English Version

Hello friends. I am writing an alternative story somewhere else and I wish they were not so ASB.

My alternative story is that the United States of America includes all of North America (including Greenland, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Bermuda), Mexico, all of Central America (including the Archipelago of San Andrés, Providencia and Santa Catalina), the entire Caribbean from the Bahamas to Trinidad and Tobago and Curacao.

But I do clarify, Greenland would be annexed between 1870 and 1917, Alaska would be the same as in TLA annexed in 1867, Hawaii in 1902 and same year would annex Panama and San Andres. For the Decade of 1910 and 1920, the Lesser Antilles would be finally annexed.

But it will be possible to have Canada, Mexico, the present United States except Alaska and Hawaii in addition to Central America excluding Panama and the Greater Antilles and Bermuda in an alternative history during the American Revolution and before the signing of the constitution in 1787.

And my base would be revolts that occurred in Yucatan, in Jamaica for example also that in a treaty Great Britain, Spain and France agreed to grant all that territory.

it's possible? How would communications be between states or, say, between Washington DC and Mexico City, Havana, etc.? I know there could be some conflict, especially about the Catholic religion.

And if it were, what would happen to slavery, the Civil War and the South? Could there be "less" racism against blacks and Hispanics or would it be the same?

Could it be included in the Constitution or in a subsequent amendment that the official languages be English, French and Spanish and that indigenous languages or other languages (such as Aruba Dutch) could be recognized?

In my alternative history, is there are four parties that are apportion 96% or 98% of the seats (Federalist, Democrat, Republican and Progressive, Right, Center or Center-Left, Center-Right and Center-Left respectively) and a minority that get one to another seat from time to time

In addition the presidential elections would maintain the electoral votes but with the inclusion of a second round between the two candidates with more electoral votes. The first round would be held in September and the second in November. On tuesday?.

Also in the territorial organization would be formed by states (eg, Guatemala, New York) that in turn would be divided in Provinces (ex: Alta Verapaz, Superior, Michigan) and finally counties or municipalities. As I'm not so good at modifying a map and making different states, I'm currently making them very similar to LTA with 108-116 states but maybe then try changing several maps to merge some states (like merging Baja California and Baja California Sur in a state or California).

there are two world wars, a cold war but not with two superpowers but three (Russia, United States and United Kingdom or Europe, ok is ASB XD)

Y sobre el presidente de EE. UU., Las elecciones se celebrarán en años distintos a LTA. por ejemplo, Lincoln ganaría las elecciones de 1859 y gobernaría entre 1860 y 1868. He pensado en nombrar presidentes a varios hispanos y francocanadienses, por ejemplo, Benito Juárez y Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

And about the US President, the elections would be held in years other than LTA. for example Lincoln would win the elections of 1859 and govern from 1860 to 1868. I have thought of putting several Hispanics and French-Canadians as presidents, eg Benito Juarez and Pierre Elliott Trudeau

What do you think? Have I exaggerated? I appreciate comments, criticism and more. Greetings friends.

Postscript: George Washington will be the first president and ruled between 1792 and 1800, (he does not die in 1799 but in 1801 or 1802 because he would not be in Vernon)

[/
Hola amigos. Estoy escribiendo una hisoria alternativa en otro sitio y quisiera no fuera tan ASB.

Mi historia alternativa trata de que los Estados Unidos de America incluyan todo Norteamerica (incluyendo Groenlandia y San Pedro y Miquelón, Bermudas), México, todo Centroamerica (Incluyendo el Archipiélago de San Andrés, Providencia y Santa Catalina), todo el Caribe desde las Bahamas hasta Trinidad y Tobago y Curazao.

Pero hago una aclaración, Groenlandia sería anexionada entre 1870 y 1917, Alaska sería igual que en TLA anexada en 1867, Hawaii entren 1890 y 1902 y ese mismo año anexaría Panamá y San Andrés. Para la Decada de 1910 y 1920 se anexarían finalmente las Antillas Menores.

Pero será posible tener a Canadá, México, los actuales Estados Unidos excepto Alaska y Hawaii además de Centro America sin incluir Panamá y las Antillas Mayores y Bermudas en una historia alternativa durante la Revolución Estadounidense y antes de la firma de la constitución en 1787. Y mi base serían unas revueltas que ocurrieron en Yucatán, en Jamaica por ejemplo además que en un tratado Gran Bretaña, España y Francia aceptaran conceder todo ese territorio.
¿es posible? ¿como serían las comunicaciones entre los estados o digamos, entre Washington DC y la Ciudad de México, La Habana, etc.? sé que podría haber algún conflicto, especialmente sobre la religión catolica.

