If Harold Godwinson wins at Hastings what happens to Brittany?

[Deleted member 161180]

A question that has always affascinated my brain is that if Harold Godwinson wins the battle of Hastings, Wales and Cornwall will be part of England, but i always thought about Brittany, i always thought that if Harold wins Brittany will be part of France, you might say that the french kings had little power at the time and that is true, but because Brittany supported the bastard over Godwinson that means that in the next Centuries Brittany will be annexed to France and it will not receive help from England.
Leave your comments below.

 

[Quantum Immortal]

It might actually go the other way. The kings of France were not really strong in this time period. The kings of England being foreign monarchs allowed the French kings to focus their energies and vassals (once they got them under control a bit) to recovering Normandy, Anjou, Poitou, and Aquitaine. Most of the local landowners remained except in Normandy, but French nobles generally supported these wars because they could gain titles, plunder, and estates previously owned by men loyal to the English kings.

The English kings being basically culturally French and marrying with the French royal family led directly to the Hundred Year's War, too. While a bloody disaster in many ways, in the long term France emerged much stronger, more centralized, and more nationally unified than it was going into the war. Before and during the Hundred Year's War the French monarchy was struggling to maintain control and defeat the English. Afterward the English were absolutely a second rate power compared to France and Spain. Hence there was nobody around to help Brittany when France diplomatically and militarily pressured it to become part of France by marriage.

If Harold Godwinson wins the Battle of Hastings, then the powerful Norman dukes and the warlike Norman people remain in Normandy defying and occasionally warring with the French kings. They will likely focus energies on conflicts closer to home and this will be a detriment to the French kings. Brittany is as strong as any dukedom in France, and is certainly independent. The kings of France at this time are weaker personally than half or more of the dukes and counts, maybe in this time line Brittany remains independent and with close ties to the princes of Wales, kings of Anglaland, and kings of Scotland.

 

[marktaha]

Hundred Years War essentially French Civil War , I suppose. If William dead at Hastings,what happens to Normandy?

 

[Kerney]

It might actually go the other way. The kings of France were not really strong in this time period. The kings of England being foreign monarchs allowed the French kings to focus their energies and vassals (once they got them under control a bit) to recovering Normandy, Anjou, Poitou, and Aquitaine. Most of the local landowners remained except in Normandy, but French nobles generally supported these wars because they could gain titles, plunder, and estates previously owned by men loyal to the English kings.

The English kings being basically culturally French and marrying with the French royal family led directly to the Hundred Year's War, too. While a bloody disaster in many ways, in the long term France emerged much stronger, more centralized, and more nationally unified than it was going into the war. Before and during the Hundred Year's War the French monarchy was struggling to maintain control and defeat the English. Afterward the English were absolutely a second rate power compared to France and Spain. Hence there was nobody around to help Brittany when France diplomatically and militarily pressured it to become part of France by marriage.

If Harold Godwinson wins the Battle of Hastings, then the powerful Norman dukes and the warlike Norman people remain in Normandy defying and occasionally warring with the French kings. They will likely focus energies on conflicts closer to home and this will be a detriment to the French kings. Brittany is as strong as any dukedom in France, and is certainly independent. The kings of France at this time are weaker personally than half or more of the dukes and counts, maybe in this time line Brittany remains independent and with close ties to the princes of Wales, kings of Anglaland, and kings of Scotland.

Basically, a France that doesn't have the unifying threat of the HYW or the 400 year (1066 to 1455) implicit threat of Norman/English dominance, could possibly be a French Holy Roman Empire. Meanwhile English remains much more vaguely Germanic/Scandinavian.

 

[Deleted member 161180]

Basically, a France that doesn't have the unifying threat of the HYW or the 400 year (1066 to 1455) implicit threat of Norman/English dominance, could possibly be a French Holy Roman Empire. Meanwhile English remains much more vaguely Germanic/Scandinavian.

Philip Augustus still exists.

 

[Kerney]

Philip Augustus still exists.

With a 1066 PoD, he's certainly butterflied. However, someone like him is a distinct possibility and while a French HRE is one possibility, this is another. It's also possible that such a figure might be like the Ottos in the HRE, ruling a pretty strong state that years later is less so.

 

[Deleted member 161180]

With a 1066 PoD, he's certainly butterflied. However, someone like him is a distinct possibility and while a French HRE is one possibility, this is another. It's also possible that such a figure might be like the Ottos in the HRE, ruling a pretty strong state that years later is less so.

No, he still exist Adele of Normandy is still born by this point.

 

[Kerney]

No, he still exist Adele of Normandy is still born by this point.

And she (or her descendents) might be married to others, pregnant when she should be concieving Phillip's parent or grandparent. For all we know, seeing as she was born 1067 perhaps she marries Godwinson spawn and becomes Queen of England.

That is more likely. The Normans might need to save face with their absurd (in atl) claim to English crown being a bit embarrassing fifteen years later.

Yes, there may be someone like Phillip. The odds of otl Phillip existing are MORE asb than a successful Sea Lion and just patently absurd.

I will leave.

 

[Quantum Immortal]

And she (or her descendents) might be married to others, pregnant when she should be concieving Phillip's parent or grandparent. For all we know, seeing as she was born 1067 perhaps she marries Godwinson spawn and becomes Queen of England.

That is more likely. The Normans might need to save face with their absurd (in atl) claim to English crown being a bit embarrassing fifteen years later.

Yes, there may be someone like Phillip. The odds of otl Phillip existing are MORE asb than a successful Sea Lion and just patently absurd.

I will leave.

I've gotta agree here. Emma of Normandy is a well known pre-Norman queen of England. What's to say this Adele would not also be queen of England, or elsewhere.

 

[kasumigenx]

Or Emma of France marries Godwine.

 

[kasumigenx]

Butterflying the Plantagenet-Capetian and Hundred Years War saves Occitan from retreat from Saintonge, Southern Poitou and Angouleme.