Flower O'Scotland

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking of his parents, actually, but...

    I like the idea of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sidney becoming Duchess of York ITTL, Jane would doubtless approve of having an educated daughter in law and Mary's Dudley heritage would be a nice nod to Jane's OTL marriage, I think.
     
  2. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh that could be quite interesting
     
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  3. Threadmarks: Chapter 99: A Raise In Stature

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 99: A Raise In Stature



    April, 1563


    James, Earl of Arran looked at the King and Queen and swallowed. He was nervous. The King’s brother had died fighting, and James had been unable to prevent that. But he was also nervous about what the King might think about his attempt to take Prince Robert from Prince Arthur’s care before that. The Earl of Atholl was at his side as well, and remained expressionless. Eventually, the King spoke.

    “We would like to thank you both for fighting alongside our brother and ensuring that he was well advised. His death still grieves us and will for the rest of our days, but he ensured that the enemy was defeated.”

    “It was our duty, Sire.” Atholl said.

    “His Royal Highness was a brave man and a great soldier.” James added.

    The King nodded. “Now, that we are here, we have decided the time has come to put Lennox out of his misery. A trial shall be held and he shall be executed and his body parts sent to different parts of the Kingdom as a warning.”

    James looked at Atholl and briefly wondered if the King meant the Kingdom of Scotland or all three Kingdoms that he ruled. Either way he knew it was acceptable. All he asked was. “Who shall sit in judgement of Lennox, Sire?”

    For a brief moment, Arran worried that the King said there would be no trial, but instead he said. “You two, ourselves, Lord Huntly, and Lord Maxwell.”

    “Very good, Sire. And what are you going to do with Lennox’s wife and children?” Arran asked. He did not like coming across as someone desperate for his enemy to fall, but he was.

    “Lennox’s wife is our aunt, therefore she shall come to rest with us at court, as for her children, her youngest two shall come with her to court, whilst her son shall be given a small holdfast and some lands to govern. As far as we know he did not conspire with his father. Therefore, he shall not be punished.” The King said.

    “Very good, Sire.” James responded.

    “As for the clans?” Atholl asked.

    “They shall be removed.” The Queen said then. “Sent to serve off their crimes.”

    James spoke then. “Your Majesties, with all due respect, I believe that would be a mistake.”

    “Why?” The Queen asked.

    “Because it would send a message that the clans are considered replaceable and ill thought of. The clans help keep peace in the north. I would instead recommend that instead of sending the clans who supported Lennox off to serve others in servitude, that Your Majesties instead replace them through marriages and land transferral. That will reward those who remained loyal and send a concise message about what happens to those who rebel.” James said.

    The King looked as though he was going to protest, but then the Queen laid a hand on his knee and he sighed. “Very well.” There was a pause and then the King added. “We have also discussed who would be an appropriate replacement for our brother as Lord Lieutenant of Scotland, and we have decided to name both of you to this position in reward for your loyal service.”

    James looked at Atholl and then the King and bowed his head. “Thank you, Sire.”

    “There was one other thing.” The King said. “You have both served us loyally and before that you served our father loyal. Therefore, in recognition of that loyal service, we have decided to elevate you in the peerage. James, you shall be known forthwith as Duke of Arran, and John you shall be known as Duke of Atholl. We have had the writs written up and they shall be read out at the next grand meeting of Parliament.”

    James was stunned, he did not know what to say. It was Atholl who spoke for them both. “Thank you, Sire, we are most honoured.”
     
  4. FriendlyGhost Haunting history for 45+ yrs

    This was an English punishment for high treason (the 'quartering' part of 'hanging, drawing and quartering') - from the English Treason Act passed under Ed III. I've never heard of it ever having been applied in Scotland; in fact I think it was generally regarded in Scotland as barbaric. I know you had Queen Jane suggest it to James, and without a specific statute covering treason in Scots Law (which I don't think ever existed OTL) he can, as the monarch, essentially decide on whatever punishment he wants, but I think his reputation would be adversely affected in Scotland by doing this, particularly if he then immediately left again for London - there might be more Scots who start to view him as a king who has forsaken his own country for England, which could lead to more rebellions in future, not fewer as he might hope from such a gruesome punishment.

    Sorry - it's just that one thing which grates a bit in an otherwise very good story.
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh for sure, which is why we're not quite done with Scotland just yet, expect someone to bring this up with him :)
     
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  6. Threadmarks: Chapter 100: Moray's Desire

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 100: Moray’s Desire



    April, 1563



    James bowed before his brother and King. “Sire, you wished to see me?” He had never quite known what to make of his half-brothers and half-sister, his father had been a distant figure, but had met him more than once. He’d only met the Duke of Albany three or four times before his death. The King he’d met maybe five times. Still they were family and he thought perhaps he could convince the King against his current course.

