How to foster a more equal trade relationship between Rome and China?

[JJ2161]

So, I'm thinking about a scenario in which the Roman Empire has less of a trade deficit with China.

You see, I've always thought about what is it that Europe (Roman and post-Age of Discoveries) has that could be desirable to the Chinese.

First, I think that a more direct trade route with China, a sea route, would cut off the middlemen and allow the Romans to get cheaper products. In this timeline, Romans make good seafarers and explorers of the East.

I know that Roman glass was very valued in China at the time, as they didn't know how to produce glass of the same quality. So I was thinking of a world in which Roman glass production develops further than in the OTL. Maybe they manage to develop something like Venetian crystal, maybe even rudimentary optical lenses.

Also, Tyrian purple dye. From what I know, it was valued as far as Persia and only produced in the Mediterranean. If the Romans managed to generate interest in the Indian and Chinese elites, maybe it would give them a good product to trade. I know the Chinese had access to red dyes, but not Tyrian purple, and they could not produce it.

Maybe an earlier and more consistent Roman presence in China will allow for them stealing the secrets of silk earlier on. They would still import it from China, but a sizeable production in the Roman Empire would be very beneficial, and if it were a guarded state monopoly, it would make it harder for the secret to leak to other empires and would bring the state a new source of revenue.

Can you think of other European products that could be of interest in China?

Not only Roman, but products that are European or mostly only accessible to Europeans. For example, in a post-Discoveries timeline I'm writing, Portuguese traders manage to get the Qing elites to become infatuated with yerba mate, a tea-like plant that is native to South America. But not only that, because the mate tea that they presented to the Chinese was processed in a specific way, when the Spanish learn of this and try to sell yerba mate to the Chinese, they are rejected. It further develops in the Spanish trying for years to infiltrate or capture the Southern Brazilian city of Gardamar, in which the yerba mate is processed by a royal chartered company.

 

[Hydra1234]

Honestly, I think the trade deficit isn't because of some sort of comparative trade advantage that Asia had over Europe, but rather general consumption. The Roman nobility was infamously opulent, and the way it spent has been rather thoroughly documented as being extravagant. While Chinese nobility still did show off, Confucian ideals emphasized restraint and frugality, which probably did affect how the nobles "showed off". Same thing for India, where both Buddhism and Hinduism caution against excesses and emphasize restraint. Stoicism was popular, but it wasn't universal given how frequently Stoics wrote about luxuria.

An example of this is the amount of household slaves. The Han Dynasty imposed a limit of 200 slaves for kings/dukes (equivalent to provincial governors in Rome), 100 slaves for imperial princesses, and 30 slaves for other officials/nobles, and in many cases, the nobles were well under the legal limits. In contrast, the enslaved portion of a Roman household could reach in the hundreds easily. So when one side has a much higher consumption than the other side, it's very likely that a deficit forms.

Also, another thing to note is that the vast majority of the trade along the Silk Road was "mundane" items and not luxury goods. Despite its name, goods like as pepper, spices, incense, vegetables, and aromatics were a much larger share of the Silk Road trade than silk, glassware, diamonds, and gems. The issue is that European herbs can grow fairly well in various parts of China/India/Western Asia, but the same isn't true about many Asian spices, especially ones from the tropics.

 

[prani]

If Rome made advances in metallurgy perhaps? Making better quality steel than what India made, India china trade was mostly around metals and later sugar, less of spices and cotton, the latter commodities which India was famous for in the west, in our neighborhood we together with Iran ( Iran was prominent only during the middle to late sassanid period) were known to make quality metals which were used to make weapons and armour, Indian metallurgy produced formidable armours until the 11th century CE which was much sought after commodity in the area, the famous Damascus steel was Indian or in khorasan which borders India.
If you get India and Iran to Nerf their metallurgy and have Romans take over, yeah their trade east would be much balanced.

