Exit the Haze: Hitler – The Master strategist who resurrected Germany as a global power

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The incredible ability of the Bismarck and Tirptz to absorb damage?

Is this meant to be in ASB?

While the above is personal comment, this whole thing is taking the same trail as some of your previous, detached from any sort of plausible (ya' know, the thing that is sort of required in Post 1900), Happy Reich threads.
I didnt mean to imply that the T&B were still working, just still afloat, and I lay myself flat down for criticism of this TL’s Pacific war. Not the main focus, but it sort of belonged.
For the western part I think its a fairly creative attempt with a rather late POD.
 

CalBear

Moderator
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I didnt mean to imply that the T&B were still working, just still afloat, and I lay myself flat down for criticism of this TL’s Pacific war. Not the main focus, but it sort of belonged.
For the western part I think its a fairly creative attempt with a rather late POD.
Creative in this case stretches the term like a pizza dough as it is hand tossed.
 

ferdi254

Banned
Creative does not get you 2.5 mio tons of war material produced and shipped to Alamein. It does not get you 8 mio sheep, 4 mio cows, 40ktons high quality steel, around 200k trained workers a couple 1000 k tons of fuel...

plus an abysmally stupid UK.

I will repeat myself: Thrashing the USSR is possible. Doing this AND winning North Africa is impossible with a June 1940 POD.
 
Creative in this case stretches the term like a pizza dough as it is hand tossed.
The POD is a low probability event, but it is sort of disclaimed on post 1. I think we need to explore also these kinds of POD when we discuss what could have been done.
After the POD....I'm not so sure. I certainly found a lot of instances where a changed Führer outlook could have changed things for the better from an axis perspective. Also much earlier than I had expected it.
 
Chapter 40: Epilogue
Chapter 40: Epilogue
The battle of the Philippines marked the end of large-scale battles in WW2 for the German side. Germany would off course continue with submarine warfare, which rapidly depleted Japanese transport capacity so that by 1943 all offensive action were impossible, and Germany would also contribute bomber squadrons throughout 1942 until the Japanese surrender in 1944. The participation in the naval surface battles were crucial diplomatic successes as it assured American goodwill towards the German third Reich. Because of the ongoing war effort, little emphasis was placed on the plight of the Jewish immigrants deported to Kameroon and Tanganyika. Here thousands died every year from 1942-52 while the fore-runners worked feverishly to accommodate the next wave of settlers. Also, because of the Jewish exodus, attention was drawn away from events in the occupied Russia. Here several millions disappeared every year and the native populations were used to run farms, expand the mining industries and to assist German settler families often under slave like conditions. Germany could use the surplus of food to establish positive trade relations with un-occupied Europe and China and gradually de-escalate the massive war mobilization the Germans found themselves in at the end of 1942
This is not to say that Germany de-mobilized into a small military, but it focused on creating an effective army for the coming decades. Russia could be reached with an effective bombimg campaign and all of Britain would become within reach of German cruise missiles and ballistic missiles stationed in based France. Such missiles would be armed with Sarin loaded warheads.
For the Navy, Germany realized that everything could not be left to the Italians now, but their navy’s capital ships were all but destroyed. The decision to rebuild Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Bismarck and Tirpitz was taken for political reasons and the next building wave would focus on aircraft carriers and fast underwater submarines to dominate the North Sea. Hence, Germany would lay down 2 battleships and 6 new aircraft carriers in 1943.
For the land forces, a considerable strength was needed to maintain order in the occupied soviet union, and with the expectations that military dominance was required in Europe, Germany went for a 110 division army with a mobilization potential to 200 divisions. Over the next 6-7 years, it was the plan to replace most of the heavy equipment and mobilize the infantry divisions.
The full story of the scale of German murders in Eastern Europe only became gradually revealed, and many people would stay in denial, as was the official German response. In any case, by the mid-1950’s Germany was so integrated in an economic bloc with consisting of Europe and China with the middle-East as the minor players, that there was little to be done against the Third Reich.
Should something have been done? This remains a key question. Certainly, before the surrender of Japan and the development of the atomic bomb in 1945 nothing realistic could have been done, and thereafter, it didn’t take long before the Germans detonated their own bomb in 1948 and send their first rocket into orbit in 1949. After that, war mongers grew silent and favored a containment strategy of the Third Reich. Such a strategy included sending massive military aid to Siberia and hence fueled an arms race. Here, Hitler focused on the good defensive positions and a strategic strike capability to ensure that Siberia never became a strategic threat.
 
As warned in the first post, I never intended this TL to go very deep, I simply explored a pod that came from another TL.
I am sorry for those who enjoyed it that I chose not to take it further, but by the end of Chapter 39, TTL's Hitler had achieved his goals.
 
Well i'll say i'm honestly surprised. There was no Declaration of war by Churchill against the USA and then the Liberation and freedom of TTL's Notzi's and the USA invading the UK and Canada to finally disolve the Empire. And you ACTUALLY put something BAD about the Nazi's with them killing millions but don't worry i'm sure its all done in a 'humane' way right?

Also RE 'Guest Workers of the Reich'
often under slave like conditions.
there's no 'often' about it unless you wanna deny what it was like for those who were taken to work in German factories. They were slaves. Or are you going to say "Oh but its humane...' about that too?
 
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ferdi254

Banned
Excuse me but to be blunt: A slave owner normally had an incentive to keep the slaves alive as they were seen as valuable goods (I know that this is oversimplifying). The Germans in Russia had all intentions in killing of millions so those treated like slaves would have been the lucky ones (pls no discussion about better dead than slave that is beyond the point).

