Glen
Moderator
It matters because there are going to be plenty of Catholics who will be vehemently against the break from Rome.
True, except that right now they aren't claiming to be breaking away from Rome, merely that a pope hasn't been properly chosen and thus that the seat of St. Peter remains vacant. They are merely caretaking the church until a proper pope is chosen. Of course, they are taking the opportunity to bring the Catholic Church in their nations in line with the policies of the state. They also are in no hurry to see a resolution of the 'vacant papacy'. The laity are more in fear of crossing their own leaders than the Vatican, and as the world economy worsens and theirs are staying, at least on the surface, more stable, they are even becoming complacent about it. I should point out also that both Prussia-Poland and Austria-Hungary have much more conservative populations, and to a degree, clergy, then the rest of Europe at this time. While places like France, Germany, Naples, and Italy are celebrating the elevation of a good, liberal pope, the Eastern Europeans are not happy about it. While the methods may be questioned, many of the laity in those nations and the clergy would like to see a more conservative Bishop of Rome.
It appears that both goverments are setting themselves up as the new Heads of Church, which is exactly what the King of England did, and that didn't go over without some violence erupting.
While that would be one possibility, they aren't announcing that as the actuality, and they have much more sophisticated centralization going in their nations than a medieval king would have had. And you will note that Henry still was able to do it without an actual civil war erupting.
Not only that, but generally governments try to fabricate some kind of legal standing when they do something THAT drastic. (Generally being the keyword, of course). And when you are dealing with ecclesiastical matters, canon law does sort of matter.
They did. They are also obviously wrong. But they are still claiming it. This is not a legal trick, it is a pretext. For those in the West it is obvious. Given how much the crowns of Eastern Europe are now controling the message in their own nations, they are giving enough 'room for doubt' to their populations that they are by and large choosing the easy route of doing nothing. And the ones who do are being silenced pretty quickly.
However, I could see this potentially happening if the Austrian cardinals (outnumbered by liberal Italian (who would make up the bulk) and other Western European cardinals) would cause some sort of disruption, and then getting ejected from the conclave. There could be standing then for the Emperor to do that.
An interesting idea, but have cardinals ever been ejected from a conclave?
I still have a huge issue with the idea that the Prussia-Poland Kaiser would magically be able to split the national hierarchy away from Rome without there being incredibly serious ramifications domestically.
The Poles are going to see this as nothing more than an attempt to make them Protestant and very blunt prussianification (or whatever it would be called), making it less, not more likely they'll want to commit to their relatively new state.
The Kaiser in some ways has played it smart with the Poles. He has raised them to co-equal status (even if Prussians might be first among equals<wink>) with his Prussian subjects. He has given them a true role in the nation, sponsored education (and allowed it in Polish) and infrastructure in Poland. He has in the few decades he has ruled them showed them more leadership then anyone has throughout the 19th century. There is a whole generation of Poles who see the Kaiser as the best thing to happen to Poland (and this image has been carefully, deliberately, fostered). And as I mentioned in a later post, he is not directly taking control of the church, but raising the Primate of Poland (situated in Prussian Pozen, ironically) as the caretaker of the Catholic Church in Prussia-Poland at the time. Right now, most of the Poles are choosing to believe the Kaiser and the Primate when they say this is only a short term measure until this 'crisis' is resolved.
Of course, the Kaiser might be very short sighted, there have been plenty of such rulers, but without ramifications?
Oh, there is that - the situation is not stable as it is, but in the short term it seems to be working. The long term this balancing act will be harder to maintain, and an actual break with the Catholic Church were it to occur would be much harder to maintain without serious backlash.
Admittedly, the post was brief enough that perhaps Glen will tell us more in depth about the situation later!
Also, I'd hate to let my concerns here give the wrong impression - I've been following this thread very closely for the past few months, and I absolutely love it! Glen, you've done a fantastic job with it so far. It's definitely one of the best Timelines on the board.
I appreciate your feedback, your patronage, and your praise! Thanks for coming out of the shadows to share in the DSA timeline experience!