Exit the Haze: Hitler – The Master strategist who resurrected Germany as a global power

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Sorry had a mistake in my post. The USA had already 1940 started to increase armaments (not LL) really big time so LL was just a logical conclusion.

Yes with less bombings the mood in the population was not going to swing that fast and far toward LL but 69% of the US population were in favor Feb 41. The votings in the houses were far from close.

Hitler would have to make much more serious concessions to have the US population and politicians change the mood that much.

I regret to say, as gleened from my post, that this isn't a serious or sensible timeline.

It's an Axis victory timeline, where the UK, the Soviet Union and now the US leadership spend their time drinking lead paint. Nothing more than that.
We really should just cut to the chase:
1940 - Hitler stops taking drugs.
1941 - Germany defeats Soviet Union
1942 - Germany defeats UK in Operation Sealion
1943 - Germany invades USA and clears up in twenty minutes.

There we go. Job done.

Sorry for spoiling the ending of TL for anyone who was reading the detail.
 
I regret to say, as gleened from my post, that this isn't a serious or sensible timeline.

It's an Axis victory timeline, where the UK, the Soviet Union and now the US leadership spend their time drinking lead paint. Nothing more than that.
We really should just cut to the chase:
1940 - Hitler stops taking drugs.
1941 - Germany defeats Soviet Union
1942 - Germany defeats UK in Operation Sealion
1943 - Germany invades USA and clears up in twenty minutes.

There we go. Job done.

Sorry for spoiling the ending of TL for anyone who was reading the detail.
The impression I got from previous updates is that Germany will still lose the war but it'll take a little longer than it did in OTL but you must be clairvoyant.
Good for you.
 
Chapter 15: The first Atlantic conference, April 1941, New Foundland.
Chapter 15: The first Atlantic conference, April 1941, New Foundland.
The international meeting was hosted to provide a common ground and maneuver room for British efforts in combating the German menace, following the delays in passing a bill for the suggested lend-lease agreement.
Both Roosevelt and Churchill understood that Britain had taken the burden of defending democracy on its shoulders, and would need support in the billions of dollar range, to do anything about this. Alas, a declining majority in the US congress still felt that the US should remain isolationist and that the Lend-Lease represented a de facto co-belligerence state of the US, which could trigger a war they though the United States should stay out off.
The need to free Europe from the fascist was sharply contradicted by the Vichy France. They communicated that signing a peace agreement between the British and the Germans was the path to a normalization between France and Germany. This was explained in an interview-article that happened to coincide with the Atlantic Conference in the New York Times by the Vichy-French ambassador in Washington.
Alas, behind the closed doors in the conference room, it was not a question of if the US should support Britain, but how. Basing rights was one option for which the US could establish bases on islands such as Bermuda, free up English forces and perhaps be compensated more than was their due, but it would not go far enough.
Churchill further expressed his fear that Germany might align with Vichy France, to wrestle the Middle East from the Empire, but it was not the kind of troubles that would swing American voters. Something more radical was needed.
The scheme the two leaders came up with has only recently been uncovered as premeditated, but it involved accelerated sanctions against the Japanese as this could draw in the Germans as a Japanese ally and even in the case it could not draw in Germany, it would be comparable easy to support the British if both countries were at war with Japan.
The conclusion of the meeting would be freezing of Japanese assets in the US and an oil embargo. Roosevelt would further work to secure British loans under the cash-and-carry by using West Indian colonies as collateral at a high evaluation.
 
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Chapter 15 is an attempt to illustrate that the butterflies flip their wings in both directions.
On postponement of Lend-Lease: Find a way to support the British was something Roosevelt supported from the get-go. Strategic arguments bear no weight here as they were already understood OTL and didnt convince the isolationalist who wanted the US out of the war (and they were right that Roosevelt wanted them to enter the war).
Bringing up the Japanese isolation as a deliberate move is not unlikely. It was seen as such IOTL and the US populace did support a tough stance on the Japanese aggressor. The only reason why it was not earlier was that Roosevelt would not have the distraction. Hence it came post lend-lease, now they switch order.
 
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I regret to say, as gleened from my post, that this isn't a serious or sensible timeline.

