"Io Mihailŭ, Împĕratul Românilor" - A Michael the Brave Romania Wank

Roman style cultural, linguistic and religious assimilation with only partial, low-level colonization (because there aren't enough Scandinavians, yet).
Probably similar with the Sami.

3. Sure, although they will not overcome France or Germany!

In fact, thinking about it, I'm starting to believe that Scandinavia wouldn't even recognize Sami as a distinct ethnic group, but rather use it wholesale for all Finno-Ugric migratory people, where the only difference between Finns and Sami is that Finns are sedentary, while Sami is migratory and tend to poke around in ancient Scandinavian lands.

Sure they won't overcome other nations in pure quantity (don't think they could realisticly except to do so any time soon, if ever given current border situation), but given the relative growth I really think that Scandinavia might well be on top, simply because they have so much land that can be parceled out to become fresh farmland, which on the short term makes for a few population shifts between different parts opening up for a larger average farm size per peasant family, and on the longer term makes it so no-one is affraid of not getting a decent plot of land to settle on, even if they might have to accept getting moved by the government (who'll likely accept subsiding a large part of the cost of moving them and getting them settled, taking it out of the taxes, or doing it via limited tax exemption for moving families).
 

Zagan

Donor
Greece in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Greece

OTL Wikipedia Article: Greece



Empire of the Hellenes
Αυτοκρατορία των Ελλήνων
Aftokratoría ton Ellínon
(transliteration)


11-flag-of-greece-v2-png.275723

Flag of Greece


11 Greece Europe.png

Location of Greece (Red) in Europe (Grey)


Capital: Athens (Ἀθῆναι, 37°58′N 23°43′E)
Great Power: No

Official language: Greek
Recognized languages: None
Ethnic groups: 93% Greeks, 2% Turks, 2% Romanians, 3% others
Demonym: Greek
Official religion: Greek Orthodoxy
Religious groups: 97% Greek Orthodoxes, 1% Catholics, 1% Muslims, 1% Jews

Government: Absolute Monarchy (Empire), Unitary National State, Dynastic Union with Romania
Monarch: Maria I of Romania, Greece and the Orient
Legislature: Agora

Formation:
- Independence from the Ottoman Empire: 14 January 1625
- Dynastic Union with Romania: 1 August 1641

Area: 201,542 km2 (77,815 sq mi)
Population: 2,916,000
Density: 14.47/km2 (37.47/sq mi)

Currency: Ban


Geography

Borders: Romania, Romanian Asia Minor, Turkey, Greek Cilicia, Mediterranian Sea (Aegean Sea, Ionian Sea, Crete Sea, Levant Sea)

Territory: Peninsular Greece, Mikrasia, Southern Ionian Islands, Aegean Islands, Crete, Cyprus

Administrative divisions (11 Themes): Aegean Macedonia, Thessaly, Central Greece, Attica, Peloponnese, Ionian Islands, Aegean Islands, Crete, Cyprus, Ionia, Lycia

Colonies: Cilicia


History

Monarchs:
- Prince Constantin I (Βασιλεύς Κωνσταντίνος XII, 1625 - 1641);
- Empress Maria I of Romania, Greece and the Orient (1641 - ).

Wars:
- First European War (1622 - 1624) - gained Independence;
- Greco-Venetian Wars (1627 - 1628) - gained Crete, Southern Ionian Islands;
- Second Anti-Ottoman Crusade (1629 - 1630) - gained Eastern Aegean Islands, Cyprus, Mikrasia, Salonica, Chalcidic Peninsula;
- Second European War (1641 - 1645) - lost full Independence;
- War in the Orient (1645 - 1652) - gained Cilicia.
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
In fact, thinking about it, I'm starting to believe that Scandinavia wouldn't even recognize Sami as a distinct ethnic group, but rather use it wholesale for all Finno-Ugric migratory people, where the only difference between Finns and Sami is that Finns are sedentary, while Sami is migratory and tend to poke around in ancient Scandinavian lands.

