Are STOL (short take off and landing) aeroplanes possible with 1900s and 1910s tech ?

To explain what I mean by the question in the title, I'm curious whether good quality and dependable aeroplanes from the 1900s and 1910s (regardless of size or type) were capable of STOL takeoffs and STOL landings. I'm particularly curious about small aeroplanes, such as very early bushplanes, early sportsplanes and recreational planes, or early scoutplanes and fighters ? It's clear to me that an early big plane like Sikorsky's Grand or the various WWI bombers would be rather unlikely to handle any takeoff or landing without a fairly long runway, of adequate length. But what about the smaller planes I mention in the preceding sentence ? Do they have a chance to be at least partly capable of STOL manoeuvres ?

One of the more extreme examples of a modern STOL bushplane is the Swiss-designed Pilatus PC-6 Porter, in production since the mid 20th century. It's not been called "a helicopter with wings" for nothing. Here's a sample STOL takeoff and a sample STOL landing. of a PC-6 Porter. Certainly impressive. Could any plane from the 1900s, 1910s or even the 1920s handle such takeoffs and landings ?

Would similar performances be at all possible with 1900s and 1910s monoplanes, biplanes and triplanes ? Were there notable exceptions or were there none ? Is there some technological or material issue that could cause a stumbling block for any short take offs and short landings by these planes ? Is it an issue concerning the nature of control surfaces on the wings, or the shape of the fuselage, or other lift-influencing factors ?

Thanks for sharing any feedback on the subject. I need it for a story with very early 20th century style aviation where period tech planes might need to land on short runways high in the mountains, and then take off. Even within a "stranded in the mountains, attempts a risky takeoff" context. Could a 1910s bushplane attempt an STOL takeoff in such an environment ?
 
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CalBear

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WW I aircraft were all STOL, especially early in the war. All had enormous lift to compensate for low engine power.
 

Driftless

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Given the OP and CalBear's comment, were there plausible STOL technology developments possible to achieve greater payloads with the limited engine power available in that pre-WWI time frame? Engine technology went from hand built one-offs in the "aughts" to anemic rotarys and inlines in the early '10s, to the start of useful power by 1918. You still couldn't get much weight off the ground and lengthy paved runways were a rarity.
 
I was curious because I've often had the impression that pre-1920s small aeroplanes still needed slightly longer runways than modern STOLs.


Here's a replica of a Fokker D. VIII taking off at the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome aviation museum. Fairly STOL-like takeoff.


On the other hand, an early monoplane like this Etrich Taube replica seems to need a fair bit of an airfield runway for a takeoff.

I suppose a cantilever-winged plane or sesquiplane would be slightly more STOL capable ?

Given the OP and CalBear's comment, were there plausible STOL technology developments possible to achieve greater payloads with the limited engine power available in that pre-WWI time frame? Engine technology went from hand built one-offs in the "aughts" to anemic rotarys and inlines in the early '10s, to the start of useful power by 1918. You still couldn't get much weight off the ground and lengthy paved runways were a rarity.

An interesting question, though I don't have much of an idea on how to increase the weight-bearing capability of the period's aircraft.
 
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I was curious because I've often had the impression that pre-1920s small aeroplans still needed slightly longer runways than modern STOLs..
Look at early naval aviation - they didn't need catapults to get off the ground ship in short distances.
 
If you wanted to build a very early aircraft that was optimised for STOL beyond its predecessors you could also do that. Our forefathers were unaware of flaps and slats and boundary layer tricks, but they knew how to mount a really big wing to a really light fuselage and that should do most of the job for you.
 
If you wanted to build a very early aircraft that was optimised for STOL beyond its predecessors you could also do that. Our forefathers were unaware of flaps and slats and boundary layer tricks, but they knew how to mount a really big wing to a really light fuselage and that should do most of the job for you.

And then the other solution. More wings!
 
And then the other solution. More wings!
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Driftless

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Look at early naval aviation - they didn't need catapults to get off the ground ship in short distances.
That was also considerably helped by turning the carrier into the wind, plus the speed of the carrier itself. I don't know the proper term, but wind-across-the-deck was a significant help to achieving sufficient lift.
 

marathag

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Given the OP and CalBear's comment, were there plausible STOL technology developments possible to achieve greater payloads with the limited engine power available in that pre-WWI time frame? Engine technology went from hand built one-offs in the "aughts" to anemic rotarys and inlines in the early '10s, to the start of useful power by 1918. You still couldn't get much weight off the ground and lengthy paved runways were a rarity.
Part of the problem is limited engine power, and those engine somewhat heavy for the power provided,, and all had fixed pitch prop meant you could have decent power at low speed, or high speed, not both.
Next, slower speeds mean you need larger control surfaces to maintain control, and most WWI era aircraft were deficient, even with two or even three wings.
no modern lift and control devices, like slats, slots or even flaps.
The simplest way to STOL with the tech available, are with the Autogyro with the tilting hub done by Cierva in the early '20s
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The simplest way to STOL with the tech available, are with the Autogyro with the tilting hub done by Cierva in the early '20s

You have a good point with autogyros.

