Garrison
Donor
'Decade of Tears' eh? Just when you think things have to get better along comes Rumsfeld...
Fear, Loathing and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72
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'Decade of Tears' eh? Just when you think things have to get better along comes Rumsfeld...
Garrison
Donor
I have just one thing to say to this:
Oh. My. God.
Drew, are you trying to give us all nightmares? I'm glad this never occurred.
This makes For All Time (did you read that before writing this, Drew) look tame by comparison.
Love that you show all points of view. Makes this TL unique.
How much research did you do into this TL, Drew? This is impressive. It is a shame that you have never won a Turtledove.
Of course, I'd still rather live here than in the Protect and Survive universe.
What makes you think they aren't one and the same? I still think all those future history books are being written in fallout shelters...
If that latest Rumsfeld/Cheney memo got out both would quite literally be tried and shot.
If say Ikle managed to get a copy of it well........
If say Ikle managed to get a copy of it well........
Well, the 1980s look to be rather interesting to say the least. Most intriguing that Rumsfeld is turning OTL on its head and abandoning the Southern Strategy. You've got me really wondering what the Republican Party especially is going to look like by the end of this decade.
Also, you made me look up August 19th 1980 because I just HAD to know what DIDN'T happen. Makes sense that you'd pay attention to detail like that considering how often you've listed trivia details of that topic repeatedly so far.
Also, you made me look up August 19th 1980 because I just HAD to know what DIDN'T happen. Makes sense that you'd pay attention to detail like that considering how often you've listed trivia details of that topic repeatedly so far.
"Vive le Québec libre !" Huh? Wait! You split my state! You can't do that!!
John Hinckley is a Sword of Damocles but I don't think the next installment would be named Rumsfeldia if Rumsfeld died so quickly.
Now that it's over, I would like to congratulate you. This timeline is one of the greatest here (if not the greatest), and you deserve to rest before Rumsfeldia comes out.
Well, at least you have your own Record Company!
It looks like he's going for conservative in the tough-on-crime, tough-on-unions, tough-on-the-budget sense, while driving the religious right and We The People towards the Democratic Party. The Libertarians are also targeted for a clampdown, but they'll probably only grow as a result.
John Hinckley is a Sword of Damocles but I don't think the next installment would be named Rumsfeldia if Rumsfeld died so quickly.
Now that it's over, I would like to congratulate you. This timeline is one of the greatest here (if not the greatest), and you deserve to rest before Rumsfeldia comes out.
Well, the 1980s look to be rather interesting to say the least. Most intriguing that Rumsfeld is turning OTL on its head and abandoning the Southern Strategy. You've got me really wondering what the Republican Party especially is going to look like by the end of this decade.
Also, you made me look up August 19th 1980 because I just HAD to know what DIDN'T happen. Makes sense that you'd pay attention to detail like that considering how often you've listed trivia details of that topic repeatedly so far.
wikipedia said:
Also Alice Cooper concert riot in Toronto. Cooper got tanked, cancelled the show and those of us in the audience went a little nuts over it.
Obviously, in this TL Saudia is no longer flying. August 19,1980 is also the date I met a past girlfriend I frankly wish I never had (at the aforementioned Alice Cooper show that never was at the CNE) -so, nothing happened.
Wow, Drew! A riveting conclusion for an epic story! (And thanks a bunch for including a bit of Atlas Shrugged in the update!)
Can't wait for Rumsfeldia!
Can we ever expect to see a whole version of Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72 as a thread later on as a compilation in the Completed Timelines subforum?
(Also, just want to note, in your Senate listings, you had Sam Nunn, even though in the 1978 midterm update you had a Republican defeating him.)
Can't wait for Rumsfeldia!
Can we ever expect to see a whole version of Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72 as a thread later on as a compilation in the Completed Timelines subforum?
(Also, just want to note, in your Senate listings, you had Sam Nunn, even though in the 1978 midterm update you had a Republican defeating him.)
Orville_third
Banned
This was amazing...and scary...
I hope Rumsfeld doesn't get us as close to war as Reagan nearly did, with live-fire exercises adjacent to Soviet waters.
Of course, if Rumsfeld gets hit by Hinkley...
I hope Rumsfeld doesn't get us as close to war as Reagan nearly did, with live-fire exercises adjacent to Soviet waters.
Of course, if Rumsfeld gets hit by Hinkley...
Well Rumsfeld's inaguration speech seems quite blunt.
Some of his executive orders seems interesting:
- A directive to the Secretary of Transportation to implement a private partnership to develop high speed rail service
- A call for the development of more nuclear power plants
-A directive to the Secretary of Energy to establish a federal prize for innovative fuel alternative programs
- A directive reducing the federal restriction on domestic oil pricing
- A directive for the Secretaries of Commerce and Labor to develop a plan to merge their departments
- A directive to the Commissioner of the IRS giving small businesses a one-year tax holiday
- A proclamation urging Congress to cut its pay
- A directive that the EPA identify and implement ways to fast track environmental approval on industrial projects and projects of “significant economic import.”