Sure they won't overcome other nations in pure quantity (don't think they could realisticly except to do so any time soon, if ever given current border situation), but given the relative growth I really think that Scandinavia might well be on top, simply because they have so much land that can be parceled out to become fresh farmland, which on the short term makes for a few population shifts between different parts opening up for a larger average farm size per peasant family, and on the longer term makes it so no-one is affraid of not getting a decent plot of land to settle on, even if they might have to accept getting moved by the government (who'll likely accept subsiding a large part of the cost of moving them and getting them settled, taking it out of the taxes, or doing it via limited tax exemption for moving families).

I don't know how much population migth support North America north of parallel 54°N, but a few more millions should be plausible.
 

Ryan

Donor
I can see Scandinavian Siberia ending up like Texas, being flooded by another countries (Russia) settlers and eventually breaking away to join them. It'll be even worse given that there's no land connection to metropolitan Scandinavia and the sea connection will be patchy at best given the ice.

and if France actually bothers to settle it's colonies then they could easily do the same to Scandinavian Canada as well.
 
I was primarily considering their respective homelands ...

I think you understate the carry capacity of Canada, even if only considering 54th and north ... Rye could probably make even more of an impact that it does OTL (since Scandinavian peasants are already used to it, they'll be much more willing to use it), and given that Scandinavia already experiments with breeding more frost-resistant variants, i see no major reason why Scandinavian Canada couldn't be able to carry more than it would do OTL ... specially when adding the knowledge (possibly from forcefully migrated Sami) to semi-domesticate Raindeers/Caribou and Elks/Moose in the semi-arctic Prairie/Tundra, herding them not unalike Cattle in the Midwest.
 

Zagan

Donor
I can see Scandinavian Siberia ending up like Texas, being flooded by another countries (Russia) settlers and eventually breaking away to join them. It'll be even worse given that there's no land connection to metropolitan Scandinavia and the sea connection will be patchy at best given the ice.

and if France actually bothers to settle it's colonies then they could easily do the same to Scandinavian Canada as well.
This is not sure yet and many things I have already sketched up may still change before going online, but what I can tell with certainty is that
Scandinavia will:
1. Not end up with all of the Arctic but
2. End up way better than in OTL anyway.
 

Zagan

Donor
I was primarily considering their respective homelands ...

I think you understate the carry capacity of Canada, even if only considering 54th and north ... Rye could probably make even more of an impact that it does OTL (since Scandinavian peasants are already used to it, they'll be much more willing to use it), and given that Scandinavia already experiments with breeding more frost-resistant variants, i see no major reason why Scandinavian Canada couldn't be able to carry more than it would do OTL ... specially when adding the knowledge (possibly from forcefully migrated Sami) to semi-domesticate Raindeers/Caribou and Elks/Moose in the semi-arctic Prairie/Tundra, herding them not unalike Cattle in the Midwest.
Good ideas like always from someone who shall be brave enough to start writing TLs of their own.
 
Good ideas like always from someone who shall be brave enough to start writing TLs of their own.

I've had so many false starts with writing both TL's and Fanfiction and whatever (very few of them getting out of planing stage), that I've accepted that while i might well have enough knowledge and an idea of where i want to go, I simply doesn't have the creative juices to get it into text and certainly not in anywhere reasonable pace ... I'd love to write, i really do, but I just have to admit that I don't quite have the tools for it
 
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I was primarily considering their respective homelands ...

I think you understate the carry capacity of Canada, even if only considering 54th and north ... Rye could probably make even more of an impact that it does OTL (since Scandinavian peasants are already used to it, they'll be much more willing to use it), and given that Scandinavia already experiments with breeding more frost-resistant variants, i see no major reason why Scandinavian Canada couldn't be able to carry more than it would do OTL ... specially when adding the knowledge (possibly from forcefully migrated Sami) to semi-domesticate Raindeers/Caribou and Elks/Moose in the semi-arctic Prairie/Tundra, herding them not unalike Cattle in the Midwest.
Another animal that may be subject to some form of domestication, if the settlers were willing to work on it, is the muskox. IIRC, there was a couple of discussions about earlier domestication of the muskox and the potential uses of such animals. Their range in OTL is within the claimed territories of Scandinavia ITTL.
 
