Firstly, and this relates to comment from @Shevek23, what do you guys think of the use of Greek Fire in the battle? I used it to make the tale a little more interesting than your standard siege story, and make Zara itself seem even that little bit more special . Thoughts?
Well, perhaps not quite that dramatic! I won't spoil the specifics, but just remember that the Civil War is ongoing and that there are some rebellious Dalmatians that need to be reminded of their true loyalties.
Thanks, that's actually pretty useful! The main gate also looks pretty well fortified, which would explain why Andrew favoured an assault on the port gate (giving me an excuse not to edit the post ).
Exactly that. Zara has always been the key to Dalmatia, pretty much ever since the fall and destruction of Salona. Andrew recognised that by taking Zara, Dalmatia would essentially be forced to recognise his rule as their Duke. That's why Venice was always so eager to get their hands on Zara, because it was the key to Dalmatia, which was in turn the key to the domination of the Adriatic.
You've pretty much hit on the answer yourself here. Remember, Venice was defeated only a few months ago. The Republic is undergoing an economic crisis resulting from the loss of a large proportion of the city's navy, as well as the hiatus in merchant shipping during construction (which suffered further during the war from privateer-esque attacks by Genoese and Pisan rivals). Dandolo is now deeply unpopular among the Venetian ruling classes for his 'recklessness' in attacking Zara and losing. He probably won't be able to raise enough money to reconstruct the fleet, let alone convince the various Councils to agree to a new war so soon.
Furthermore, Andrew wouldn't be willing to ally with Venice for several reasons. Firstly, with the war so much in recent memory, a pro-Venetian position would upset the Dalmatians considerably, pretty much losing him the support he currently has in the League. Secondly, both Andrew and Venice covet Zara for the reasons I stated above. Andrew needs Zara to control Dalmatia properly; but Venice would demand Zara as the price for an alliance. Thirdly, Andrew interpreted the Venetian attack on Dalmatia as an attack on his duchy - remember, the League during the war was an informal pact, not a constitutional reality. At the time his claim to be 'Duke of Dalmatia' was closer to reality. It was a while back in the TL, but the Croatian ban, Martin Hontpázmán, sent Croatian soldier to help garrison Zara - this was with Andrew's assent, who for once was in agreement with his brother. So any idea of alliance was a non-starter TBH.
I am a little concerned that I made Zara appear too vulnerable in the telling of the battle. Zara was the fortress-city of Dalmatia. Very few armies ever took it before the rise of the cannon, because it's peninsular location made a full-blown siege impossible and an assault (as Andrew attempted) almost as difficult. The reason that Venice needed Crusader help IOTL was because they needed a proper land-army with siege engines to compliment their naval power - that way, Zara was totally surrounded on land and sea. The noose was tightened once the Venetians broke the harbour-chain, and Zara soon capitulated.
The difference ITTL was that: (1) Venice lacked a large land army; and (2) with slower and weaker Venetian progress, Zara had time to summon Dalmatian allies to their aid, enabling them a surprise victory at sea that was unfeasible IOTL.
You may have noticed several mentions in the text itself that Andrew hoped to threaten the Zaratins into submission, rather than attempt outright conquest. At first he hoped the mere presence of his army would change their minds; then later he hoped the arrival of siege towers would convince Begna to switch allegiance. The actual assault was a desperate attempt to either seize the city outright or finally compel Begna to parley with him.
I was somewhat concerned that the use of Greek Fire in the battle would be rather unrealistic, but I wanted to avoid the potential boredom of 'Andrew attacked Zara, he couldn't get over the walls, so he left'. As you say, Zara had been a Byzantine city not long before, so the presence of ignis graecus is not implausible. Begna knew of these vials but chose not to use them before the situation was truly desperate, knowing that they could prove decisive in a future battle. TBH, Begna probably didn't need to use them - as mentioned, Zara was truly formidable and it's unlikely that the Croatian successes on the walls and at the Port Gate would translate into outright victory. The point was that he felt threatened enough to use them, thus turning a somewhat 'samey' battle into one with a little more 'pizzazz' .
I briefly considered allowing Zara to have the recipe itself, but I feel that would introduce an almost fantastical element to the narrative that I'd rather avoid. Those were the only three vials of Greek Fire in Zara, and the last recorded use of the weapon in TTL's history (IOTL, the last record of it's use in Europe was made by Anna Komnenos of Byzantium, who wrote of her father, the Emperor Alexios, using the fire against a Pisan fleet. It seems that the recipe was lost to history between then and 1204, as there was no mention of its use against the Crusader's Sack of Constantinople).
