Interesting it would allow the filmmakers the freedom, to explore the subject matter without studio interference. If I was the film director I don't know how I would approach THE SCENE of what happened to Samantha Gailey I mean on one hand you don't want to sugar code what happened and what she went through and what happened but you also don't want to be graphic. It's like you need to find a good balance and I don't know how to do that. Besides I know how I'd want the movie to pretty much be structured.
Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
First I don't think people would defend him as much as they just don't want to remember. With the SO Have I movement gaining steam earlier ITTL then IOTL I think it won't be that they'll be defending Polanski more as it'll be he represents a period of Hollywood history that the studios don't want to confront and don't want to remember. I think it'll be very hard for Polanski apologists to speak because 1 he was actually convicted ITTL. 2 Since he doesn't go on to make other films he doesn't make friendships with other actors especially of the younger brody so I doubt that you wil have Adrian Brody signing a petition in support of him ITTL. Like I said above it'll be more of them, Actors, Studios, Directors, and Columnists not wanting to remember Polanski or that period of Hollywood History.
Sure I'll post what I was thinking about the structure.
LordYam
Banned
I think that during the trial or buildup there might be a lot of journalists and actors and directors trying to play it down or accuse the victim of lying; after Marilyn and Shirley speak out things begin to change, and if Polanski's lawyers are particularly slimy in how they attack Geimer it only makes people more angry (who knows, maybe THIS trial is one of the first where there are cameras).
Polanski's conviction utterly shocks those who think he's guilty, and those who supported themselves either try to distance themselves or pretend it never happened.
When the movie comes out EVERYTHING they did (maybe there's a scene of Martin Scorsese saying that Roman is being treated unfairly, or a columnist saying she could be lying to slander a great artist) is shown. Those same people are openly embarrassed, though a few do make genuine apologies, admitting that they wanted to believe that a great artist couldn't do something like that. Some of the initial apologists also get outed later (sorta like Harvey)
I think that instead of a book Shirley Temple writes an op-ed in a major paper, and goes into detail about Arthur Freed, David Selznik, and the other perverts, saying "Based on that, I can absolutely believe Ms. Geimer when she said that Mr. Polanski raped her. If anything, there are probably countless other predators in Hollywood raping and abusing women."
Polanski's conviction utterly shocks those who think he's guilty, and those who supported themselves either try to distance themselves or pretend it never happened.
When the movie comes out EVERYTHING they did (maybe there's a scene of Martin Scorsese saying that Roman is being treated unfairly, or a columnist saying she could be lying to slander a great artist) is shown. Those same people are openly embarrassed, though a few do make genuine apologies, admitting that they wanted to believe that a great artist couldn't do something like that. Some of the initial apologists also get outed later (sorta like Harvey)
I think that instead of a book Shirley Temple writes an op-ed in a major paper, and goes into detail about Arthur Freed, David Selznik, and the other perverts, saying "Based on that, I can absolutely believe Ms. Geimer when she said that Mr. Polanski raped her. If anything, there are probably countless other predators in Hollywood raping and abusing women."
Warning: This post deals with talks of SA. Do not read if you are triggered by this
For the movie here's how I was picturing for the structure. Using what we learned in the Polanski Chapter:
Beginning shows Samatha Geimer in the aftermath of her assault. She returns home and tells her mother.
The Police go and arrest Polanski (Despite him trying to get them to shrug off the accusation) from there we see him get processed, fingerprinted, etc.
Then we get our first look at the prosecuting team. The District attorney, John Van de Kamp assigns the case to two prosecutors I imagine a man and a woman.
I imagine the man is a little skeptical of the case (It's not that he doesn't believe Geimer, it's that he knows how these cases usually go) whereas the woman is full on ready to take this on.
They meet with Geimer, her parents and her attorney where she tells them the whole story. The man is still a little skeptical but he's not a dick about it and the woman fully supports her.