Y sí lo fuera, ¿que pasaría con la esclavitud, la Guerra Civil y el Sur? ¿podría haber "menos" racismo contra negros e hispanos o sería igual? ¿Se podría incluir en la Constitución o en una enmienda posterior sobre que los idiomas oficiales fueran el inglés, francés y español y se pudieran reconocer idiomas indigenas u otras (como el neerlandés de Aruba)?

En mi historia alternativa además tengo pensado en incluir cosas como que en este país haya Cuatro partidos que se reparten el 96% u 98% de los escaños (Federalista, Democráta, Republicano y Progresista; Derecha, Centro o Centro-Izquierda, Centro-Derecha y Centro-Izquierda respectivamente) y una minoría que consiguen uno que otro escaño de vez en cuando. Además las elecciones presidenciales mantendrían los votos electorales pero con la inclusión de una segunda vuelta entre los dos candidatos con más votos electorales. La primera vuelta se celebraría en Septiembre y la segunda en Noviembre. ¿en Martes?.

Además en la organización territorial estaría formada por estados (ej: Guatemala, Nueva York) que a su vez se dividirían en Provincias (ej: Alta Verapaz, Superior, Michigan) y finalmente condados o municipios. Como no soy tan bueno para modificar un mapa y hacer estados diferentes, actualmente los estoy haciendo muy similar a LTA con 108-116 estados pero quizás luego intente modificar varios mapas para fusionar algunos estados (como fusionar Baja California y Baja California Sur en un estado o en California).

Ah y he pensando que haya dos guerras mundiales, una guerra fría pero no con dos superpotencias sino con tres (Rusia, Estados Unidos y Reino Unido o Europa, ok ya es ASB XD)

Ah sobre el Presidente de EUA, las elecciones se celebrarían en años diferentes a LTA. por ejemplo Lincoln ganaría las elecciones de 1859 y gobernaría desde 1860 hasta 1868. He pensando en poner varios hispanos y francocanadienses como presidentes, ej: Benito Juarez y Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

¿Que opinan? ¿he exagerado? Agradeceré comentarios, criticas y etc. Saludos amigos.]

Posdata: George Washington será el primer presidente y gobernaron entre 1792 a 1800, (no muere en 1799 sino en 1801 o 1802 porque no estaría en Vernon)
 
A most intriguing ATL! But I think a BIG problem here would be Canada. IOTL during
the ARW we tried to first persuade, then
force them to join us. This failed(@ least in
part because much of Canada then was Catholic & didn't wish to be ruled by a
Protestant U.S.) Assuming then in your
ATL the ARW still occurs & takes the course
it did IOTL, after 1783 Canada would still
be British. To acquire it would mean war
with Britain. The U.S. did fight Britain in
The War Of 1812 IOTL @ least in part to
acquire Canada but that too turned out to
be a miserable failure. A 3rd U.S. British
war over Canada during the balance of
the 19th century would still have been no
easy task for the U.S. Meanwhile most
Canadians still, I think, preferred to steer
clear of the U.S. So my question to you
TheMexican is: how do you propose gett-
ing Canada into the U.S.? (If I've missed
something let me know!)
 
Last edited:
A most intriguing ATL! But I think a BIG problem here would be Canada. IOTL during
the ARW we tried to first persuade, then
force them to join us. This failed(@ least in
part because much of Canada then was Catholic & didn't wish to be ruled by a
Protestant U.S.) Assuming then in your
ATL the ARW still occurs & takes the course
it did IOTL, after 1783 Canada would still
be British. To acquire it would mean war
with Britain. The U.S. did fight Britain in
The War Of 1812 IOTL @ least in part to
acquire Canada but that too turned out to
be a miserable failure. A 3rd U.S. British
war over Canada during the balance of
the 19th century would still have been no
easy task for the U.S. Meanwhile most
Canadians still, I think, preferred to steer
clear of the U.S. So my question to you
TheMexican is: how do you propose gett-
ing Canada into the U.S.? (If I've missed
something let me know!)

In english:
Well, I was going to make this happen:

1) that the Thirteen Colonies won several battles and French Canadians did not feel satisfied with the laws made by the British.

2) After hearing the news of the revolutions in the Thirteen Colonies, the New Hispanists of New Spain will begin to rebel, that the Mayas take advantage of this to attack the Spaniards who caused the death of Jacinto Canek.