Its worth noting that Muskox is semi-domisticated, and from what i know, except for climate needs, they shouldn't be significantly more difficult to hold as livestock than Cattle, although if open-range you'd probably be able to hold fewer per acre simply due them having to use a larger area to get the same nutrition.

That said, I doubt that the exploration effort (much less the Colonization effort) is quite far enough to the north to meet muskox, although they might well be starting to encounter items crafted from muskox wool. But sure, if Scandinavia is looking for a good animal to hold as livestock in marginal areas muskox might well be the best possible, simply due to them giving both meat, milk and wool
 
I could be wrong but from looking at maps presented ITTL and from what sources I can find about established ranges of the muskox, it looks like some of the areas colonized near the Hudson Bay are actually close to the muskox range of OTL.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/domesticating-the-muskox.370092/#post-11455495
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ication-of-caribou-and-muskox-effects.398717/
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...l-domestications.241781/page-35#post-12661133

Here are some threads that go further into domestication of the muskox and some other interesting information if you are interested, @Zagan.
 

Zagan

Donor
Armenia in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Armenia

OTL Wikipedia Article: Wilsonian Armenia



Armenia
Հայաստան
Hayastan
(transliteration)


15-flag-of-armenia-png.275729

Flag of Armenia


15 Armenia Europe.png


Location of Armenia (Red) in Europe (Grey)


Capital: Yerevan (Երևան, 40°11′N 44°31′E)
Great Power: No

Official language: Armenian
Recognized languages: None
Ethnic groups: 82% Armenians, 6% Georgians, 4% Turks, 4% Persians, 4% others
Demonym: Armenian
Official religion: Armenian Apostolic
Religious groups: 89% Armenian Apostolics, 8% Muslims, 2% Greek Orthodoxes, 1% Jews

Government: Absolute Monarchy (Kingdom), Unitary National State, Protected by Romania
Monarch: Tigranes VIII
Legislature: None

Formation:
- Independence from the Ottoman Empire and Persia: 1 January 1635

Area: 210,058 km2 (81,104 sq mi)
Population: 2,606,000
Density: 12.41/km2 (32.13/sq mi)

Currency: Dram


Geography

Borders: Georgia, Persia, Levant, Armenian Cappadocia, Black Sea

Territory: Persian Armenia, Ottoman Armenia, Pontus

Administrative divisions: 5 Provinces

Colonies: Cappadocia


History

Monarchs:
- King Tigranes VIII (Տիգրան, 1635 - ).

Wars:
- War in the Orient (1645 - 1652) - gained Pontus and Cappadocia.
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Georgia in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Georgia

OTL Wikipedia Article: Georgia



Georgia
საქართველო
Sakartvelo
(transliteration)


14-flag-of-georgia-png.275728

Flag of Georgia


14 Georgia Europe.png

Location of Georgia (Red) in Europe (Grey)


Capital: Tilfis (თბილისი, Tbilisi, 41°43′N 44°47′E)
Great Power: No

Official language: Georgian
Recognized languages: None
Ethnic groups: 83% Georgians, 6% Caucasians, 6% Armenians, 2% Persians, 3% others
Demonym: Georgian
Official religion: Georgian Orthodoxy
Religious groups: 97% Orthodoxes, 3% Muslims

Government: Absolute Monarchy (Kingdom), Unitary National State, Protected by Romania
Monarch: David XII
Legislature: None

Formation:
- Independence from the Ottoman Empire: 14 January 1625

Area: 77,046 km2 (29,747 sq mi)
Population: 1,248,000
Density: 16.20/km2 (41.95/sq mi)

Currency: Dirham


Geography

Borders: Russia, Persia, Armenia, Black Sea

Territory: Georgia

Administrative divisions: 4 Provinces

Colonies: None


History

Monarchs:
- Prince George IX (გიორგი, 1625 - 1639);
- King David XII (დავით , 1639 - ).

