relevant to just this period you've been covering, and the technical leap forward coming up in the 1300s, so maybe it could stand this time as well? Also food for thought about how to combine political with economic/technological developments since the Industrial Revolution in OTL England would have been impossible without the close relationship of commercial types with national politics.

Thanks for digging this out!

Oh I look forward to seeing how this plays out. Isaac the Terrible, huh? Can't wait for the next chapters!

I've been planning them, but as yet I've done little actual writing, I'm afraid to report.

That said, I have done a lot of writing for the IE universe, mostly about Armenia and the Armenians during the twelfth and thirteenth centuries: I always feel Armenia is somewhat ignored by AH.com, perhaps due to the community's Turkophilia. Anyway, I've done a good few thousand words of text on Armenia, plus a map, with more to come: so watch this space. Hopefully people will find it of interest!
 
Great update however when are you going to post a map showing the current state of the Byzantine empire? Also have you created a story only thread?
 
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