Also you would not have jews in Africa die by the thousands but by the hundreds of thousands each year.
 
No no. Its humane nazis...don't you see? They gave them things...and..err...yeah its humane! #cleanheer #notzi's.

Also you would not have jews in Africa die by the thousands but by the hundreds of thousands each year.

And of course you'd have the Americans do NOTHING about this. you know..err..for..reasons. Hitler said they were on holiday and having a happy fun time so the Americans believed them.

And in case you hadn't guessed i'm disgusted by this white washing sanitized fanfic loveletter to one of if not the worst regimes in history.
 
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Monitor

Donor
there's no 'often' about it unless you wanna deny what it was like for those who were taken to work in German factories. They were slaves. Or are you going to say "Oh but its humane...' about that too
Often might be Alluding that Russia is large. Some settlements, maybe even a lot of the smaller ones might, might be, at least at first, not be affected that much. This will, of course, sadly, change over the next decade or so, but right now, it sounds plausible.

Still, considering the nature of the topic, poor choice of words, again. The Nazis were and are evil...Sadly, some seem to not be believing that. Luckily relatively few on this forum.
 

Monitor

Donor
And of course you'd have the Americans do NOTHING about this. you know..err..for..reasons.
The Americans are one Of the cruelest regimes known to mankind. And they still are not fully reformed from that, 1940s was still incredibly bad. Not as bad as it once were, not nearly as bad as the Nazis, but bad. Also, the USA loves its splendid isolation. For all they care, as long as it does not affect them personally, the world could burn. Short sighted view, maybe, but sadly, especially in that time, true. WWII was an awakening, and it honestly only happens because of direct confrotantions with the USSR. If the USSR had been smart, they might have been able to prevent that...

Also, the USA were surprisingly antisemitic. As long as no official documentation shows up, they will not care (and as long as they have no need to create that documentation (war?!) they will not do that.)
 

Garrison

Donor
So basically in the end there was nothing to this other than 'and the Nazi's lived happily ever after'. All their atrocities glossed over in favour of admiring the cool weapons and smart uniforms, and of course simply having everything happen exactly as the Nazi's need it to happen and pretending this is the result of 'strategic genius'. This isn't a Naziwank, its straight up Nazi worship.
 
So basically in the end there was nothing to this other than 'and the Nazi's lived happily ever after'. All their atrocities glossed over in favour of admiring the cool weapons and smart uniforms, and of course simply having everything happen exactly as the Nazi's need it to happen and pretending this is the result of 'strategic genius'. This isn't a Naziwank, its straight up Nazi worship.
Nah, it isnt. Its just geopolitcal unrealistic.
 
Can someone please tell me how on earth the Nazis get the Bomb? Nuclear weapons require the use of so-called 'Jewish science' so the Nazis were never anywhere even close to getting the Bomb IOTL, but (of course!) in this TL the Germans get it by 1948. Do the British continue the Tube Alloys project? Surely they would get it before Germany, as they had done the basic theoretical work. Oh wait, they're British, they're all drinking lead paint instead of tea.
And in the meantime millions vanish off the map, murdered through deliberate policy and the world does nothing.
 
This is simply not true. ThisTL is the latest in a long line of wish fulfilment fantasies involving a Nazi victory. Anyone familiar with the rest of your output could tell you where it was going from the first paragraph.

But don't worry, its 'okay' because he's writing it in an IC perspective of someone in Germany at the time.....
 
I find it utterly implausible that the Germans would get the nukies before OTL USSR did. The Germany did not have any belief in pursuing nuclear technology and would not have a nuclear programme before 1945 (when the bomb is used in Japan). USSR had infiltrated the Manhatten project and had a respectable programme of its own before 1945, yet they could test only after 1949. At best, Germany would become nuclear armed by mid 1950s. They could contend with chemical deterrents though.
 
I find it utterly implausible that the Germans would get the nukies before OTL USSR did. The Germany did not have any belief in pursuing nuclear technology and would not have a nuclear programme before 1945 (when the bomb is used in Japan). USSR had infiltrated the Manhatten project and had a respectable programme of its own before 1945, yet they could test only after 1949. At best, Germany would become nuclear armed by mid 1950s. They could contend with chemical deterrents though.

I can explain that because this whole thing has basically been doing this (and its nothing lewd, its just Jojo's Bizzare adventure)


To a certain shitty Austrian painter's ass. From the first few lines of the original story you knew this was going to be a wank especially considering the OP's output in the past has ALWAYS been pretty much full on wehraboo, you could probably find some of the more recent Sealion posts where him and a comrade moved the goalposts so much about the Germans in WW2 that it was able to play werhabingo with them. And in all honesty, I'm fine with that, he writes superb technical stuff and the vehicles etc he comes up with are interesting and different!

But I wasn't expecting him to put the word 'humane' into the handful of words given to the extermination of the Slavs and Jews. But he did it. Its why I reported this thread when I saw that. I knew it was going to be a wank of the highest order. But seeing 'humane' when discussing Generalplan Ost provoked me to say the least. I'd honestly not be that surprised if he was posting to get scalps and to deliberately get a rise like his former comrade in arms use to do.
 
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SsgtC

Banned
Honestly, this whole thing has really sickened me. Beyond the utter implausibility of 99.9% of the timeline, the straight up Nazi worship and the blatant, "I'm going to do the bare minimum to keep myself from getting banned for Nazi/genocide apologia," has made me literally sick to my stomach. The fact that anyone would even think to use the word "humane" in relation to Nazi death camps is horrifying.
 
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