Wars:
- First European War (1622 - 1624) - gained Independence;
- Second Anti-Ottoman Crusade (1629 - 1630) - gained Batumi;
- War in the Orient (1645 - 1652) - white peace.
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Slovakia in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Slovakia

OTL Wikipedia Article: Slovakia



Principality of Slovakia
Slovensko Kniežatstvo



09-flag-of-slovakia-png.275720

Flag of Slovakia


09 Slovakia Europe.png

Location of Slovakia (Red) in Europe (Grey)


Capital: Kassa (Košice, 48°43′N 21°15′E)
Great Power: No

Official languages: Slovak, Latin
Recognized languages: Hungarian, German, Romanian, Polish, Ruthenian
Ethnic groups: 61% Slovaks, 29% Hungarians, 5% Germans, 4% Romanians, 1% others
Demonym: Slovak
Official religion: None
Religious groups: 62% Roman Catholics, 34% Protestants, 4% Orthodoxes

Government: Limited Monarchy (Principality), Unitary State, Protected by Romania
Monarch: Milan III
Legislature: Diet

Formation:
- Autonomous Principality under Ottoman Suzerainty: 16 April 1602
- Independence from the Ottoman Empire: 14 January 1625

Area: 50,905 km2 (19,655 sq mi)
Population: 830,000 (estimated)
Density: 16.3/km2 (42.2/sq mi)

Currency: Florentinus


Geography

Borders: (landlocked), Sarmatia, Romania, Hungary (Romanian occupation), Germany

Territory: Slovakia

Administrative divisions: 12 Counties

Colonies: None


History

Monarchs:
- Voivode Mihai of Romania (1601 - 1602);
- Prince Milan I (1602 - 1627);
- Prince Milan II (1627 - 1630);
- Prince Milan III (1630 - ).

Wars:
- Romanian-Habsburg War (1601-1602) - gained autonomy under Ottoman suzerainty;
- First European War (1622 - 1624) - gained Independence, one Southern County, neutrality in further wars;
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Empire of the Orient in 1652

TTL Wiki Article: Empire of the Orient

OTL Wikipedia Article: None



Empire of the Orient
Imperium Orientale (Oriens)



22 Flag of Oriens.png

Flag of the Orient


Capital: Constantinople (Constantinopolis, Κωνσταντινούπολις, 41°01′N 28°57′E)
Great Power: No

Official languages: Latin, Romanian, Ancient Greek, Greek
Recognized languages: Armenian, Georgian, Ottoman Turkish, Classical Arabic, Biblical Hebrew, Coptic, Aramaic, others
Ethnic groups: Romanians, Greeks, Turks, Armenians, Georgians, Persians, Arabs, Jews, Egyptians, Levantines, Cossacks, Western Europeans, others
Demonym: Oriental
Official religion: None
Religious groups: Christians (many denominations), Muslims (many denominations), Jews, others

Government: Monarchy (Empire), Dynastic Union with Romania, Romanian Puppet
Monarch: Maria I of Romania, Greece and the Orient
Legislature: None

Formation:
- Eastern Roman Empire: 10 June 1648
- Empire of the Orient: 18 August 1648

Currency: Ban


History

Monarchs:
- Iulia I of Romania, Greece and the Orient (1648 - 1651);
- Maria I of Romania, Greece and the Orient (1651 - ).

Wars:
- War in the Orient (1645 - 1652) - Established.