    “Yes.” The King said simply. “We wished to ask your view on the punishment we are to give the Earl of Lennox.”

    Moray nodded, he thought through what he was going to say and then said. “Sire, I believe it would be a mistake to go through with what you have planned.”

    “Explain.” The King said commandingly.

    James knew he had to get through this quickly. “Sire, quartering a prisoner who has been found guilty of treason is a very English thing. And whilst it might be seen as acceptable there, it is seen as barbaric here. And as such if Your Majesty goes through with it, it is possible that you might see some nobles believe you have abandoned Scotland completely and they might then take up where Lennox had left off.”

    The King looked at him. “You think they would over this punishment?”

    “Yes Sire.” James said. “It is not that they do not consider Lennox a traitor, they do, it is simply that they would find the method to remove him too English.”

    The King snorted. “A traitor gets more sympathy than the man who they killed.” He paused and then sighed. “What would you suggest I do instead?”

    “Execute the man and place his head on a spike if you must, Sire. But let the rest of his body rest in peace.” James said. “You are already giving his family enough peace, let them have this also.”

    The King looked as if he might protest but instead he simply nodded. “Very well.” There was a pause and then the King added. “You know, when we were younger we never got the chance to speak.” There was another pause as James waited to see where his brother and King was going with this. “Tell us something about yourself, brother. Are you married?”

    James smiled at the question as he thought of the wealth his wife Agnes had brought him. “I am, Sire. To Agnes, daughter of William Keith.”

    “Ah yes, we remember. And do you find your wife enjoyable?” The King asked him.

    “Yes Sire.” James answered honestly.

    “Good, good. Arthur should have made use of you more often. We do not know why he did not. But that is neither here nor there now.” The King said, there was an air of sadness about him. Eventually he shook his head and said. “There is no point living in the past. Arthur has been buried and his funeral rites said. We have one brother left, Robert, he is just a boy. We wish for you to serve as his guardian and tutor. You would not object to remaining here at Edinburgh would you?”

    James was completely surprised by this. He had note expected the offer, but now that he thought on it, it would make sense. Arran and Atholl were both schemers, and as far as the King was concerned, he was family. Better that family raise a Prince than either of those two. He bowed his head and said. “It would be my honour, Sire.”

    “Good.” The King said. He rose then and said. “Come, we have a trial to attend.” As they walked out of the hall, James couldn’t help smiling slightly, he was going to be a powerful man now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  7. HRH Cecily Well-Known Member

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    Are you missing a word here maybe?
     
  8. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I am yes, mistake was supposed to be there, thanks for pointing it out! :)
     
  9. Threadmarks: Chapter 101: Plotting Spaniard

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 101: Plotting Spaniard



    July, 1563


    “Sire, King James had the Earl of Lennox executed and has had his family displaced from their lands. He has also replaced the clans who supported Lennox with those who remained loyal to him.” The Duke of Alva said.

    “Did anyone suspect that we were behind the funding for the man?” Felipe asked.

    “No, Sire.” Alva responded.

    “Then we do not care.” Felipe said. “Lennox was dangerous but he was also a fool no doubt he would have sided with France had he been successful. Scotland has always been a French puppet we need someone to rebel in England to cause more danger.”

    There was a brief moment of silence and then his chancellor Manuel spoke. “There is that one lady, Margaret Stanley, my spies inform me that she is a devout Catholic and is someone who could well be persuaded to marry to our Catholic allies in England.”

    Felipe nodded. “Indeed, see whether or not there is anything there.” Manuel nodded, and Felipe turned to Alva. “And what of the other nations have they expressed any interest in righting this great wrong?”

    Alva shook his head. “No, Sire. The King of Portugal is looking to arrange a marriage between his son and heir and the daughter of King James. The Emperor is busy looking over his shoulder at the Muslims, and the other Kingdoms do not care enough.”

    “And His Holiness?” Felipe asked. He could not understand how his fellow Catholic brothers could tolerate such heresy and allow it to flourish. Surely His Holiness the descendant of Peter would not allow it?

    Alva shook his head. “His Holiness is more concerned with taking advantage of the chaos amongst the Ottomans.”

    Felipe wanted to throw his hands up in the air in frustration, but he knew that would not get him what he wanted, so instead he changed tack. “And what is the situation with the Ottomans?”

