DBWI: Remembering the Massacre at the Bastille.....and a question of what could have been.

[The Uchronian]

IC: So, today is the 227th anniversary of the Massacre at the Bastille, and my cousin is in Paris for the Rememberance Ceremony. Having had an interest in French history myself for some time, this got me thinking? What if the attempt to free the political prisoners of the Crown had succeeded without bloodshed? Would some of the Bourbon royals have been spared, instead of most of them being executed and the few survived being permanently exiled to Corsica, Spain, and several other places? How might French history have developed afterwards, and that of the rest of the world? After all, France is decently well off today, but was relatively modest in stature compared to the other European nations, even including Germany, before 1900, and there was rather a fair bit of uncertainty during the Republic's first sixty years, thanks to the political chaos that came immediately after the Revolution was won. Would a less bloody Revolution have allowed France to soar to even greater heights? Interested to hear your own thoughts on this.....

OOC: Since it's Bastille Day, I thought I'd throw this little DBWI together.....let's see what folks can come up with.

 

[Redolegna]

Typical French republican propaganda. Those rioters were not there to free oppressed prisoners, they were there to stock up on powder and rush to Versailles where the traitor Mirabeau had called for bayonets to murder the king. Bloodshed was the point of the so-called revolution. Here in Britain, we had a real Revolution and we don't call it Glorious for nothing because it was bloodless and removed an actual tyrant who would have foisted Papism upon us.

 

[HIM Dogson]

If by "massacre" you mean government troops defending themselves from violent rioters, then sure. I honestly feel bad for Louis XVI. He inherited his father's problems, he couldn't solve all of them, and his people murdered him for it. That's not even considering the fact that the Vendee was almost completely depopulated by the Revolutionaries. I don't think restoring the French Monarchy is practical, but France needs to admit the wrongdoings of the Revolution and stop glorifying it. Basically in regards to its unfortunate past France needs to be more like Russia and less like America.

 

[Tanc49]

OOC: I don't get how it's a DBWI?

 

[HIM Dogson]

OOC: He means an alternate history where the government fought back instead of being cowards, so it's the mob that got killed instead of the guards.

 

[Tanc49]

Well, one consequence would be that maybe Paris would have been the capital? I mean, a lot of action was taking place in Paris, and one could imagine such a mob taking the government to Paris, or the Assembly going there themselves to pander to them.

 

[Avrorrange]

OOC:The Revolution would have been crushed.One of the things about the revolution was that the more the government and their armies don't resist,the bolder the mob becomes.

 

[ramones1986]

Well IMHO, the hypothetical French republic would become the common enemy of greater European power such as Britain, Spain, Prussia and the Hapsburg Lands, but frankly they would actually contribute something positive to our society, more or less like in the North American War or Independence.

 

[Pischinovski]

Well, one consequence would be that maybe Paris would have been the capital? I mean, a lot of action was taking place in Paris, and one could imagine such a mob taking the government to Paris, or the Assembly going there themselves to pander to them.

Interesting. Paris was one of the world's largest cities at the time and definitely the center of the French monarchy, but it was also a big mess - a stinky, disgusting, overcrowded mess. The city and the nearby Versailles are still today strongly associated with the Bourbon monarchy.

I know Paris is beautiful and charming city today with its old medieval quarters and crooked streets and little houses, but I really don't see the Republicans keeping it as their capital. They didn't in OTL and I don't see why they would in this one either. It was only logical for Tribun Jean-Baptist Bernadotte to order the construction of a new capital in 1809 (later named "Bernadotte" as you all know and now part of "Bernadotte-Orleans"). The USA had already done the same years prior.

OOC:
@ramones1986 it is stated in the OP that the republic lasted for atleast 60 years (and maybe to this day).

 

[Tanc49]

Interesting. Paris was one of the world's largest cities at the time and definitely the center of the French monarchy, but it was also a big mess - a stinky, disgusting, overcrowded mess. The city and the nearby Versailles are still today strongly associated with the Bourbon monarchy.

I know Paris is beautiful and charming city today with its old medieval quarters and crooked streets and little houses, but I really don't see the Republicans keeping it as their capital. They didn't in OTL and I don't see why they would in this one either. It was only logical for Tribun Jean-Baptist Bernadotte to order the construction of a new capital in 1809 (later named "Bernadotte" as you all know and now part of "Bernadotte-Orleans"). The USA had already done the same years prior.

Ah yeah the crazy days of city building. It's from this day that those guys built so many versions of Bernadotte and La Fayette. Seriously, there's basically ten in every regions, bloody administrative nightmare.

Shame that the original buildings burnt in that big fire in the 1860's though, I heard the Revolutionary architectural style was really something. Shit craftmanship though

 

[Redolegna]

Well what do you expect from plebeian nobodies who never attended a geometry class and in all probability couldn't read?

I mean, sure, some of their buildings had a certain quaint naive charm to them but for the most part they were just begging for an accident to happen. Although my family still toasts the deaths of the last regicides in that inferno on March 21st.

 

[Pischinovski]

Well what do you expect from plebeian nobodies who never attended a geometry class and in all probability couldn't read?