It's an Axis victory timeline, where the UK, the Soviet Union and now the US leadership spend their time drinking lead paint. Nothing more than that.
We really should just cut to the chase:
1940 - Hitler stops taking drugs.
1941 - Germany defeats Soviet Union
1942 - Germany defeats UK in Operation Sealion
1943 - Germany invades USA and clears up in twenty minutes.


There we go. Job done.

Sorry for spoiling the ending of TL for anyone who was reading the detail.
Hopefully not bringing too much of a spoiler by saying that you are wrong and/or not accurate in what you are not dead wrong about. You got the POD right though.
So not a claivoyant.
But on the question of drinking lead paint? Who had more than their documented OTL fill in this TL?
Sorry to ask a serious reply from an unserious post
 
Chapter 16: Continued offensives in Barbarossa:
Chapter 16: Continued offensives in Barbarossa:
The strategic conundrum for the German high command after a month of fighting and staggering successes was that the expected army goal had mostly been achieved. A Russian army of more or less the expected size had been destroyed in the western part of the Soviet Union. The problem was that it looked like an army of similar size still had to be fought, now deeper into Russia.
Hitler’s emphasis on not taking the early defeat for granted resounded loudly among the general staff, and the continuous pursuit of railroad interdiction deep in advance of the armies proved fortunate. In Leningrad and the Ukraine, several industrial centers had been overrun intact, including many in Leningrad and Odessa, but it was also clear that a massive emphasis had been put on evacuating industrial tools eastwards. Railroad congestions now seemed to take an effect, resulting in the capture of more rolling stuck and a less successful evacuation.
What remained now was the need to balance speed of capture with the need to fight battles with a favorable loss and attrition ratio. It was deemed likely that the most favorable conditions for this now existed in an all-out offensive towards and beyond Smolensk. AGC would receive the rushed resupply of two armored corps from AGN to cover their flanks as the strategic depth increased and the majority of air support previously dedicated to AGN.
AGS were at the same time close to Kiev, but also saw the largest concentration of opposition in front of it. Here is was decided that AGS would maintain a screening force in front of Kiev, but with the main armored force attacking on the west bank of the Dniepr river which would be crossed further east to form the southern prong of a giant pincer movement. Closing this gap would be the job of armors from AGC after the attack on Smolensk, or of the reserves pouring in from AGN.
A considerable uncertainty was the depth of the attack to conduct along the Dniepr river and if all of its armored forces were needed to close the Pincer in Kiev as continuing along the Dniepr offered the chance to collapse the Russian Southern Front.
Manstein offered what would become the solution by suggesting to redeploy his armored corps towards AGS for the encirclement of the Southwestern front guarding Kiev and in this case only redeploy one armored corps to AGC. This would mean a delayed close of the Pincer around Kiev, but possibly a gamble worth taking if the Soviets tried to hang on to it. Hitler instantly liked the idea and thus the main armored forces jumped to life again on July 7th. Kleist and Rommel raced towards Kharkov and two gigantic spearheads attacked eastwards towards Smolensk from Vitebsk and Mogilev. With full support from their mobile infantry, and an unparalleled support of CAS and total air supremacy, the 2nd and 3rd Panzer groups closed the pockets in 7 days capturing several Russian armies including close to 400000 prisoners*. Several counterattacks followed, particular around the Yelna salient, but the Luftwaffe did an impressive job in breaking these up and minimizing German losses. Westwards, forces coming in from AGN were left to liquidate the pocket and infantry support rapidly reinforced the Yelna bridgehead and with German armor being capable of striking soviet counterattacks. After a week and a half of concerted attacks by the Red Army, the Germans were still increasing the size and strength of the bridgehead on July 20th**.
In the meantime, the AGS continued its advance along the Dnieper river, in particular with Rommel’s panzer division making extreme gain and reached Dnipropetrovsk on the 19th. Strong Soviet counter-attacks and the advance beyond air superiority however meant that Rommel had to withdraw again and pull back 30 km’s with a much weakened force. By this time a bridgehead on the Dniepr had been established 150 km further back at Kementjuk, which was fortunate because it would not before the beginning of August that the offensive could resume out of Dnipropetrovsk. Further south, the 12th army and the Romanian army had a tough going to expand their bridgehead across the Dniester river, but did manage to reach the Krim Peninsula 60 km’s ahead of their bridgehead on the Dniester river and to press onwards towards Melitopol. From Melitopol the Panzer group had to strike north to relieve the pressure on Rommel’s battered and exposed spearhead, with Romanian infantry charged with making progress over the Crimean Peninsula.

