As the "Republic of China" in Taiwan threatens the People's Republic of China with "atomic destruction" once again and the international community talks about Taiwan but does little but impose sanctions and the fight the occasional skirmish with the Taiwanese navy, I wonder what POD would be required for a non-rogue state Taiwan? Was Taiwan becoming a rogue state inevitable when it was kicked out of the UN and the US stopped recognizing it? Or could it have been averted even if both events still happened?
DBWI: Have Taiwan not be a rogue state
- Thread starter Whiteshore
- Start date
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- dbwi roc rogue state taiwan
Lost Freeway
Banned
I really don't see why we should support Beijing over Taipei. Everything the KMT does the CCP does too.
It's a country run by a clique of deposed military despots who base their legitimacy and identity on being the rightful rules of a country astronomically larger and more populous then they are and that pretty firmly rejected them. They only managed to last this long due to Western patronage for Cold War reasons, and even then they managed to make America run out of patience! There is no scenario where they don't end up as a rouge state. I suppose we could imagine a case where the KMT get overthrown, but honestly the Peoples Republic would probably just reabsorb it, especially once America starts to warm up to them.
For starters, the Taiwanese are notorious for backing far-right terrorists all over the world as well and their President recieved Richard Spencer and even gave him a medal!
Lost Freeway
Banned
There are two things you need to change.
- Prevent Nixon from establishing a rapport with Beijing. Nixon's visit to China so enraged Chiang Kai-shek that he immediately ended all diplomatic relations with the US.
- Prevent Chiang Ching-Kuo from dying in a car crash in 1970. The younger Chink-Kuo supposedly had some liberal leanings compared to his adopted brother Chiang Wei-Kuo, who took over from the elder Chiang after his death.
So, what do you think of the fact many in the far-right lionize the "Republic of China" and view it as an example of "pure Chinese civilization fighting against Marxist degeneracy"?
Good luck at that. It's a small island which claims not only China but giant chunks of Russia as well AND all of Mongolia. The crazy bastards think they're the Qing Dynasty reborn. They certainly are the Qing Dynasty, if you took the worst parts of it and applied it to one country.
That said, it would be sad if they weren't a rogue nation. There's some nice arcane bits of Chinese culture there. I hear there are legit opium dens, 19th century style, in some rural towns. If the "Republic of China" were integrated with the international community, I bet we wouldn't see such an intriguing land stuck somewhere between the late Qing dynasty and the Chinese Civil War. They say it's best to visit it now before it becomes yet another backwater province of China...if you can, of course.
That said, it would be sad if they weren't a rogue nation. There's some nice arcane bits of Chinese culture there. I hear there are legit opium dens, 19th century style, in some rural towns. If the "Republic of China" were integrated with the international community, I bet we wouldn't see such an intriguing land stuck somewhere between the late Qing dynasty and the Chinese Civil War. They say it's best to visit it now before it becomes yet another backwater province of China...if you can, of course.
You could have Chiang Kai sheks kid turn to a reformer and he might be able to turn Taiwan into a half decent economy and a democracy but that is a pretty big strech considering what he did in the 80s and 90s
So, have you watched that movie where the Taiwanese President/Dictator got killed in an interview or played that video game where the villains were supposed to be some sort of resurgent Japanese Empire but got replaced by some uber Taiwan? I think that if Taiwan wasn't a rogue state, we'd find someone else to bash.
Lost Freeway
Banned
Ironically, the ROC is more communist than the PRC these days-just about every important industry is controlled by state corporations.
I would call Taiwan the first neo-fascist state in the world, actually, as the Taiwanese government fulfills most of the criteria of a fascist state.
Insider
Banned
Actually it is easy to make history go such way, because normalcy is... well normal. Taiwan is a logical conclusion of freak accident. First of all, after the war Allies could make Taiwan stay with Japan or become independent state. They instead choose to make it a part of China, even though Chinese treated locals as bad as Japanese. Had the Japan threw a towel earlier, they would more likely be less punished and keep the Taiwan.
Secondly had the Cold War become a degree more tepid, there would be no need to install a highly militaristic state on the isle, propped by USA. Perhaps avoid Vietnam War, or keep reds away from Philippines (but perhaps not by installing fascist dictatorship?). RoC would have to develop their industry, tourism, and so on. They may not be successful but they would have to develop with accordance to real economy. RoC army consumes 25% of their GDP. Thats Nazi Germany levels during the war. Unless they are (and were) fed by aid they would most likely starve their own population, just to keep their military afloat.
Lastly had they weren't allowed to build up nuclear reactors, or otherwise had the financing from US were cut of before they gained WMD's the regime would have no other way than to modernise or become a backwater for ages. Now they are too advanced to ignore, and too poor to actually achieve something on their own.
OOC (The Red Philippines are butterfly effect, but fairly logical)
Secondly had the Cold War become a degree more tepid, there would be no need to install a highly militaristic state on the isle, propped by USA. Perhaps avoid Vietnam War, or keep reds away from Philippines (but perhaps not by installing fascist dictatorship?). RoC would have to develop their industry, tourism, and so on. They may not be successful but they would have to develop with accordance to real economy. RoC army consumes 25% of their GDP. Thats Nazi Germany levels during the war. Unless they are (and were) fed by aid they would most likely starve their own population, just to keep their military afloat.
Lastly had they weren't allowed to build up nuclear reactors, or otherwise had the financing from US were cut of before they gained WMD's the regime would have no other way than to modernise or become a backwater for ages. Now they are too advanced to ignore, and too poor to actually achieve something on their own.
OOC (The Red Philippines are butterfly effect, but fairly logical)
Even though the People's Republic of the Philippines is by now little more than a left-wing democracy with the trappings of communism after the EDSA protests in 2001 led by Joseph Estrada, the lunatics in the "Republic of China" have more missiles pointed at us than any other country except for the People's Republic of China. Also, have you watched the news report that President Steve Bannon has indicated he is open to a state visit to Taiwan? Is it a serious proposal or just him pandering to his base?
The PRP was always a fascist dictatorship, leftist only in name to get support from the USSR before it came clashing down in the 90s and then the EDSA protests in 2001 and you know the rest.
Either way, maybe the best way to stop Taiwan from becoming so crazy is to killed the KMT on the mainland. I do think want happen was a bit logical.
Maybe if the US and RoC was still good allies and RoC was sense, maybe the Kim Family would still be in power, and not be kick out in the 90s and made a Chinese puppet state.
Either way, maybe the best way to stop Taiwan from becoming so crazy is to killed the KMT on the mainland. I do think want happen was a bit logical.
Maybe if the US and RoC was still good allies and RoC was sense, maybe the Kim Family would still be in power, and not be kick out in the 90s and made a Chinese puppet state.
Hey, I thought we weren't supposed to talk politics here. Anyways,
I would start with the United States. After the disastrous consequences of the division of Germany resulted in their abandonment of Europe, they basically gave the USSR free reign over Europe & the world. If they didn't do that, who knows whether they could take the CCCP. Perhaps if they made the Capitalist governments direct competitors with the Soviet bloc, the latter would fall & the PRC would be the rogue state. I know it sounds pretty bad- I myself shudder at the idea of Kim City a rightist fortress.
OOC: I had the USSR still fall in the 90s and the Kim Family kick out of North Korea.
Lost Freeway
Banned
The latter. Taiwan still hates the US for opening up relations with Beijing. If Bannon actually set foot in Taipei, he'd be shot.