Note: In 1652, the Empire of the Orient was not a real State, but a mostly theoretical construction created by Empress Iulia, having no clearly defined territory and almost no state institutions.
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
Turkey in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Turkey

OTL Wikipedia Article: None



Turkey
Türkiye


16-flag-of-ottoman-empire-png.275730

Flag of the Ottoman State


16 Turkey Europe.png

Location of Turkey (Red) in Europe (Grey)


Capital: Angora (Engürü, 39°56′N 32°52′E)

Official language: Ottoman Turkish
Ethnic groups: 91% Turks, 4% Greeks, 3% Armenians, 2% others
Demonym: Turk
Official religion: Islam
Religious groups: 94% Muslims, 5% Christians, 1% Jews

Government: Monarchy (Emirate), Romanian Protectorate

Formation:
- Federal Subject of the Ottoman State: 10 April 1633
- Dissolution of the Ottoman State: 4 May 1648

Area: 373,800 km2 (144,325 sq mi)
Population: 3,072,000 (estimated)
Density: 8.22/km2 (21.28/sq mi)

Currency: Akçe


Geography

Borders: Black Sea, Armenian Cappadocia, Levant, Romanian Syria, Greek Cilicia, Greece, Romanian Asia Minor, Black Sea, Romanian Sinope


History

Wars:
- War of the Orient (1645 - 1652) - lost its Independence, Cappadocia, Cilicia, Sinope, Asia Minor, Nicomedia, Pontus.
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
The Levant in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Levant

OTL Wikipedia Article: None



Levant
Mashriq



16-flag-of-ottoman-empire-png.275730

Flag of the Ottoman State


16 Levant Europe.png

Location of the Levant (Red) in Europe (Grey)


Capital: Damascus (Dimashq, 33°31′N 36°18′E)

Official language: Classical Arabic
Ethnic groups: 95% Arabs and related peopes, 2% Turks, 3% others
Demonym: Levantine
Official religion: Islam
Religious groups: 92% Muslims, 6% Christians, 2% Jews

Government: Monarchy (Emirate), Romanian Protectorate

Formation:
- Federal Subject of the Ottoman State: 10 April 1633
- Dissolution of the Ottoman State: 4 May 1648

Area: 280,840 km2 (108,432 sq mi)
Population: 1,525,000 (estimated)
Density: 5.43/km2 (14.06/sq mi)

Currency: Akçe


Geography

Borders: Turkey, Armenian Cappadocia, Armenia, Persia, Arabia, Red Sea, Romanian Sinai, Romanian Holy Land, Romanian Lebanon, Romanian Syria


History

Wars:
- War of the Orient (1645 - 1652) - lost its full Independence, lost Syria, gained Western Mesopotamia, Arabia Petraea.
.
 
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Zagan

Donor
The Bosphorus in 1652


TTL Wiki Article: Bosphorus

OTL Wikipedia Article: None



Principality of the Bosphorus
Boğaz Prensliği



16-flag-of-ottoman-empire-png.275730

Flag of the Ottoman State


Capital: Constantinople (Konstantiniyye, 41°01′N 28°57′E)

Official languages: Ottoman Turkish, Romanian, Latin, Greek, Ancient Greek, Armenian
Ethnic groups: 70% Turks, 9% Greeks, 7% Armenians, 6% Romanians, 4% Jews, 2% Arabs, 2% others
Demonym: Bosphoran
Official religion: None
Religious groups: 78% Muslims, 18% Christians, 4% Jews

Government: Monarchy (Principality), Romanian Occupation

Formation:
- Federal Subject of the Ottoman State: 10 April 1633
- Dissolution of the Ottoman State: 4 May 1648

Area: 5,765 km2 (2,226 sq mi)
Population: 388,300
Density: 67.35/km2 (174.5/sq mi)

Currency: Ban


Geography

Borders: Black Sea, Romanian Asia Minor, Marmara Sea, Romania

Territory: Constantinople, Nicomedia

Administrative divisions: 2 Județe


History

Wars:
- War of the Orient (1645 - 1652) - lost its Independence, gained Nicomedia.
.
 
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