Effect on Soviet culture of being first to the moon?

[fasquardon]

So here is a question, especially for those of you who, like @WotanArgead are actually from the Former Soviet Union:

If the Soviets are seen to have "won" the moon race (so most likely they are first to the moon landing, though I can see other paths to victory), what effect does that have on the culture of the Soviet Union, the attitudes of its leadership and how the people see their country?

fasquardon

 

[Archibald]

Well, Jimmy Carter malaise is even stronger.

 

[fasquardon]

Well, Jimmy Carter malaise is even stronger.

The Carter malaise was a thing in Soviet culture too?

fasquardon

 

[Archibald]

I mean that America will be even further humiliated, to the great pleasure of Soviet citizens. They really loved the space program. Without NASA being in a position of strength (Apollo 11) Apollo-Soyuz probably never happens.

 

[Pangur]

Well, Jimmy Carter malaise is even stronger.

How does Jimmy Carter get in the mix? The Soviet moon landing would have been before he came in to office - least ways sky high chance it would have been

 

[Archibald]

I meant, the 60's - 70's turmoil in America - Vietnam, watergate, stagflation, racial tensions... what Carter christened "malaise" in his 1979 speech. That what I meant.

Apollo 8 and Apollo 11 were glorious moment of national pride in very troubled years (1968 was horrific, 1969 wasn't much better). without these glorious moment, the overall mood in america is even lower.

 

[Perkeo]

The Sowjets feel like they are invincible, which can have huge advantages and disadvantages depending on how wise their leaders are.
But there's one very important question: Do the USA admit defeat or do they open the next round?

 

[WotanArgead]

So here is a question, especially for those of you who, like @WotanArgead are actually from the Former Soviet Union:

If the Soviets are seen to have "won" the moon race (so most likely they are first to the moon landing, though I can see other paths to victory), what effect does that have on the culture of the Soviet Union, the attitudes of its leadership and how the people see their country?

fasquardon

Okay - I do not even know where to start.
First of all, we must understand that the period from 1966 to 1972 is the time of a sharp rise in the standard of living of the population (there was no shortage of goods). If this is multiplied by the victory in the space race, then this will be an extremely remarkable time.
On the other hand, there is another interesting point - in the 60s (the most favorable time for the Soviet Union), in my country there was a huge interest in Western fashion and music (I saw many films of that era - it was like a game - "find 10 differences "). And most importantly, the bureaucrats from the Central Committee looked at it through their fingers. Why? I'm interested in the theme of the ideology's spreading and I can say that when someone's lifestyle is created, there is a risk of picking up the way of thinking (for our thinking depends on how we live), but in the 1960s interest was just interest. This does not mean that there was no risk - it was just then that confidence in one's own superiority was strong. This was perceived as something transient, far from the most significant. "Well, what with the fact that the jeans - but we are the main ones in space." - in other words, the Soviet ideology had material confirmation of its rightness.
As soon as Soviet ideology became less significant, ideological attacks on Western music and fashion immediately began, but everyone did not care. As a result, hunting for Western brands began.
On the other hand, we must take into account that every next flight caused less and less excitement. I think that landing on a natural satellite will cause an unprecedented level of glee, but the effect of it will last two or three years. However, if my father believes, the cosmonauts still enjoyed immense popularity.
Quite possibly the thawing mood lasted even longer, but much depends on the politics of the Politburo (the creation or non-creation of a studio for science fiction films, the economic situation, the history of the Third CPSU Program ...). However, there is an event that can and does not depend on the will of the CPSU - the tragic death of Yuri Gagarin . Many claim that the Thaw ended in the Prague Spring - this is not entirely true. The fact is that this was known mostly by a handful of intellectuals. Yes - this event lowered the international prestige of the USSR, killed hopes for the democratization of the ruling apparatus, but the majority of the population was worried about the death of Yuri Alexievich. After that, everything turned out so ... ordinary, bored .... gray.

 

[WotanArgead]

I meant, the 60's - 70's turmoil in America - Vietnam, watergate, stagflation, racial tensions... what Carter christened "malaise" in his 1979 speech. That what I meant.

Apollo 8 and Apollo 11 were glorious moment of national pride in very troubled years (1968 was horrific, 1969 wasn't much better). without these glorious moment, the overall mood in america is even lower.

And what happened? And how much the United States was close to the social revolution?

 

[fasquardon]

But there's one very important question: Do the USA admit defeat or do they open the next round?

The 70s were a period of strong budget stress and the usual ideas for "the next round" (either a moon base or mars) would be stunningly expensive.

Also, the utility of upping the ante will be hard to justify politically. I suspect that the US would be most likely to claim second place on the moon race and then try to build a re-useable space shuttle as per otl (since, as OTL, achieving a large reduction in costs/kg to orbit is the key to dominating in space, so in a scenario where the space race were more serious, the shuttle still looks like a strong play to beat The Enemy). Unlike OTL, the funding for such an effort might be better, however.