They have an arraignment for Polanski where the charges are laid out in full terms. He pleads not guilty. Later on his attorneys and himself meet with the prosecutors and the district attorney where they offered them a deal. Polanski will plead down to lesser charges, "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse with a minor." When Polanski and his lawyers leave, they discuss it. Both de Kamp and the man agree they should consider it. The woman is hesistant and says they should talk this over with Geimer and her parents, also attorney.
As you can imagine, Geimer, her parents, and her attorneys are not happy when they are told. This is what I would consider one of the most important scenes in the movie because Geimer says she will not stay silent, she will speak up. Apart of that is I imagine that Geimer she looks straight at the man Prosecutor and asks him point blank "Do you believe me?" He's somewhat caught offguard by the question and takes a moment to answer "Yes." from then on Geimer says she wants to go public which makes the prosecutors and her attornets nervous, knowing what usually happens to someone (Particualrly woman) who accuse high profile and powerful of something awful of this magnitude. She basically says "I know the risks, but I don't care."
Then Samantha does her interview with the LA times. I imagine a monologue of people getting their papers and seeing the interview. Especially Jack Nicholson and Anjelica Houston who at this point are like "We're screwed." Also Marilyn Monroe and Shirley Temple Black.
I don't really know what I picture for this part, but I imagine a scene where the toll of all of this is coming down on Samantha and her parents. Especially her mother who is just you have to imagine full of guilt for introducing her daughet to Polanski in the first place.
Then of course it goes on to show some people coming to Polanksi's defense. Like LordYam said, Martin Scorsese and all these misguided people who want to believe Polanski is innocent but he's not and Polanski and his slimy lawyers stage attacks on Geimer and Polanski the arrogant accused, gives the infamous interview where he pretty much says, "Everyone wants to f little girls."
This is so long so I'll make a second part but this is how I would structure the first part of the film
For the movie here's how I was picturing for the structure. Using what we learned in the Polanski Chapter:
Beginning shows Samatha Geimer in the aftermath of her assault. She returns home and tells her mother.
The Police go and arrest Polanski (Despite him trying to get them to shrug off the accusation) from there we see him get processed, fingerprinted, etc.
Then we get our first look at the prosecuting team. The District attorney, John Van de Kamp assigns the case to two prosecutors I imagine a man and a woman.
I imagine the man is a little skeptical of the case (It's not that he doesn't believe Geimer, it's that he knows how these cases usually go) whereas the woman is full on ready to take this on.
They meet with Geimer, her parents and her attorney where she tells them the whole story. The man is still a little skeptical but he's not a dick about it and the woman fully supports her.
They have an arraignment for Polanski where the charges are laid out in full terms. He pleads not guilty. Later on his attorneys and himself meet with the prosecutors and the district attorney where they offered them a deal. Polanski will plead down to lesser charges, "Unlawful Sexual Intercourse with a minor." When Polanski and his lawyers leave, they discuss it. Both de Kamp and the man agree they should consider it. The woman is hesistant and says they should talk this over with Geimer and her parents, also attorney.
As you can imagine, Geimer, her parents, and her attorneys are not happy when they are told. This is what I would consider one of the most important scenes in the movie because Geimer says she will not stay silent, she will speak up. Apart of that is I imagine that Geimer she looks straight at the man Prosecutor and asks him point blank "Do you believe me?" He's somewhat caught offguard by the question and takes a moment to answer "Yes." from then on Geimer says she wants to go public which makes the prosecutors and her attornets nervous, knowing what usually happens to someone (Particualrly woman) who accuse high profile and powerful of something awful of this magnitude. She basically says "I know the risks, but I don't care."
Then Samantha does her interview with the LA times. I imagine a monologue of people getting their papers and seeing the interview. Especially Jack Nicholson and Anjelica Houston who at this point are like "We're screwed." Also Marilyn Monroe and Shirley Temple Black.
I don't really know what I picture for this part, but I imagine a scene where the toll of all of this is coming down on Samantha and her parents. Especially her mother who is just you have to imagine full of guilt for introducing her daughet to Polanski in the first place.