I mean, sure, some of their buildings had a certain quaint naive charm to them but for the most part they were just begging for an accident to happen. Although my family still toasts the deaths of the last regicides in that inferno on March 21st.

These "regicides" were (besides general Bonaparte) mostly young man from Orleans who had never even seen combat and had nothing to do with the cruel killings of the royal family. I think you know very well that the inferno was started by royalist troops - they even shot at the burning buildings with canons.
It is quite sikening to read your claims that the Massacre of March 21st was nothing but poor craftmenship.

And by the way: "their buildings had a certain quaint naive charm to them" ... yeah, maybe because they were temporal housing for the workers who build the City of Bernadotte.
Go and visit the Square of the Republic in Bernadotte-Orleans if you want a taste of the architecture of the early republic.

 

[Redolegna]

These "regicides" were (besides general Bonaparte) mostly young man from Orleans who had never even seen combat and had nothing to do with the cruel killings of the royal family. I think you know very well that the inferno was started by royalist troops - they even shot at the burning buildings with canons.
It is quite sikening to read your claims that the Massacre of March 21st was nothing but poor craftmenship.

And by the way: "their buildings had a certain quaint naive charm to them" ... yeah, maybe because they were temporal housing for the workers who build the City of Bernadotte.
Go and visit the Square of the Republic in Bernadotte-Orleans if you want a taste of the architecture of the early republic.

Ah, yes, the usual Republican conspiracy theory. As if there were royalists left in France after the purges of Bonaparte and Bernadotte!

 

[The Uchronian]

Interesting. Paris was one of the world's largest cities at the time and definitely the center of the French monarchy, but it was also a big mess - a stinky, disgusting, overcrowded mess. The city and the nearby Versailles are still today strongly associated with the Bourbon monarchy.

I know Paris is beautiful and charming city today with its old medieval quarters and crooked streets and little houses, but I really don't see the Republicans keeping it as their capital. They didn't in OTL and I don't see why they would in this one either. It was only logical for Tribun Jean-Baptist Bernadotte to order the construction of a new capital in 1809 (later named "Bernadotte" as you all know and now part of "Bernadotte-Orleans"). The USA had already done the same years prior.

OOC:
@ramones1986 it is stated in the OP that the republic lasted for atleast 60 years (and maybe to this day).

OOC: Yes, the Republic is indeed around in the present day, and was never disestablished.

IC: Ah yes, Bernadotte. It's kinda modest for a European capital but it's a wonderful place to visit; the Jewish and African quarters in particular are home to some of the best restaurants in the city, and of course we can't forget the Parizeau theater!

 

[ben0628]

Here in Britain, we had a real Revolution and we don't call it Glorious for nothing because it was bloodless and removed an actual tyrant who would have foisted Papism upon us.

Glorious Revolution? Oh, you mean that successful Dutch invasion against that one island where everyone thinks they haven't lost a war on their own land since 1066.

 

[The Uchronian]

Glorious Revolution? Oh, you mean that successful Dutch invasion against that one island where everyone thinks they haven't lost a war on their own land since 1066.

Also, who talks about "Papism" in Great Britain these days outside some of the more backwards parts of Scotland and the East of England outside of London(although, admittedly, some anti-Catholic prejudice does remain amongst older people in those places, just as it had against Prussian & Austrian Germans, as well as Orthodox Jews, in Wales and Cornwall up until just under 30 years ago, even if said prejudice is/was rarely hardline in either case, at least in recent decades)?

 

[Redolegna]

Glorious Revolution? Oh, you mean that successful Dutch invasion against that one island where everyone thinks they haven't lost a war on their own land since 1066.

I'll have you know we triumphed over the dark and evil machinations of the Jacobite traitor before the great William landed, young jackanape!

Also, who talks about "Papism" in Great Britain these days outside some of the more backwards parts of Scotland and the East of England outside of London(although, admittedly, some anti-Catholic prejudice does remain amongst older people in those places, just as it had against Prussian & Austrian Germans, as well as Orthodox Jews, in Wales and Cornwall up until just under 30 years ago, even if said prejudice is/was rarely hardline in either case, at least in recent decades)?

I'll use any language I please and be damned to you youngsters who wouldn't recognize a Papist if he was making the sign of the cross in front of you! I weep for the future generations of Britain if this scepter'd isle should ever fall to the twin foes of French Republicanism and Romish Popery!

 

[Tanc49]

And by the way: "their buildings had a certain quaint naive charm to them" ... yeah, maybe because they were temporal housing for the workers who build the City of Bernadotte.
Go and visit the Square of the Republic in Bernadotte-Orleans if you want a taste of the architecture of the early republic.

Yeah, it's funny how they took a "back to the land" approach with that weird mix of countryside cottage and barracks. On the official ones still standing I do tend to find the endless cornucopia and roman imagery a bit tacky but eh...

Regarding the rest, well, parading the head of the King on a pike was not exactly tasteful either, nor his kids... It's a chance the Parisian mob was then subdued by the armies coming from the regions. Those guys are always causing trouble, no wonder they moved the capital to Bernadotte.