3) occur several rebellions in Jamaica and could connect to the Tackys War of 1760

4) make Toussaint Louverture rebellion with other people about 10 or 12 years before TLA

5) That the invasion to the Bahamas be successful and then an invasion to the Turks and Caicos Islands occurs. Oh and besides Saint Pierre and Miquelon and maybe Bermuda?

I still do not know how to handle Central America and with the Cayman Islands, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico.

,
[/Bueno, yo iba a hacer que pasaran esto:

1) que las Trece Colonias ganaran varias batallas y que los francocanadienses no se sintieran satisfechos con las leyes hechas por los britanicos.

2) Despues de escuchar las noticias de las revoluciones en las Trece Colonias, los novohispanos de Nueva España se empiecen a rebelarse, que los mayas aprovechen esto para atacar a los españoles que causaron la muerte de Jacinto Canek.

3) ocurran varias rebeliones en Jamaica y podría conectarse a la Tackys War de 1760

4) hacer que Toussaint Louverture se rebele junto a otras personas unos 10 o 12 años antes que en TLA

5) Que la invasión a las bahamas sea exitosa y luego ocurra una invasión a las Islas Turcas y Caicos. Ah y además de San Pedro y Miquelón y ¿quizás bermudas?

Aún no se como manejar América Central y con las Islas Caimán, Cuba, República Dominicana y Puerto Rico.
 
No comments, critics or opinions? I would appreciate it very much, because I want to improve this alternative story and avoid ASB.
 
No comments, critics or opinions? I would appreciate it very much, because I want to improve this alternative story and avoid ASB.


OK, suggestions:

First, explain why in your ATL, the Canadians & New Mexicans rebelled. What differed from
our time line, where they didn't.

Second, what could keep a state covering so
much territory & so many diverse peoples
from quickly flying apart?

Third, IOTL the state of communications in
1800 was very poor. Maybe I'm being too
mean- sorry- but I just can't help from think-
ing this would make your proposed state ASB(how would its parts stay in touch? How
could the central government exert control
over the whole state, especially its margins?)
How would you solve this problem?

Best of luck!
 
Last edited:
OK, suggestions:

First, explain why in your ATL, the Canadians & New Mexicans rebelled. What differed from
our time line, where they didn't.

Second, what could keep a state covering so
much territory & so many diverse peoples
from quickly flying apart?

Third, IOTL the state of communications in
1800 was very poor. Maybe I'm being too
mean- sorry- but I just can't help from think-
ing this would make your proposed state ASB(how would its parts stay in touch? How
could the central government exert control
over the whole state, especially its margins?)
How would you solve this problem?

Best of luck!

1) Well, there would be other previous PODs:
1a) in the Canadian case, the francocanadians did not feel satisfied with the laws imposed by the United Kingdom and decide to join with the Thirteen Colonies, and some battles like the Battle of Quebec are successful.
1b) in the case of New Spain, there were several rebellions such as the rebellion of the pericues and the rebellion where Jacinto Canek died, with this and with the anti-peninsular sentiment it would cause the novohispanos to rebel and have a stronger boom when hearing the news of the rebellion of the Thirteen Colonies

Paragraph: I clarify that I have thought that rebellions occur almost at the same time:
I1) The revolution of the Thirteen Colonies between 1775 and 1783 or 1784.
I2) The Canadian colonies would revolt at about the same time and would last about the same time, it is noteworthy that the Battle of Quebec occurred in 1775.
I3) In the case of New Spain, rebellions could rather be postponed until 1777 or 1778 and could end between 1783 or 1784.
I4) Similar case of New Spain would occur in Haiti and Jamaica
I5) The revolutions would take place between 1775 until the fimar of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 or 1784.

2) About this, I thought about it and I had some ideas:
A) It could be done that the Thirteen Colonies, New Spain, Jamaica, Haiti and the other colonies make a union agreement with conditions. How to grant certain autonomies and attributions, on the protections of their different languages and lifestyles. Let each state decide for itself about slavery.
B) About the territory, what would be the difference with the Russia of 1790 with almost the same amount of territory without counting the cold, snow and winter? perhaps modifications could be made and create a new subdivision category, create entities inferior to the state but superior to the county and that would manage the large territory (ex: there would be a "province" called Superior (in Michigan) and another known as Pinar del Rio ( in Cuba) with some attributions and differences with the Governor and the mayor). But the truth, until there I have arrived.