Okay - I do not even know where to start.
First of all, we must understand that the period from 1966 to 1972 is the time of a sharp rise in the standard of living of the population (there was no shortage of goods). If this is multiplied by the victory in the space race, then this will be an extremely remarkable time.
On the other hand, there is another interesting point - in the 60s (the most favorable time for the Soviet Union), in my country there was a huge interest in Western fashion and music (I saw many films of that era - it was like a game - "find 10 differences "). And most importantly, the bureaucrats from the Central Committee looked at it through their fingers. Why? I'm interested in the theme of the ideology's spreading and I can say that when someone's lifestyle is created, there is a risk of picking up the way of thinking (for our thinking depends on how we live), but in the 1960s interest was just interest. This does not mean that there was no risk - it was just then that confidence in one's own superiority was strong. This was perceived as something transient, far from the most significant. "Well, what with the fact that the jeans - but we are the main ones in space." - in other words, the Soviet ideology had material confirmation of its rightness.
As soon as Soviet ideology became less significant, ideological attacks on Western music and fashion immediately began, but everyone did not care. As a result, hunting for Western brands began.
On the other hand, we must take into account that every next flight caused less and less excitement. I think that landing on a natural satellite will cause an unprecedented level of glee, but the effect of it will last two or three years. However, if my father believes, the cosmonauts still enjoyed immense popularity.
Quite possibly the thawing mood lasted even longer, but much depends on the politics of the Politburo (the creation or non-creation of a studio for science fiction films, the economic situation, the history of the Third CPSU Program ...). However, there is an event that can and does not depend on the will of the CPSU - the tragic death of Yuri Gagarin . Many claim that the Thaw ended in the Prague Spring - this is not entirely true. The fact is that this was known mostly by a handful of intellectuals. Yes - this event lowered the international prestige of the USSR, killed hopes for the democratization of the ruling apparatus, but the majority of the population was worried about the death of Yuri Alexievich. After that, everything turned out so ... ordinary, bored .... gray.

Did the interest in Western brands get serious in the 60s or the 70s? Soviet trade with the West exploded in the 70s, as the oil crisis encouraged the Soviets to trade oil for western manufactured products - especially consumer goods like jeans. So how much of the interest in things Western was increased opportunity due to greater trade between the Soviets and the West?

The "morale effect" of success in the space race is interesting to speculate about. Certainly, for Americans their moon landings have become a totem often invoked by those seeking to rouse American morale to action. I'm not aware of anyone being able to prove that it had much effect on the economic trajectory of the US or on how ordinary Americans lived their lives. So I have no idea if a Soviet victory would translate into a more motivated Soviet workforce.

I do wonder if it would lead to the Soviet leadership having more confidence in Soviet scientists and engineers. For example, does it mean the Soviets continue developing their indigenous computer designs, rather than stealing IBM's current model? Would it make the Soviets less prone to letting their paranoia drive them to copy a poor American shuttle design as they did OTL?

And considering that Khrushchev is likely to be out of power (replaced by his enemies or his chosen successor depending on how things went), does beating the US to the moon lead to Khrushchev and his policies being seen in a better light by both liberals and conservatives in the Soviet government? Or would credit for another space win go to whoever the current leaders were at the time of the landing?

fasquardon

 

[WotanArgead]

Did the interest in Western brands get serious in the 60s or the 70s? Soviet trade with the West exploded in the 70s, as the oil crisis encouraged the Soviets to trade oil for western manufactured products - especially consumer goods like jeans. So how much of the interest in things Western was increased opportunity due to greater trade between the Soviets and the West?

Somewhere in the early 50's, there were "stilyags" - people consciously imitating the Western fashion and dancing Boogie-Bug. They were actively criticized and exasperated.
In the 59th year in Sokolniki there was the American Industrial Exhibition (though with varying success). The first jeans were bought in the 64th. The youth dances a twist, but the older ones take it easy. In the 1970s, there really was more Western goods, they turned into a fetish. Roughly speaking, buying these goods (often paying inconceivable money to the bargains) the philistine hoped to become a "resident of the West."

The "morale effect" of success in the space race is interesting to speculate about. Certainly, for Americans their moon landings have become a totem often invoked by those seeking to rouse American morale to action. I'm not aware of anyone being able to prove that it had much effect on the economic trajectory of the US or on how ordinary Americans lived their lives. So I have no idea if a Soviet victory would translate into a more motivated Soviet workforce.

My compatriots also belong to the Second World War and the Flying of the Vostok-1 spacecraft. I think from one more idol they will completely lose their heads.
Actually, I never thought about the impact of space flights on economic policy.

I do wonder if it would lead to the Soviet leadership having more confidence in Soviet scientists and engineers. For example, does it mean the Soviets continue developing their indigenous computer designs, rather than stealing IBM's current model? Would it make the Soviets less prone to letting their paranoia drive them to copy a poor American shuttle design as they did OTL?

Perhaps ... But it is possible that bureaucrats will decide that they can relax.
Here one POD isn't limited.

And considering that Khrushchev is likely to be out of power (replaced by his enemies or his chosen successor depending on how things went), does beating the US to the moon lead to Khrushchev and his policies being seen in a better light by both liberals and conservatives in the Soviet government? Or would credit for another space win go to whoever the current leaders were at the time of the landing?

Khrushchev will be displaced in any case - he is not too predictable (and his agricultural policy in general became a reason for anecdotes). I read in a single timeline version where he was removed in 1968 (but this is due to the absence of the Caribbean crisis).
It should be noted that the struggle of factions in the Soviet bureaucracy ended only to the 70th. It ended with the victory of "Dnepropetrovsk" headed by Brezhnev. It was opposed by the Shelepin group (Komsomol members) - on the one hand they are reformers, on the other - supporters of a more stringent domestic policy.