This is exactly the case. Like Dandolo and Andrew, Emeric knows that Zara is the key to controlling Dalmatia. I like to think of Zara as the 'lens' through which Hungary can 'project' power over the other Dalmatian cities. This has, as you mentioned, caused some jealously and resentment - case in point, Ragusa and Cattaro.
I can't imagine higher praise, thank you so much! I'm not quite sure it's deserved, but I'm glad you enjoyed the post in any case .
So what the next step for Zara here?
Eliminate the magyar of course
Well, perhaps not quite that dramatic! I won't spoil the specifics, but just remember that the Civil War is ongoing and that there are some rebellious Dalmatians that need to be reminded of their true loyalties.
I have a photo I took at the museum some time ago showing a model of medieval Zara where you can kinda see the main gate (and some of the Port gates that we discussed earlier). Unfortunately the model represents the period after this timeline (14th century I believe) so you have some Venetian add-ons to the old fortification (the Castello bastion that has a trench between itself and the city, and the Citadela in the right corner of the city) but from what I know most of the northern wall and the fortifications toward the mainland (including the main gate) are more or less the same.
https://ibb.co/etKfue
Thanks, that's actually pretty useful! The main gate also looks pretty well fortified, which would explain why Andrew favoured an assault on the port gate (giving me an excuse not to edit the post ).
Andrew taking Zara would not exactly be a sudden death blow to Emeric's cause but it would hurt him a lot.
With the cities that more naturally aligned with him and Zara in his power, he surely could dominate the rest of the League or most of it anyway, enough to seriously impair the benefit their being left in peace might bring Emeric.
Exactly that. Zara has always been the key to Dalmatia, pretty much ever since the fall and destruction of Salona. Andrew recognised that by taking Zara, Dalmatia would essentially be forced to recognise his rule as their Duke. That's why Venice was always so eager to get their hands on Zara, because it was the key to Dalmatia, which was in turn the key to the domination of the Adriatic.
I was mainly worried the Venetians might pull something in this crisis when Dalmatia is somewhat cut off from the full backing Emeric could give if there weren't a civil war going on but now I suppose that actually the main thing protecting Dalmatia from Venice is Dalmatia.
As I said I was mainly worried what the Venetians might do, and perhaps some shred of my calculations survives in the fact Andrew did not seek to make common cause with Venice, calling on Venetian help to attack by sea in coordination with his attack by land.
It did occur to me maybe Andrew would have coordinated with Venice and thus won, but it was a matter of timing and opportunity--it would appear the time scale of Emeric being tied down and distracted on the external borders was quite short, a matter of weeks or even days, and Andrew's opportunity was limited. So there just wasn't time to coordinate some grand strategic alliance back and forth across the Adriatic? Surely the strategic, long game interest Andrew shares with Emeric in avoiding losing control of any of the shore to some overseas power has some weight still (not necessarily if Andrew is on his way down and knows it, he might do anything then just to spite his brother, but by then, what has he got to offer the Venetians to attract them in?)
You've pretty much hit on the answer yourself here. Remember, Venice was defeated only a few months ago. The Republic is undergoing an economic crisis resulting from the loss of a large proportion of the city's navy, as well as the hiatus in merchant shipping during construction (which suffered further during the war from privateer-esque attacks by Genoese and Pisan rivals). Dandolo is now deeply unpopular among the Venetian ruling classes for his 'recklessness' in attacking Zara and losing. He probably won't be able to raise enough money to reconstruct the fleet, let alone convince the various Councils to agree to a new war so soon.
Furthermore, Andrew wouldn't be willing to ally with Venice for several reasons. Firstly, with the war so much in recent memory, a pro-Venetian position would upset the Dalmatians considerably, pretty much losing him the support he currently has in the League. Secondly, both Andrew and Venice covet Zara for the reasons I stated above. Andrew needs Zara to control Dalmatia properly; but Venice would demand Zara as the price for an alliance. Thirdly, Andrew interpreted the Venetian attack on Dalmatia as an attack on his duchy - remember, the League during the war was an informal pact, not a constitutional reality. At the time his claim to be 'Duke of Dalmatia' was closer to reality. It was a while back in the TL, but the Croatian ban, Martin Hontpázmán, sent Croatian soldier to help garrison Zara - this was with Andrew's assent, who for once was in agreement with his brother. So any idea of alliance was a non-starter TBH.