Incised: On the population, good according to estimates there were:
* Thirteen Cologne: 2,400,000 (1775) - 3,929,214 (1790)
* New Spain: 4,000,000 (1770) - 6,000,000 (1790)
* Haiti: No data - 500,000 (1790)
* Canada: 200,000 (1790)
Total Approximate: 7,500,500 (1775) to 11,00,000 (1790)

3) Well, there you caught me but how were the communications of New Spain with Spain? And France with Hati? Maybe "have" representatives in those territories. They could exercise control similar to what the European powers and Russia did.

[/
1) Pues habría otros PODs anteriores:
1a) en el caso canadiense, los francocanadienses no se sintieron satisfechos con las leyes impuestas por Reino Unido y deciden unirse con las Trece Colonias además algunas batallas como la batalla de Quebec son exitosas.
1b) en el caso de Nueva España, ocurrieron varias rebeliones como la rebelion de los pericues y la rebelion donde murio Jacinto Canek, con esto y con el sentimiento antipeninsular ocasionaría que los novohispanos se rebelaran y tuvieran un auge mas fuerte al oir las noticias de la rebelion de las Trece Colonias

Inciso: Aclaro que he pensado que las rebeliones ocurran casi al mismo tiempo:
I1) La revolución de las Trece Colonias entre 1775 y 1783 o 1784.
I2) Las colonias canadienses se rebelarian casi al mismo tiempo y durarían más o menos el mismo tiempo, es de notar que la Batalla de Quebec ocurrió en 1775.
I3) En el caso de Nueva España, mas bien las rebeliones podrian postergarse hasta 1777 o 1778 y podria terminar entre 1783 o 1784.
I4) Caso similar de Nueva España ocurriria en Haiti y Jamaica
I5) Las revoluciones ocurririan entre 1775 hasta la fimar del tratado de paris en 1783 o 1784.

2) Sobre esto, lo he pensado y he tenido algunas ideas:
A) Se podria hacer que las Trece Colonias, Nueva España, Jamaica, Haiti y las otras colonias hagan un acuerdo de union con condiciones. Como otorgar ciertas autonomias y atribuciones, sobre la protecciones de sus diferentes idiomas y estilos de vida. Que cada estado decida por si mismo sobre la esclavitud.
B) Sobre el territorio, ¿cual seria la diferencia con la Rusia de 1790 con casi la misma cantidad de territorio sin contar el frio, nieve e invierno? quizas se podrian hacer modificaciones y crear una nueva categoria de subdivision, crear entidades inferiores al estado pero superiores al condado y que manejarian el gran territorio (ej: existiria una "provincia" llamada Superior (en Michigan) y otra conocida como Pinar del Rio (en Cuba) con algunas atribuciones y diferencias con el Gobernador y el alcalde). Pero la verdad, hasta ahi he llegado.

Inciso: Sobre la poblacion, bueno según las estimaciones habian:
* Trece Colonia: 2,400,000 (1775) - 3,929,214 (1790)
* Nueva España: 4,000,000 (1770) - 6,000,000 (1790)
* Haiti: Sin datos - 500.000 (1790)
* Canada: 200,000 (1790)
Total aproximado: 7,500,500 (1775) a 11,00,000 (1790)

3) bueno, ahi me atrapaste pero ¿como eran las comunicaciones de la Nueva España con España? ¿y Francia con Hati? quizas "tener" representantes en esos territorios. Podrian ejercer un control similar a lo que hicieron las potencias europeas y Rusia.]
 
1) Well, there would be other previous PODs:
1a) in the Canadian case, the francocanadians did not feel satisfied with the laws imposed by the United Kingdom and decide to join with the Thirteen Colonies, and some battles like the Battle of Quebec are successful.
1b) in the case of New Spain, there were several rebellions such as the rebellion of the pericues and the rebellion where Jacinto Canek died, with this and with the anti-peninsular sentiment it would cause the novohispanos to rebel and have a stronger boom when hearing the news of the rebellion of the Thirteen Colonies

Paragraph: I clarify that I have thought that rebellions occur almost at the same time:
I1) The revolution of the Thirteen Colonies between 1775 and 1783 or 1784.
I2) The Canadian colonies would revolt at about the same time and would last about the same time, it is noteworthy that the Battle of Quebec occurred in 1775.
I3) In the case of New Spain, rebellions could rather be postponed until 1777 or 1778 and could end between 1783 or 1784.
I4) Similar case of New Spain would occur in Haiti and Jamaica
I5) The revolutions would take place between 1775 until the fimar of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 or 1784.