Then of course it goes on to show some people coming to Polanksi's defense. Like LordYam said, Martin Scorsese and all these misguided people who want to believe Polanski is innocent but he's not and Polanski and his slimy lawyers stage attacks on Geimer and Polanski the arrogant accused, gives the infamous interview where he pretty much says, "Everyone wants to f little girls."
This is so long so I'll make a second part but this is how I would structure the first part of the film
Second part:
After Polanski gives that interview, I see a scene where the man and the woman prosecutor team met with de Kamp in his office. He shows them the interview and they are just appalled by it. "Who does this man think he is?" de Kamp asks. Neither the Man or the Woman know what to say. de Kamp pretty much tells them "Whatever you need to do, you make sure this guy goes to prison.
From there on we are introduced to Marilyn Monroe into the story. She comes to the Gailey household. Has a talk with Samantha and her parents. Then she makes a very public statement in support of Gailey. Next she publish her own op-ed with her own history and story which shocks people of course, and she also pays for the Gailey's legal fees.
Next I would show Shirley Temple Black coming out and supporting Gailey and her book, also her own op-ed.
From then on the Trial begins. From the opening statement it shows that Polanski is still confident in an aquittal. The prosecutors pull no punches. They put Nicholson and Huston on the stand and they admit that they left Gailey alone with Polanski and it comes out that Huston had come back and she tried to get Polanski to open the door and she gave up when he didn't. I imagine her sending an apologeitic to Gailey. Polanski takes the stand I imagine and he just gets eviscerated by the prosecution, they confront him over the interview, over the fact that he seems to think it's okay to sleep with 13 year old girls even if he didn't rape them. It's a disater to say the least for Polanski and his slimy lawyers. Then sometime after that Gailey takes the stand where she repeats her story. This would be the most tricky part because I would imagine you would need to show a flashback to it but not be too graphic. Afterwards she gets cross-examined and handles herself well against Polanski's lawyers. There's a moment I imagine where she says to his Lawyer, "He's taken my innocence but he will not take my dignity."
With that closing arguments happen and The woman prosecutor gives the closing argument for the prosecution. Sometime aftet that Polanski is found guilty and I imagien the ending of the movie when Samantha along with her family, Marilyn, go outside and talk with the press. Then closing titles show what Polanski's penalty and where the prosecuting teams and Gailey are doing today.
After Polanski gives that interview, I see a scene where the man and the woman prosecutor team met with de Kamp in his office. He shows them the interview and they are just appalled by it. "Who does this man think he is?" de Kamp asks. Neither the Man or the Woman know what to say. de Kamp pretty much tells them "Whatever you need to do, you make sure this guy goes to prison.
From there on we are introduced to Marilyn Monroe into the story. She comes to the Gailey household. Has a talk with Samantha and her parents. Then she makes a very public statement in support of Gailey. Next she publish her own op-ed with her own history and story which shocks people of course, and she also pays for the Gailey's legal fees.
Next I would show Shirley Temple Black coming out and supporting Gailey and her book, also her own op-ed.
From then on the Trial begins. From the opening statement it shows that Polanski is still confident in an aquittal. The prosecutors pull no punches. They put Nicholson and Huston on the stand and they admit that they left Gailey alone with Polanski and it comes out that Huston had come back and she tried to get Polanski to open the door and she gave up when he didn't. I imagine her sending an apologeitic to Gailey. Polanski takes the stand I imagine and he just gets eviscerated by the prosecution, they confront him over the interview, over the fact that he seems to think it's okay to sleep with 13 year old girls even if he didn't rape them. It's a disater to say the least for Polanski and his slimy lawyers. Then sometime after that Gailey takes the stand where she repeats her story. This would be the most tricky part because I would imagine you would need to show a flashback to it but not be too graphic. Afterwards she gets cross-examined and handles herself well against Polanski's lawyers. There's a moment I imagine where she says to his Lawyer, "He's taken my innocence but he will not take my dignity."