- A directive freezing federal pay and requiring a reassessment of all pay grades prior to new hires
I personally have no objections to those, and they seem like good policy.
Several bad ones:
- A directive ordering NASA to privatize or outsource its activities
- A directive calling for 10% budget cuts across all departments
- A directive cutting block grants to states in areas of “discretionary spending.”
- A directive to review federal criminal prosecutions and where possible to turn them over to state authorities
- A directive to cut the budget of the National Park Service by 10%
Privatizing NASA, gutting national parks, slashing all budgetary programs 10%... hopefully Rummy can work together with Congress, and pass some of his decent policy ideas.
Pete DuPont almost unseating Joe Biden (41-38) keep it up Joe
Goldwater Sr. defeated by a libertarian. How ironic.
I see there arew several SCOTUS members in Rummy's cabinet: Alito, Thomas, Roberts.
Quite a few good choices: Jack Kepm, Bob Dole, Gerald Ford, Charles Percy, John Connaly, William Casey, George Shultz, Richard Cheney. (Yes I like Cheney)
Grover Norquist, Strom Thurmond, Paul Wolfowtiz all in the same administration. That is horrible; I can't stand any of them. However the good news is they are balanced by a plethora of good GOP'ers.
Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor
Some of his executive orders seems interesting:
- A directive to the Secretary of Transportation to implement a private partnership to develop high speed rail service
- A call for the development of more nuclear power plants
-A directive to the Secretary of Energy to establish a federal prize for innovative fuel alternative programs
- A directive reducing the federal restriction on domestic oil pricing
- A directive for the Secretaries of Commerce and Labor to develop a plan to merge their departments
- A directive to the Commissioner of the IRS giving small businesses a one-year tax holiday
- A proclamation urging Congress to cut its pay
- A directive that the EPA identify and implement ways to fast track environmental approval on industrial projects and projects of “significant economic import.”
- A directive freezing federal pay and requiring a reassessment of all pay grades prior to new hires
I personally have no objections to those, and they seem like good policy.
Several bad ones:
- A directive ordering NASA to privatize or outsource its activities
- A directive calling for 10% budget cuts across all departments
- A directive cutting block grants to states in areas of “discretionary spending.”
- A directive to review federal criminal prosecutions and where possible to turn them over to state authorities
- A directive to cut the budget of the National Park Service by 10%
Privatizing NASA, gutting national parks, slashing all budgetary programs 10%... hopefully Rummy can work together with Congress, and pass some of his decent policy ideas.
Pete DuPont almost unseating Joe Biden (41-38) keep it up Joe
Goldwater Sr. defeated by a libertarian. How ironic.
I see there arew several SCOTUS members in Rummy's cabinet: Alito, Thomas, Roberts.
Quite a few good choices: Jack Kepm, Bob Dole, Gerald Ford, Charles Percy, John Connaly, William Casey, George Shultz, Richard Cheney. (Yes I like Cheney)
Grover Norquist, Strom Thurmond, Paul Wolfowtiz all in the same administration. That is horrible; I can't stand any of them. However the good news is they are balanced by a plethora of good GOP'ers.
Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor
So, the full list of Presidents and Vice-Presidents thus far is:
37. Richard Nixon (Republican) 1969-1973
--. Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1973 [acting]
--. John J McKeithen (Democratic) 1973 [posthumous]
38. Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1973
39. James M Gavin (Independent) 1973-1977
40. George Wallace (Democratic) 1977-1981*
41. Donald Rumsfeld (Republican) 1981-
(* Nicholas Katzenbach (Democratic) 1978 [acting])
39. Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1969-1973
40. William Scranton (Republican) 1974-1977
41. Nicholas Katzenbach (Democratic) 1977-1979
42. William Scranton (Republican) 1979-1981
43. Jack Edwards (Republican) 1981-
William Scranton: the only man to be not elected to two non-consecutive terms as Vice-President.
37. Richard Nixon (Republican) 1969-1973
--. Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1973 [acting]
--. John J McKeithen (Democratic) 1973 [posthumous]
38. Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1973
39. James M Gavin (Independent) 1973-1977
40. George Wallace (Democratic) 1977-1981*
41. Donald Rumsfeld (Republican) 1981-
(* Nicholas Katzenbach (Democratic) 1978 [acting])
39. Spiro Agnew (Republican) 1969-1973
40. William Scranton (Republican) 1974-1977
41. Nicholas Katzenbach (Democratic) 1977-1979
42. William Scranton (Republican) 1979-1981
43. Jack Edwards (Republican) 1981-
William Scranton: the only man to be not elected to two non-consecutive terms as Vice-President.