Which is exactly where I was blindsided, that and supposing Zara was more invulnerable that I should have
So, somehow I got into my head that Zara was downright impregnible, forgetting of course that it is just a handful of years down the line from its OTL breaching and sack. So I figured neither Andrew nor Emeric would dare divert too much to trying to settle its status by sheer force.
I am a little concerned that I made Zara appear too vulnerable in the telling of the battle. Zara was the fortress-city of Dalmatia. Very few armies ever took it before the rise of the cannon, because it's peninsular location made a full-blown siege impossible and an assault (as Andrew attempted) almost as difficult. The reason that Venice needed Crusader help IOTL was because they needed a proper land-army with siege engines to compliment their naval power - that way, Zara was totally surrounded on land and sea. The noose was tightened once the Venetians broke the harbour-chain, and Zara soon capitulated.
The difference ITTL was that: (1) Venice lacked a large land army; and (2) with slower and weaker Venetian progress, Zara had time to summon Dalmatian allies to their aid, enabling them a surprise victory at sea that was unfeasible IOTL.
You may have noticed several mentions in the text itself that Andrew hoped to threaten the Zaratins into submission, rather than attempt outright conquest. At first he hoped the mere presence of his army would change their minds; then later he hoped the arrival of siege towers would convince Begna to switch allegiance. The actual assault was a desperate attempt to either seize the city outright or finally compel Begna to parley with him.
Zara having survived Andrew's best shot, albeit by a rather melodramatic quasi-miracle rather than a boring old "you fool, Zara is impregnible!" manner I thought it would, will not be the fence-sitter I thought it would
The Hail Mary Pass of having on hand some small samples of Greek Fire makes a little sense in Zara being a former Byzantine outpost with some formal special relationship still on the books IIRC (another factor perhaps in Venice aiming Villardouin et al at the city?) I do have to wonder, if the city had these assets in hand, why they were not employed earlier when the defenses had been less breached, to repel the invaders before they had gotten so far? Who was it who knew of these vials and did not think to offer them up earlier? Was there some sealed box with a sworn-to admonition written on it saying to break the seals only after all else had failed or what? but it surely does make a fun story.
If you dared, I think an even cooler, but sadly wankish, version would be if there were persons, Byzantine envoys or part of their embassy, on hand who did know the full secret of the recipe for the stuff, who waited until they could see the city was in dire straits, and then came forward offering to manufacture some for the good of their patron state's interest--the difference being that this person somehow transmits the secret to Zaratines who conserve it, so that Zara and by extension as the League consolidates Dalmatia retains it and the OTL lost formula is known to modern science in the ATL.
I was somewhat concerned that the use of Greek Fire in the battle would be rather unrealistic, but I wanted to avoid the potential boredom of 'Andrew attacked Zara, he couldn't get over the walls, so he left'. As you say, Zara had been a Byzantine city not long before, so the presence of ignis graecus is not implausible. Begna knew of these vials but chose not to use them before the situation was truly desperate, knowing that they could prove decisive in a future battle. TBH, Begna probably didn't need to use them - as mentioned, Zara was truly formidable and it's unlikely that the Croatian successes on the walls and at the Port Gate would translate into outright victory. The point was that he felt threatened enough to use them, thus turning a somewhat 'samey' battle into one with a little more 'pizzazz' .
I briefly considered allowing Zara to have the recipe itself, but I feel that would introduce an almost fantastical element to the narrative that I'd rather avoid. Those were the only three vials of Greek Fire in Zara, and the last recorded use of the weapon in TTL's history (IOTL, the last record of it's use in Europe was made by Anna Komnenos of Byzantium, who wrote of her father, the Emperor Alexios, using the fire against a Pisan fleet. It seems that the recipe was lost to history between then and 1204, as there was no mention of its use against the Crusader's Sack of Constantinople).
But it was specifically Zara's own interests you were at pains to tell us Emeric favored and augmented, not those of each and every League city, and within the League that was surely a cause of jealousy, not just of the petty sort but concern Zara's status as queen city of Dalmatia and dominating each of the others was being cemented by Emeric's favor.
This is exactly the case. Like Dandolo and Andrew, Emeric knows that Zara is the key to controlling Dalmatia. I like to think of Zara as the 'lens' through which Hungary can 'project' power over the other Dalmatian cities. This has, as you mentioned, caused some jealously and resentment - case in point, Ragusa and Cattaro.
Finally...I enjoyed the drama of the description of the near-fall of Zara, it reminded me strongly of Tolkien's descriptions of the defences of both Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith in The Two Towers and Return of the King respectively.
I can't imagine higher praise, thank you so much! I'm not quite sure it's deserved, but I'm glad you enjoyed the post in any case .
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