I just watching a YouTube video about the mandate of of heaven saying that in the second opium war when the Europeans took beijing some of the population consider this as a sing that the current dynasty had lost the mandate of heaven .
Not only that but the occupation to some proved the Europeans were the "rightful" rulers
And like the mongols and manchu they would also establish a new dynasty of course the european didn't ( the comment claims because they didn't know they had this opportunity)

Asunming the comment is true ( if not then ok) and there were some in china willing to accept this how possible is this ?
I particularly say it's unlikely since controlling china would break the balance of power and I don't think any european power would allow some one to rule the whole of china ?

But is it possible for a war or clever diplomacy to settle this if so how would it look it not would the idea fail due to the fear or war or war it's self?
 
I just watching a YouTube video about the mandate of of heaven saying that in the second opium war when the Europeans took beijing some of the population consider this as a sing that the current dynasty had lost the mandate of heaven .
Not only that but the occupation to some proved the Europeans were the "rightful" rulers
And like the mongols and manchu they would also establish a new dynasty of course the european didn't ( the comment claims because they didn't know they had this opportunity)

Asunming the comment is true ( if not then ok) and there were some in china willing to accept this how possible is this ?
I particularly say it's unlikely since controlling china would break the balance of power and I don't think any european power would allow some one to rule the whole of china ?

But is it possible for a war or clever diplomacy to settle this if so how would it look it not would the idea fail due to the fear or war or war it's self?
One of the Windsors or Hanoverians are perfect for this.
 
I mean...you could maybe get this theoretical dynasty through the early hurdles of establishing a dynasty by taking a hard pro-Han slant and painting the Manchu Qing as occupiers. Completely reliant on the occupying European powers to maintain order in the early stages and through a combination of coercion and bribery get the provincial governors in line. And have the newly imported monarchs speedrun going native. The expelling of the Manchus could be enough political capital to get through these early stages to at least legitimize the new dynasty.

The key problem would be getting the European coalition to uniformly(or even have a majority) back the idea. IMO, you're most likely to set up a compromise candidate than say, a Romanov which I don't see the British ever accepting to the point of being willing to go to war over it.
 
I mean...you could maybe get this theoretical dynasty through the early hurdles of establishing a dynasty by taking a hard pro-Han slant and painting the Manchu Qing as occupiers. Completely reliant on the occupying European powers to maintain order in the early stages and through a combination of coercion and bribery get the provincial governors in line. And have the newly imported monarchs speedrun going native. The expelling of the Manchus could be enough political capital to get through these early stages to at least legitimize the new dynasty.

The key problem would be getting the European coalition to uniformly(or even have a majority) back the idea. IMO, you're most likely to set up a compromise candidate than say, a Romanov which I don't see the British ever accepting to the point of being willing to go to war over it.
Who would the the best compromise candidate for the emperor of china ...
And would he due trade deals with other Europeans and have their help to bribe the chinese also what about chirstianity? Previous emperors had tried to make their religion the official one would it be the same with the european candidate?
 
How about you have Ming limping on for some more time until Russia is expanded to the border. Then Ming collapse happens and Jurchens invade the North, but are stopped by Russians invited in by certain nobles. Hence, Russians are saviors and the Czar gets the Mandate.
 
How about you have Ming limping on for some more time until Russia is expanded to the border. Then Ming collapse happens and Jurchens invade the North, but are stopped by Russians invited in by certain nobles. Hence, Russians are saviors and the Czar gets the Mandate.
If I remember correctly, the Qing state considered the Russian emperors as co-equal to the Celestial Throne of the Middle Kingdom. Perhaps an ideology emerges of a 'two celestial empires merge' within China that fits within Confucian thought and comes to be the dominant viewpoint within literate Chinese society and is in turn utilized by Russia. Such an imperial complex in Asia would be a true behemoth and would have extreme and enormous weight.
 
How about you have Ming limping on for some more time until Russia is expanded to the border. Then Ming collapse happens and Jurchens invade the North, but are stopped by Russians invited in by certain nobles. Hence, Russians are saviors and the Czar gets the Mandate.
Boy I don't think france and britain would be very happy of russia got china especially in the 1850s
 
One common misconception seems to be dominating this thread - the Mandate of Heaven was not a politically significant idea, it was a technical term primarily used by Chinese academics to analyse the rise and fall of dynasties. It would have no benefit for a hypothetical European dynast claiming China.

Claiming the throne of China could be done one of two ways and neither would end well.
A) The ruler would have to sinicise even more than the Yuan and Qing ruling families. They would need to adopt Chinese spirituality, lift racial restrictions and accept the competence of local administrators. This would make the European aristocracy....uncomfortable to say the least. This would also fail to appease most of the Chinese governing class, who spent the 19th century developing a national consciousness and growing in resentment of even Sinicised Manchu rule. Eventually a popular general would rise up, seize the capital and declare a new dynasty, and that's if the Qing can't get themselves restored to the throne (as happened briefly in 1917 OTL).

B) Claiming the throne and ruling by force without regard to local sentiment would be doomed to collapse in a few years. Riots would take place nationwide, and the country would splinter with religious sects and warlords like OTL. In real life imperialist European powers mostly backed the Qing to avoid the cost of occupying China, and during the Second Sino-Japanese War Japan constructed puppet states instead of direct annexing land for the same reason. Most countries found Americas Open Door Policy to be more to their profit, which a Habsburg candidate would not be able to arrange.

In short, the POD to make this happen as anything other than a footnote would have to be so far back as to make the world unrecognisable.
 
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