Fascism without WW2

Vendaval

Vendaval

Hello, after quite a while browsing AH.com, I've finally decided to make my first post.



So, let's say that Hitler dies in some ignominious accident in early 1934, and someone more moderate and not as insane takes over, and war is averted.

What would have been the future and legacy of the Fascism around the world? To where would fascist movement spread and where would it gain control? What would people think of fascism?
 
lounge60

lounge60

Vizio said:
Hello, after quite a while browsing AH.com, I've finally decided to make my first post.



So, let's say that Hitler dies in some ignominious accident in early 1934, and someone more moderate and not as insane takes over, and war is averted.

What would have been the future and legacy of the Fascism around the world? To where would fascist movement spread and where would it gain control? What would people think of fascism?
Click to expand...

Fascism stay in Italy in 40s and 50s,but without nazi influence is more light.
After Mussolini death, a welthy and modern Italy back to democracy and constitutional Monarchy (The spanish way).
 

Color-Copycat

Fascism stays strong in Spain, and if the Kuomintang can thwart both the Japanese and Communists, it may thrive in China as well. Maybe Argentina would stay sympathetic to fascism even without the impetus of a healthy relationship with Nazi Germany, too.

Perhaps without the Nazis to discredit fascism, the fascist political factions in Western European democracies might survive as fringe extremists.
 
IchBinDieKaiser

IchBinDieKaiser

Well, I'm not sure about it's fate in Europe, but I know the America Fascism was quite popular amongst academics and progressive elites. They described Mussolini as "A latin Teddy Roosevelt who acts first and then sees if it's legal". They saw fascism as a system that moved society forward. So in America it would probably be viewed the same way that academics in America see the Chinese or Venezuelan model today.
 

GTAmario

Banned
Color-Copycat said:
Fascism stays strong in Spain, and if the Kuomintang can thwart both the Japanese and Communists, it may thrive in China as well. Maybe Argentina would stay sympathetic to fascism even without the impetus of a healthy relationship with Nazi Germany, too.

Perhaps without the Nazis to discredit fascism, the fascist political factions in Western European democracies might survive as fringe extremists.
Click to expand...

Hmm... I would have thought that it would be more not less fringe (possibly a mainstream fascist party?)
 

Strategos' Risk

Fascism stays in Austria as well without an assassination on Dollfuß. Subsequent historians will regard it as a Catholic phenomenon.
 
Aelita

Aelita

The Great Depression pretty much made some sort of armed conflict between socialists and fascists inevitable. It started in the streets of the Weimar Republic, with fascist and communist paramilitaries battling for turf in a manner not all that dissimilar to gangs, and it just got worse from there. The Second World War was just the final conflict between the two ideologies.

Bottom line, if you want to avoid World War 2, you need to avoid the Reichstag Fire Decrees and the Enabling Act in Germany. The former allowed the Nazis and their conservative allies the pretext to end legal opposition, and the latter was fait accompli for Nazi totalitarianism. Once the Nazis have complete mastery of the state, an armed confrontation with the Soviet Union is ultimately inevitable.

Further, simply removing Hitler or even the Nazi regime won't stop the Spanish Civil War in itself; that's a pretty big butterfly there. It may make the putchists more cautious, but without the threat of growing German militarism, the West may be even more willing to sell Spain out to the fascists.

Not to mention, none of this would remove the pre-war French reactionary right, which were more than happy to set up Vichy if it meant destroying the Socialists and Communists in their country.

The Great Depression is still going to be a turbulent era, and in the final act, I suspect the violence between socialists and fascists will end up being played out on an international scale.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Strategos' Risk said:
Fascism stays in Austria as well without an assassination on Dollfuß. Subsequent historians will regard it as a Catholic phenomenon.
Click to expand...
Actually, fascism is an overwhelmingly Catholic phenomenon: the Vatican officially backed every single fascist order in Europe aside from the Romanians (for obvious reasons). If you look up "fascism" in interwar Europe and replace every example of it with "Catholic far-right", the story is almost the exact same.
 

Zajir

The OP says that
"So, let's say that Hitler dies in some ignominious accident in early 1934, and someone more moderate and not as insane takes over, and war is averted"
so I assume that somebody who is still nazi/fascist/voelkisch is in power,no?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Zajir said:
The OP says that
"So, let's say that Hitler dies in some ignominious accident in early 1934, and someone more moderate and not as insane takes over, and war is averted"
so I assume that somebody who is still nazi/fascist/voelkisch is in power,no?
Click to expand...
I think that'd be a safe assumption. Göring will more than likely take over, and he was more of a fascist than a Nazi.
GTAmario said:
This. Stalin takes over most of Europe until Stavros goes all Greek debt crisis on his ass.
Click to expand...
Stalin going to war against the West isn't going to happen. He knew that he couldn't beat the West because then you'd probably get a pan-European coalition against the Reds. The fascists splitting the Western camp was a godsend to Stalin.
 

Whanztastic

Wendell said:
Fascism gets viewed as a more credible ideology, and draws no more public scorn than Communism today.
Click to expand...

Many still scorn Communism. Fascism would probably get even less, given that the Soviet Union was threat to nearly everyone else for 50 years while Fascism would just be seen as a minor movement, unless China goes Fascist.
 

Wendell

Whanztastic said:
Many still scorn Communism. Fascism would probably get even less, given that the Soviet Union was threat to nearly everyone else for 50 years while Fascism would just be seen as a minor movement, unless China goes Fascist.
Click to expand...

Well, with fascism surviving, various rightist regimes after what would have been World War II might claim the fascist mantle who could not have in our timeline. Furthermore, depending on the POD, Japan could be fascist too.
 

Strategos' Risk

Wolfpaw said:
Actually, fascism is an overwhelmingly Catholic phenomenon: the Vatican officially backed every single fascist order in Europe aside from the Romanians (for obvious reasons). If you look up "fascism" in interwar Europe and replace every example of it with "Catholic far-right", the story is almost the exact same.
Click to expand...

Yes, but because of Nazi Germany when we think of fascism we think of eugenics and Hitlerism. And when we think of Fascist Italy, we think of Mussolini being an amusing fat man and the weakness of the Italian military.
 

The Uchronian

Whanztastic said:
Many still scorn Communism. Fascism would probably get even less, given that the Soviet Union was threat to nearly everyone else for 50 years while Fascism would just be seen as a minor movement, unless China goes Fascist.
Click to expand...

China could very well go fascist in a few years OTL, at the rate things are going! :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top