*They almost did it in 8 days in OTL, not too much to ask that they complete it ITTL.
Overall, the Germans are in a lot better position than IOT. They may not be very much further ahead but they have have inflicted higher losses and taken less attrition than IOTL, and off course, the capture of Leningrad is a major difference, which now makes the obstacles smaller and losses easier to absorb. Still the Germans are fighting hard with the distances involved and the natural obstacles.

**This is were the more consolidated jump off point and the influx of forces from AGN comes most clearly into effect.
 

sonofrome

Banned
It would be interesting to see the Soviet perspective and particularly the political situation in the soviet union as their front line collapses.
 
Fw 190 had too high of a landing speed.
Only good German carrier plane in WW2 as the Fi 167.
Ju 87 was ok.
Germany had no good carrier fighters.
Yeah, I forgot that part :p
I did this thread a few years back on using He100 on the Graf Zeppelin. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/he-100s-on-zeppelin.420542/
Is that or a he112b with the newest DB engine then more likely as a limited production run.
I have a feeling Heinkel might jump at a tender for a carrier fighter, simply to get back in the race
 
It would be interesting to see the Soviet perspective and particularly the political situation in the soviet union as their front line collapses.
Agreed, I will try and get to it.
Anyone have any thoughts about what the Germans would do with the KV factory in Leningrad?
 
I did this thread a few years back on using He100 on the Graf Zeppelin. https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/he-100s-on-zeppelin.420542/
Is that or a he112b with the newest DB engine then more likely as a limited production run.
I have a feeling Heinkel might jump at a tender for a carrier fighter, simply to get back in the race
As much as I like the He 100, it was NO carrier fighter.
Landing gear was weaker than the Bf 109 even though it should have been better and landing speed was even higher than the Fw 190.
Not good carrier fighter traits.
Fix the landing gear and you get an awesome fighter that's better than the Bf 109 in many ways but it could never become a carrier fighter.

In fact, Germany never should have even thought about building ACs.
Other nations had the last 2 decades to play with them, while Germany was literally rushing a project with no time to spare.
Best thing the Germans could have done was build seaplane carriers and used them as a portable recon base.
 
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Agreed, I will try and get to it.
Anyone have any thoughts about what the Germans would do with the KV factory in Leningrad?
These things increase in numbers:
Best heavy tank the Germans never put in mass production.
KV-1C mitt 7,5cm Kwk.jpg
 
Althrought might not be compatable with the current timeline (i.e. late summer 1941), this link might give some good ideas:
http://www.luft46models.com/biblio/trager/trager2.jpg
Wunderwaffen, a literal ASB comic. x'Dx'Dx'D
And Germany could never get Japanese planes just like Japan could never receive German planes.
Too far away.
 
Wunderwaffen, a literal ASB comic. x'Dx'Dx'D
And Germany could never get Japanese planes just like Japan could never receive German planes.
Too far away.
I know it's just something fun to think about
There's literaly a S**t ton of stuff incapable of been done in OTL, but still, it's fun to think about
 
As much as I like the He 100, it was NO carrier fighter.
Landing gear was weaker than the Bf 109 even though it should have been better and landing speed was even higher than the Fw 190.
Not good carrier fighter traits.
Fix the landing gear and you get an awesome fighter that's better than the Bf 109 in many ways but it could never become a carrier fighter.

In fact, Germany never should have even thought about building ACs.
Other nations had the last 2 decades to play with them, while Germany was literally rushing a project with no time to spare.
Best thing the Germans could have done was build seaplane carriers and used them as a portable recon base.
Now they have one and the bf109 T is killing pilots....As I Saw it the stall speed of the he-100 was not different from the f-4, and that was not a design meant for carriers at all. Anyways, a tender is out for a carrier fighter in Fall 1941. Question is what would come up?
 
Wunderwaffen, a literal ASB comic. x'Dx'Dx'D
And Germany could never get Japanese planes just like Japan could never receive German planes.
Too far away.
Here's a crazy idea, the Germans get license to build Japanese aircraft and put German engines in them. :) :cool:
Nakajima Ki-80 w BMW 801D-2 -- 2 x13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 MG's & 4 x20 mm MG 151-20E Cannons.png
 
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