    “Sultan Mustafa has died and his sons Mehmed and Suleyman are claiming the throne with differing amounts of support from their cousins and uncles. As such, His Holiness believes the time is right to reclaim various parts of the Christian land they took.” Alva said.

    “Very well.” Felipe said. “And we take it then that His Holiness wishes for some support in this endeavour?” He sensed an opportunity depending on where this might go.

    “Yes, Sire.” Alva said. “He believes that if the Holy Alliance Forces can reclaim Hungary or perhaps defend Cyprus or even venture into Africa it is possible that things can change.”

    “And what do you think?” Felipe asked.

    “I think it is possible, but that we would need to choose our targets carefully. Egypt is still nominally under the control of those Mamluk fellows, so, perhaps we should begin looking elsewhere. The coastlines of Northern North Africa would be where I would go.” Alva responded.

    “And the French, where do they stand on this matter?” Felipe asked. He did not want to have to fight a war on two fronts.

    “The French are too preoccupied trying not to fight one another. They shall not be getting involved in anything for some time.” Alva said dismissively.

    “Very well.” Felipe said. “Send word to His Holiness, inform him we shall gather our forces and set out as soon as the conditions favour us.”
     
  10. Derek Pullem Butterfly Killer

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    Earlier Lepanto? Mustafa taking the throne and not being strangled is a butterfly I see.
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Potentially and that it was :)
     
  12. Threadmarks: Chapter 102: Jane's Lamentations

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 102: Jane’s Lamentations



    October, 1563


    Her stomach was huge, Jane knew that she was in the final stages of what had been a difficult pregnancy and she could not wait to be done with it. Perhaps once this was done they could take a little break from having children, she thought to herself. They already had an heir and a spare, and a daughter one more child and then a little rest so she could recover. Perhaps she might encourage her husband to take a mistress, but then she pushed that thought down. She’d not be able to handle that.

    Her mother however seemed to have no qualms about it. “You know you won’t be any good to the King if you keep getting pregnant. You need to get your husband a mistress.”

    Jane sighed. Her mother meant well, but increasingly, Jane found her to be a great source of annoyance. “I am not sure I agree, Mother.”

    Mother laughed. “You want to be out of service for nine months at a stretch for the next year and a half. Because I can tell you that’s what will happen.”

    Jane raised an eyebrow. “What do you mean?”

    “What I mean is that if you continue to get with child every time your husband wants to fulfil his rights, you’re never going to be taken seriously.” Mother replied.

    “James listens to my advice far more than he does anyone else’s.” Jane replied.

    “Yes, I know, but do you just want to be giving advice behind closed doors or do you want to be there at the core of court?” Mother asked. “Because if you are constantly with child, no man is going to allow that, be they the King or otherwise.”

    “What, just because I am with child means I can’t listen and engage with the intrigues of court?” Jane asked dismissively.

    “Yes.” Mother said simply. “Men are like that. They will only allow women the chance to get power openly if they aren’t with child every year. If they are, well then the men will close the doors and ensure that they are never opened again.”

    “James isn’t like that. He always includes me in important meetings with Cecil and others.” Jane said. She knew her husband, he loved her fiercely and had always felt that his own mother had never gotten a fair share of credit for the peace Scotland had enjoyed.

    “Your husband might not be like that, but his courtiers and advisors certainly are. You think Cecil wants you constantly there, hovering, and countering his advice? Do you think Norfolk wants you there to counter him? Your presence is a reminder to these men of how inferior they are, how much they cannot stomach being told they are wrong. It is a reminder that someone not from their group is Queen, and as such, they will do everything to convince the King not to include you. You said it yourself, he was convinced by his half-brother not to do the standard thing for treason. What else can he be convinced of?” Mother said.

    “He was right to listen to Moray, what I had said in Scotland was wrong.” Jane said dismissively.

    Mother sighed, she rose then. “Think about what I’ve said, dear, you might want to consider it.” with that Mother curtseyed and then left, leaving Jane alone to think about it. Did she want to encourage her husband to take a mistress? The thought repelled her, she didn’t want her husband sleeping with anyone else. She knew him, she knew the harlots at court, someone would try and take advantage of him. at the same time, she didn’t want to be excluded from power.

    “Dammit, Mother.” Jane sighed.
     
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  13. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    Oh... *Gapes* Frances Brandon has quite the nerve, doesn't she??
     
  14. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    She does indeed. And she's not half wrong, the men at James' court are going to do what they can to keep her out of power.
     
  15. Threadmarks: John IV of Portugal Family Tree

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So, a little preview of how the family tree situation looks for Portugal under John IV

    John IV of Portugal.jpg
     
  16. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    A Portugal/ Scotland union? Hurrah, something slightly less incestuous than OTL! My heart leaps in relief!
     