With that closing arguments happen and The woman prosecutor gives the closing argument for the prosecution. Sometime aftet that Polanski is found guilty and I imagien the ending of the movie when Samantha along with her family, Marilyn, go outside and talk with the press. Then closing titles show what Polanski's penalty and where the prosecuting teams and Gailey are doing today.
Thank you so much. That means a lot.
LordYam
Banned
I'm thinking Polanski's reaction to the verdict should be shock and anger; he's unable to conceive this is happening to him. He doesn't rant and scream like a cliche but it's clear that he's bewildered. In Unbelievable the rapist is punished with 300 years in prison.......and his reaction is pure shock. I think something similar happens with Roman. He's so entitled that he literally can't comprehend that he's lost and everything is crashing down around him.
Oh yeah definitely. I can imagine him standing facing the jury not with smile but with a small smirk and when the first charge reads guilty he immediately loses that smirk and as the guilty verdicts continued to come his moth just drops open and he absolutely stands there in shock. He doesn't scream, lose his cole or anything. He just stands frozen. I also imagine that after he is cuffed and being taken away he shares a glance with Gailey who just stares right back at him unafraid.
Hey @President_Lincoln this question just came to me, what happened to Daniel Ellsberg since he didn't need to leak the Pentagon Papers ITTL?
LordYam
Banned
The movie about the Polanski case should be combined into its own post, albeit maybe fleshed out later (i.e. the cast list is ). It's possible the victim might go first; it would be a very tense moment, but she holds her own. Polanski's cross examination by contrast goes somewhat poorly (it's not a complete disaster but Polanski comes off as callous and unfeeling)
Yeah I don't know what the rule is for who testifies first in a case like that. Anybody who's studying law or is a Lawyer your welcome to pitch in. In regards to the cast, I would want the movie to have some stars in it. I don't know how to being an independent it would be paid for but in order to get audiences in the theatre to watch this movie on this particular subject matter you would need some pretty heavy names attached to it.
Absolutely agree. This is critical. I do think that this is something that RFK will try to address in his time in office.
This is possible. However I don't think it's entirely likely. As someone who works as a public school teacher IRL, I feel like this would be a really hard sell to teachers unions and the like. That said I am willing to have an open mind about it?
So long as charter schools do not take away funding or attention from the public school system, then I think that they can be a useful alternative for students. I also agree that we definitely need more investment in trade and vocational schools! In general, I hope that this timeline sees more respect for workers of all different "collars". I feel like labor solidarity will be more of a thing here.
Barefoot Sanders, who has since been succeeded by John Tower.
Agreed!
Ellsberg is currently working as a high-ranking staffer at the Pentagon, where he is helping craft the nation's defense strategy, especially on nuclear policy.
I don't want to spoil too much here. But I will reveal this: yes, the IBM PC (or something very much like it) is going to be released in 1981 as per OTL. Xerox and Microsoft will both be big names in the PC industry here.
Nice I'm glad Ellsberg is in a position where he can do stuff and I see your point in year round school being a hard sell to teachers and unions.
My gut tells me RFK is going to be replaced by a Kennedy family friend or maybe someone like John Lindsay.
LordYam
Banned
I'm not sure but usually the prosecution witnesses go first (at least I think so).
Gailey is cross examined first, and while she quivers, she does largely hold her own. With the flashback scene having come first, the audience is invested in Polanski going down after hearing his slimy recollection of what happened. He doesn't have a villainous breakdown, but he is tripped up in a few places.
The Verdict is the climactic moment. There's catharsis when the verdict is guilty and Polanski is sentenced.
Yeah that I can imagine a packed theatre just exploding after the verdict comes in. I will say this the actress who plays Gailey (I would cast an uknown actress to play her) would really need to bring her A game for that scene. It's that type of moment that gets actors and actresses academy award nominations. What route do you think you would go towards with the flashback scene? Like how graphic do you think you would make it?