2) About this, I thought about it and I had some ideas:
A) It could be done that the Thirteen Colonies, New Spain, Jamaica, Haiti and the other colonies make a union agreement with conditions. How to grant certain autonomies and attributions, on the protections of their different languages and lifestyles. Let each state decide for itself about slavery.
B) About the territory, what would be the difference with the Russia of 1790 with almost the same amount of territory without counting the cold, snow and winter? perhaps modifications could be made and create a new subdivision category, create entities inferior to the state but superior to the county and that would manage the large territory (ex: there would be a "province" called Superior (in Michigan) and another known as Pinar del Rio ( in Cuba) with some attributions and differences with the Governor and the mayor). But the truth, until there I have arrived.

Incised: On the population, good according to estimates there were:
* Thirteen Cologne: 2,400,000 (1775) - 3,929,214 (1790)
* New Spain: 4,000,000 (1770) - 6,000,000 (1790)
* Haiti: No data - 500,000 (1790)
* Canada: 200,000 (1790)
Total Approximate: 7,500,500 (1775) to 11,00,000 (1790)

3) Well, there you caught me but how were the communications of New Spain with Spain? And France with Hati? Maybe "have" representatives in those territories. They could exercise control similar to what the European powers and Russia did.

[/
1) Pues habría otros PODs anteriores:
1a) en el caso canadiense, los francocanadienses no se sintieron satisfechos con las leyes impuestas por Reino Unido y deciden unirse con las Trece Colonias además algunas batallas como la batalla de Quebec son exitosas.
1b) en el caso de Nueva España, ocurrieron varias rebeliones como la rebelion de los pericues y la rebelion donde murio Jacinto Canek, con esto y con el sentimiento antipeninsular ocasionaría que los novohispanos se rebelaran y tuvieran un auge mas fuerte al oir las noticias de la rebelion de las Trece Colonias

Inciso: Aclaro que he pensado que las rebeliones ocurran casi al mismo tiempo:
I1) La revolución de las Trece Colonias entre 1775 y 1783 o 1784.
I2) Las colonias canadienses se rebelarian casi al mismo tiempo y durarían más o menos el mismo tiempo, es de notar que la Batalla de Quebec ocurrió en 1775.
I3) En el caso de Nueva España, mas bien las rebeliones podrian postergarse hasta 1777 o 1778 y podria terminar entre 1783 o 1784.
I4) Caso similar de Nueva España ocurriria en Haiti y Jamaica
I5) Las revoluciones ocurririan entre 1775 hasta la fimar del tratado de paris en 1783 o 1784.

2) Sobre esto, lo he pensado y he tenido algunas ideas:
A) Se podria hacer que las Trece Colonias, Nueva España, Jamaica, Haiti y las otras colonias hagan un acuerdo de union con condiciones. Como otorgar ciertas autonomias y atribuciones, sobre la protecciones de sus diferentes idiomas y estilos de vida. Que cada estado decida por si mismo sobre la esclavitud.
B) Sobre el territorio, ¿cual seria la diferencia con la Rusia de 1790 con casi la misma cantidad de territorio sin contar el frio, nieve e invierno? quizas se podrian hacer modificaciones y crear una nueva categoria de subdivision, crear entidades inferiores al estado pero superiores al condado y que manejarian el gran territorio (ej: existiria una "provincia" llamada Superior (en Michigan) y otra conocida como Pinar del Rio (en Cuba) con algunas atribuciones y diferencias con el Gobernador y el alcalde). Pero la verdad, hasta ahi he llegado.

Inciso: Sobre la poblacion, bueno según las estimaciones habian:
* Trece Colonia: 2,400,000 (1775) - 3,929,214 (1790)
* Nueva España: 4,000,000 (1770) - 6,000,000 (1790)
* Haiti: Sin datos - 500.000 (1790)
* Canada: 200,000 (1790)
Total aproximado: 7,500,500 (1775) a 11,00,000 (1790)

3) bueno, ahi me atrapaste pero ¿como eran las comunicaciones de la Nueva España con España? ¿y Francia con Hati? quizas "tener" representantes en esos territorios. Podrian ejercer un control similar a lo que hicieron las potencias europeas y Rusia.]

Ok I see your points(especially re similar
issues re communication with 1790's
Russia). Thank you very much for the
reply- now go do this TL!
 
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