BolivarianHero
Banned
How the bloody Hell is a liberal Republican like Lowell Weicker going to be able to stand Rumsfeld. My leftist ass would take him over Lieberman any day.
The one good thing about this timeline (for one who has to live in it) is that with no Mujahideen (Pashtun Pedophile Brigade), things might end up a lot better for the women of Afghanistan and Pakistan. What the West did for the Mujahideen makes me ashamed to be a White male.
I especially like the fact that you focus your research on substantive aspects of your timeline rather than bothering to fill in unimportant candidates. It gives you more storytelling flexibility should they ever become important and gives you more time to add nuance to the myriad of issues and events that you cover. Your handling of the Quebec Referendum outcome was particularly deft, and the complexities that alone entails justify your extended break. I also enjoy the direction you're taking Spain. While the extended Francoist period was certainly painful, I think that the long term outcome will lead to a more stable, just, and prosperous Spain.
Two nit picks:
1. Marshall Law instead of Martial Law.
2. You spoil the results of the Presidential election too early by revealing that W. Jackson Edwards is President of the Senate.
Both can be fixed by editing, but I suggest you really get on that second one.
The one good thing about this timeline (for one who has to live in it) is that with no Mujahideen (Pashtun Pedophile Brigade), things might end up a lot better for the women of Afghanistan and Pakistan. What the West did for the Mujahideen makes me ashamed to be a White male.
I especially like the fact that you focus your research on substantive aspects of your timeline rather than bothering to fill in unimportant candidates. It gives you more storytelling flexibility should they ever become important and gives you more time to add nuance to the myriad of issues and events that you cover. Your handling of the Quebec Referendum outcome was particularly deft, and the complexities that alone entails justify your extended break. I also enjoy the direction you're taking Spain. While the extended Francoist period was certainly painful, I think that the long term outcome will lead to a more stable, just, and prosperous Spain.
Two nit picks:
1. Marshall Law instead of Martial Law.
2. You spoil the results of the Presidential election too early by revealing that W. Jackson Edwards is President of the Senate.
Both can be fixed by editing, but I suggest you really get on that second one.
First of all, this was magnificent, and I can't wait for the Sequel!
I have a feeling that memo is going to come out eventually. And quite possibly destroy the Republicans.
His inauguration address makes it sound like he's going to invade France, I can't really blame Adropov for his reaction to be honest.
I doubt he cares.
I have a feeling that memo is going to come out eventually. And quite possibly destroy the Republicans.
His inauguration address makes it sound like he's going to invade France, I can't really blame Adropov for his reaction to be honest.
I doubt he cares.
Lycaon pictus
Donor
You go to hell with the President you have, not the President you voted for.
Someone had to say it.
Someone had to say it.
John Farson
Banned
That may very well become a popular quote in the US in this alternate 1980s.
As to how long Rumsfeld will be in office, and whether Hinckley will play a part in a, uh, sudden end to the Rumsfeld Administration, remember that Agnew only needed nine months to fuck up the US for the rest of the 1970s. Rummy need not necessarily be around for the whole fours years to do the same for the US in the 1980s.
I agree with the others that what Rumsfeld and his people did during the campaign with regards to US foreign policy is borderline treason.
And now Nelson Mandela is dead, due to "natural causes", like how Steve Biko died of a "hunger strike". Southern Africa is sure going to hell in a handbasket. As for Israel, it looks like the Israeli right is becoming drunk with power, with bad consequences for everyone concerned.
We know this timeline is not going to end in a nuclear war, but I take it that by this point it wouldn't take much to cause one. I could easily see this lead to an alternate version of Protect and Survive, with Rumsfeld and his Soviet counterpart going down in infamy as the men who blew up the world.
Yeah, most things look like they're going to become even more FUBAR in part 2 of this TL with Rummy in charge- turning more & more into a sadly plausible dystopia, & it looks like Rummy, the Israeli right, SA/Rhodesian hardliners, Soviet hawks, & Mao the Younger, that batshit insane monster are just a few of the people looking to throw gas on the fire. (Though with the US & Israel, it kind of feels like some current political trends are being mashed together, turned up a couple notches, & sent back in time to a more unstable era where they'd be far more dangerous.)
However, IIRC, there actually is some OTL precedence for what Rummy's people did- reportedly, there were some backchannel communications IOTL between Reagan's people & Khomeni's to draw out the Iranian Hostage Crisis by working out an agreement to delay releasing the hostages from the embassy until after Reagan's inauguration, in exchange for a few quiet favors, as both had their reasons to further embarrass Carter, while in 1968, Nixon's people & the South Vietnamese premier to have the RVN basically scuttle a round of peace talks through taking a sudden hard-line position on some of the points under discussion by promising to take a firmer stance on the war once in office & shifting relevant US policies closer to what the RVN leadership wanted, because Nixon saw the collapse of that round of negotiations as a way to weaken LBJ's administration & by extension Humphrey's position in those elections.
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