Could the Chinese have colonized the Americas and Africa before Europe?
- Thread starter Malone
- Start date
More ideology than will. The Chinese viewed themselves as the Middle Kingdom, the center of the world surrounded by backwards and lesser nations. Why conquer or colonize distant and poor regions when you were in the best possible place and had enough resources to trade for anything else you might want?
Vassalization/tribute was almost always the Chinese modus operandi in distant expansion. That was the motivation behind Zheng He, for example.
Vassalization/tribute was almost always the Chinese modus operandi in distant expansion. That was the motivation behind Zheng He, for example.
Let’s also remember that the American (continental) Western Coasts aren’t exactly prime spot for colonization: in North America, the Sierras, Rockies and Deserts...in South America, the Andes and Atacama.
On terms of geography, places as British Columbia, the US West Coast and Chile are quite isolated from the rest of the continent until our days...don’t imagine the Chinese (the Middle Kingdom) making too much of an effort in such distant and challenging coasts...
On terms of geography, places as British Columbia, the US West Coast and Chile are quite isolated from the rest of the continent until our days...don’t imagine the Chinese (the Middle Kingdom) making too much of an effort in such distant and challenging coasts...
I think the North American West Coast is comparatively rich in resources as the Northeast for example.
However what if the Chinese discovered gold in California? In OTL thousands of poor Chinese peasants ventured out to California during the 1849 Gold Rush.
On terms of resources yes, but much of such resources would only be useful by OTL late 18th Century, with the start of the Industrials Revolution...in an 14 or 15th colonization, fertile land is much more valuable and such spaces are severely limited at the West Coast
As of the Californian gold, could be an attraction but you need the 18-19th Century logistical tech to attract a major migration to the Americas...gold and silver were found by the Spanish and Portuguese by the 16 - 17th but migration was much more subtle, with major of the work performed by native or African slaves
Not saying that the Chinese would simply disregard the Americas, but colonization would be much slower and discreet than OTL (via the Atlantic shores)
The chance a naval China could reach the Americas, let alone colonize them before anyone else, is very slight. The prevailing winds are against it in the Age of Sail. The winds mostly blow eastwards towards Asia, rather than westwards towards America, in the areas of the Pacific Ocean China had access to. That makes going from Asia to America a lot more difficult (in the Age of Sail) than going from Europe to America was, though the Atlantic waters off the coasts of Britain and France also had eastward winds. The best winds to get to the Americas were the ones heading to the Caribbean from the Canaries, hence why the Spanish were the first Europeans to get there (after conquering the Canaries) and went to the Caribbean and Mesoamerica first. The Portuguese also had Madeira and Cape Verde, which were also both well-placed for travel to the Americas. Later technology makes the prevailing winds less of an issue, and steamships eliminate the problem, but by the time that technology is developed the colonial game is already well underway and said technology probably would have developed a lot slower without colonization requiring long travel routes across the Atlantic ocean.
As for Africa, they could get Madagascar and the eastern coast. Indonesia and Oceania would be much better targets for a colonial naval China, and would also be helpful in colonizing Africa if that path was chosen, and so would be the initial Chinese colonies. The local Overseas Chinese communities in the area make it even easier. I also expect Indochina would be targeted, but I'm not sure how well that would go.
See these maps from Wikipedia for reference:
Prevailing Winds of the World
The Ainu, Evens, Nivkhs, and Koryaks have the best placement in Asia to colonize the Americas, but don't have the resources. China has the resources, but the prevailing winds are against them. Maybe Japan could, but I would not bet on it, since the winds there aren't that much better. Would definitely require an earlier Hokkaido.
As for Africa, they could get Madagascar and the eastern coast. Indonesia and Oceania would be much better targets for a colonial naval China, and would also be helpful in colonizing Africa if that path was chosen, and so would be the initial Chinese colonies. The local Overseas Chinese communities in the area make it even easier. I also expect Indochina would be targeted, but I'm not sure how well that would go.
See these maps from Wikipedia for reference:
Prevailing Winds of the World
The Ainu, Evens, Nivkhs, and Koryaks have the best placement in Asia to colonize the Americas, but don't have the resources. China has the resources, but the prevailing winds are against them. Maybe Japan could, but I would not bet on it, since the winds there aren't that much better. Would definitely require an earlier Hokkaido.
Last edited:
Could they? Sure, they had skilled sailors, a large surplus population, and the humble junk was a very seaworthy vessel.
Would they? No, and it's not just down to will/ideology/bureaucracy. If they did want to expand into sparsely populated wilderness they need look no further than their neighbours. In fact that's exactly what they did, the Qing were an expansionary power for the first 150 years of their reign, their campaigns brought much of what we now consider to be China into the empire.
Eyeballing the map, I saw Oceania and Australia as the obvious targets in the medium term, with the Clipper Route making South America accessible from Australia in the longer term once Australian colonies are established enough to support expeditions of their own.
While the Lord Lieutenant makes good points, I still think that Africa and the Americas were always more likely targets for Chines colonization efforts than Europe. The same wind patterns would have made it difficult for the Chinese to reach Europe too, and Europe is further away and has less of what the Chinese want. They could go overland, but through alot of steppe and desert, so I really think the Chinese would turn to Europe only after they had overrun the rest of the world.
Very good point with a Chinese Australia using the Clipper route. Head east to South America through southern winds (the Roaring Forties, ideally), head west to home through the winds off Peru. Almost a perfect inverted mirror of the Spanish heading west through the Canaries to Caribbean route and then home through the winds off Florida. Chinese Chile and perhaps Patagonia would be very likely in that case, and Peru would be a key strategic objective.
Have China develop a more maritime-based merchantile economy so they have an active presence on the Indian Ocean, particularly on the East African coast.
Eventually, the Chinese cross the Cape for more direct contact with West Africa and Europe (maybe the Silk Road gets bad) and then stumbles in the Brazilian coast.
Eventually, the Chinese cross the Cape for more direct contact with West Africa and Europe (maybe the Silk Road gets bad) and then stumbles in the Brazilian coast.
If the Mapuche repelled the Spanish, Argentines, and Chileans until the mid-late 19th century, then they can probably keep the Chinese out of Patagonia. Chile though, would be pretty good. It gives some nice bases for trading with the Andean states (silver and gold!), and also produces a substanial amount of silver in its own right.
How about the Russian Far East? There’s gold in Kolyma, even if the port is ice-locked half the year. Could perhaps a native extraction of gold trigger Chinese interest in the region?
If there was further technological and industrial growth under a surviving Song dynasty I could see it, though even then I don't think it would be inevitable. In Africa the Chinese would have the same problem with local diseases and resistance that the Europeans did, so they would probably stick to trading posts along the coast just like the Europeans did.
If the Mongol invasion is slower, I could imagine the Song from their last island and coastal holdouts sending expeditions Eastward in a desperate search for allies or refuge, and maybe even a Romantic final flight of the last Song Emperor to the New Lands in the East as the Mongol Hordes are burning Hainan to the ground. Unlikely but could make a cool story especially if the Ming send *Zheng He East to find out what happened to the lost colony...
If the Mongol invasion is slower, I could imagine the Song from their last island and coastal holdouts sending expeditions Eastward in a desperate search for allies or refuge, and maybe even a Romantic final flight of the last Song Emperor to the New Lands in the East as the Mongol Hordes are burning Hainan to the ground. Unlikely but could make a cool story especially if the Ming send *Zheng He East to find out what happened to the lost colony...
It wasn't the Song, but there was a TL here where Tungning/Southern Ming flee to California due to the Qing. So that's technically colonising (a part of) the Americas before Europeans given that Spain had no real presence in California at the time.