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  17. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Aha indeed though given how inbred Sebastian is they won’t gave too much luck re surviving children
     
  18. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't surprise me. Still, it's an improvement.
     
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  19. Threadmarks: Chapter 103: A King's Concern

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Chapter 103: A King’s Concern



    January, 1564



    “Sire, word has come from our friends in France. It appears that the very thing we had feared has happened.” William Cecil, Lord Burghley and Lord High Treasurer said.

    “Who started the war?” James asked. He had known for some time now that either the Protestants or Catholics would fire the first shot, he just needed to know who had started it to know who to prevent entering Calais.

    “The Duke of Guise led a raid on a Protestant church and butchered the entire church. The Prince of Conde replied by sacking several Catholic churches. The efforts of the crown to restore order have failed, and now there is war.” Cecil replied.

    “And where is the French crown sitting in all of this?” James asked.

    “The crown stands with the Duke of Guise, under the influence of the Queen Mother, Sire.” Cecil said. “Consequently, the situation will only get worse before it gets better.”

    “And what of Calais?” James asked. “Will either side try and use it as a place to send their fellow religionists when things go wrong?”

    “I doubt it Sire.” Cecil said. “The Huguenots have Bordeaux which is being strengthened by a mighty big wall, whilst the Catholics have Paris, and Dunkirk should things truly get troublesome.”

    “Yet, either side might still consider Calais neutral ground. Which would involve us in their struggles. How capable are we of handling this?” James asked.

    Here Cecil didn’t respond, instead, the Marquess of Northampton, William Parr spoke. “Sire, we’ve got enough men to drive off any one who tries to come to Calais or Bolougne without Your Majesty’s leave. We have enough food for our garrison and the civilians. Naturally the war in France is not ideal, but we maintain open links with the Low Countries and with Portugal to keep the Pale supplied.”

    “Very good, and what of the little conspiracy that King Philip of Spain tried to start?” James asked. He had been informed of it some weeks ago and had laughed quite heartily at the thought of any noble be they Catholic or otherwise trying to remove him from his throne on the orders of a foreigner.

    “Lady Stanley continues to insist she had nothing to do with the plot, and that she was not even aware of it until we brought it to her attention. The people who King Philip was using to implement the plot have all been arrested and tried for treason, Sire.” Lord Burghley said.

    “Good, I doubt that King Philip will have the time or energy to do anything similar any time soon, what with his concerns of defeating the Ottomans.” James said. He cleared his throat and then said. “Now, there was another matter you wished to discuss was there not Cecil?”

    “There was, Sire.” Cecil said. “It involves the issue of two ladies claiming the whole inheritance of six manors, two castles and a lot of land in the Midlands. The one lady believes the whole inheritance is hers as she is the eldest, whilst the other sister claims the whole inheritance because of the words their father said to her before he died.”

    James sighed. “And where does the truth of the matter lie?”

    “The man left a split inheritance to both his daughters. They were to get a fair share of each. However, both of them are claiming the will their father left is a forgery.” Cecil said.

    “Are they married?” James asked.

    “No, Sire, both are unwed.” Cecil said.

    “This seems like a matter for Her Majesty to help with. When she has recovered from bed rest, we shall send for her.” James said. Jane had just recently given birth to a girl they had named Katherine in honour of her sister, she had asked for some time to rest, but he also knew that she would not be happy if he left her out of this.

    “But Sire, surely this is a matter for the council to resolve.” Northampton said.

    “The Queen is part of this council.” James replied. “Furthermore, she is also a woman, she will be able to guess why these two women are arguing and suggest a solution far more reasonable than anything we can suggest.”

    “Sire….” Northampton began but stopped at a look from Cecil.

    “No, do not stop, say what you were going to say.” James commanded.

    Northampton swallowed and then said. “Sire, with all due respect, Her Majesty has just given birth to a Princess, and whilst that is brilliant news, it does make me wonder if perhaps we are not overly reliant on her? She is a woman after all, and therefore, it would make more sense to let her rest than to trouble her with these concerns. Especially at this time.”

    James said nothing, he knew he should shout and rant, but he had thought this had passed. This fear of a smart woman. He steeled himself and said as coldly as possible. “Take yourself back to your estates Northampton, we no longer wish to see you on this council.” He paused to allow time for this to settle in and then added. “That goes for anyone else.” There was a moment of silence, then Northampton rose, bowed and stalked out of the room.
     
  20. Threadmarks: Henry II of France

    VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    For those curious Henry II of France.jpg
     
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