 

[Band in China]

Rome simply didn't produce much the Chinese wanted, neither would Europe later on. Either they get their hands in gold, an industrial economy, or a navy good enough to mine for Jade in Burma and Taiwan.

 

[SpaceRome]

Amber! The Prussian coast has the largest amber reserves in the world, and it's entirely feasible for Rome to get to it - if not through outright conquest and integration of Magna Germania, then through the establishment of a client kingdom or trade/mining outposts on the Baltic coast.

Then, either sell it raw to the Chinese, or better yet - have Rome develop an Amber processing industry. It was apparently custom to burn amber for its scent in ancient China, as well as using it for Jewelery and for medicinal purposes, so you'll have demand for it.

And of course, there is Opium - which was first cultivated in the Mediterranean, and only introduced to China in the 7th century IOTL.

 

[JJ2161]

Amber! The Prussian coast has the largest amber reserves in the world, and it's entirely feasible for Rome to get to it - if not through outright conquest and integration of Magna Germania, then through the establishment of a client kingdom or trade/mining outposts on the Baltic coast.

Then, either sell it raw to the Chinese, or better yet - have Rome develop an Amber processing industry. It was apparently custom to burn amber for its scent in ancient China, as well as using it for Jewelery and for medicinal purposes, so you'll have demand for it.

And of course, there is Opium - which was first cultivated in the Mediterranean, and only introduced to China in the 7th century IOTL.

I liked the amber thing. Maybe have it develop into a more "indispensable" commodity in China, like tea in Britain. Maybe by incorporating amber into Chinese religious rituals.

 

[kholieken]

Red Coral. Its one of treasure of Buddhism that popular in early middle ages China.

 

[SpaceRome]

I liked the amber thing. Maybe have it develop into a more "indispensable" commodity in China, like tea in Britain. Maybe by incorporating amber into Chinese religious rituals.

Exactly. For there to be a big market in China for Amber, you need to find a use for it that is both popular and consumption-based - because even if everyone in China went insane for Amber Jewelry, at some point most people would already have enough. Which is why I think Amber as a part of perfumes/incense could work - if it somehow becomes common to burn Amber for good luck (maybe the connection with the Romans might make it a charm for martial success and, by extension, virility?), then the Romans will have a large and constant demand for it.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Rome traded with India, and that was a round trip of a couple of years, IIRC over-wintering in Tanzania or somewhere. Going to China and back would potentially be twice as long.

 

[Gloss]

What exactly did Rome import from China that absorbed Roman precious metals? Can we analyze that?

 

[naraic]

What exactly did Rome import from China that absorbed Roman precious metals? Can we analyze that?

I think it was purely silk.

Well silk and spices.

 

[prani]

I think it was purely silk.

Well silk and spices.

You forgot Cotton, it was cotton textile that drained the Roman Empire of its gold because it was perfect, not as expensive as silk but still exotic enough for Roman women to go crazy over and had consumers not only in the upper class but also in the middle class, unlike silk was affordable to the very rich so cotton had a bigger consumer base

 

[JJ2161]

You forgot Cotton, it was cotton textile that drained the Roman Empire of its gold because it was perfect, not as expensive as silk but still exotic enough for Roman women to go crazy over and had consumers not only in the upper class but also in the middle class, unlike silk was affordable to the very rich so cotton had a bigger consumer base

Do you have sources for that? I never heard about it, but it seems interesting.

 

[HyperMuscularDemon]

Maybe Gan Ying somehow reaches the Roman Empire, and starts more direct trade between the Roman Empire and the Han Dynasty of China. That way, Roman glasswork could reach China, and provide a large income for the Roman Empire (also it could advance technology, as the Chinese could adopt glass working techniques and invent glasses and telescopes, among many other things, centuries ahead of OTL).

 

[Cryostorm]

Another thing that could be done is speed up when silk worms were smuggled to Greece and get cotton into Egypt sooner. Those two things would vastly help balance the trade deficit by reducing the amount brought in.