I actually have them in the setting, though as a rather rare new aviation technology, so STOL-gyros are not out of the question.

relevant to this

How is that particularly relevant ? That's a 1930s-1940 monococque. Very different airframe to aeroplanes from earlier in the century.
 
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In this video you can see a Sopwith Camel taking off and land at an airshow in New Zealand. I'd say that is STOL

 
In this video you can see a Sopwith Camel taking off and land at an airshow in New Zealand. I'd say that is STOL

Quite STOL-ish. :)

Also, note my videos on the D.VIII and the Taube in an earlier post above. :) Length of runway seems to vary depending on the particular model.
 
Quite STOL-ish. :)

Also, note my videos on the D.VIII and the Taube in an earlier post above. :) Length of runway seems to vary depending on the particular model.
They're monoplanes, the Sopwith Camel is a biplane, which I presume generates more lift, that could explain it.

Your question was if it was possible for 1900s or 1910s planes to do STOL maneuvres. The Sopwith Camel proves that it was (judging the videos, I'd say it needs a shorter runway than the Pilatus).

At 4:20 you can see Von Richthofen taking in his Dr. 1. That's pretty short too. He's off the ground in about 5 seconds. If the clip is played at the right interval of course (which can be in doubt with old movies).
 
They're monoplanes, the Sopwith Camel is a biplane, which I presume generates more lift, that could explain it. Your question was if it was possible for 1900s or 1910s planes to do STOL maneuvres. The Sopwith Camel proves that it was (judging the videos, I'd say it needs a shorter runway than the Pilatus).
Looking at both the D.VIII and Camel replicas, I'd say they're about even.

The Taube seems to take a bit longer to take off, maybe in part because it's single wing plane is set lower than the wings of the other two.

At 4:20 you can see Von Richthofen taking in his Dr. 1. That's pretty short too. He's off the ground in about 5 seconds. If the clip is played at the right interval of course (which can be in doubt with old movies).
Certainly, it's one thing to keep in mind when observing this old footage from hand-cranked cameras.
 
That was also considerably helped by turning the carrier into the wind, plus the speed of the carrier itself. I don't know the proper term, but wind-across-the-deck was a significant help to achieving sufficient lift.
I think he's referring to the earliest attempts at launching aircraft from ships ( IE pre carriers or even pre catapults for float planes on surface warships). The earliest attempts and experiments pretty much consisted of taking a battleship and more or less just sticking a big flat piece of wood on top of one of the turrets. In port using a crane you would take a more or less standard plane and lower it onto the piece of plywood ontop of the turret. Then when at sea ( I think sometimes without having the BB actually underway) just have pilot start the engine and take off from his like 20 or 30 foot long plywood " Runway". Surprisingly enough thats to the sheer STOL capacity of the eras planes I think most of the time the plane would actually make it into the air. Of course they couldn't actually land on the BB ( and since these were land planes without wing floats or a flying boat fuselage they'd have to fly to the nearby designated landing zone to land.

A bunch of countries did experiments in that manner that later provided valuable experience and evidence that led to dedicated carriers and non carrier surface warships carrying catapult launched float planes.

I mean the whole process sounds utterly insane. Namely taking a plane where the concept of a " Safety feature" is heavily suggesting pilots should update their wills before every flight. Then taking a plane intended for land service and trying to launch it unaided off a " Airstrip" thats about 2.5 minivans long made off wood with the knowledge that if you don't get enough lift by the time you reach the edge your going splat at high velocity into the water and then trying to land in what is often enough a literal cow pasture with only the most basic navigation aids.

But more often then not the experiments worked and the pilots survived. Obviously not something you could do in combat ( since constructing the turret take off strip basically put the turret out of commission, the plane had no protection or maintenance facilities at all, and if the ship was even a short distance at sea the plane would have no chance of actually making it to land.
 
How is that particularly relevant ? That's a 1930s-1940 monococque. Very different airframe to aeroplanes from earlier in the century.

More wings = shorter lift. As folks have said and shown, WW1 planes had a very short take off requirement. Not quite Storch territory, but still darn short because of the lift of their extra wings.
 
That was also considerably helped by turning the carrier into the wind, plus the speed of the carrier itself. I don't know the proper term, but wind-across-the-deck was a significant help to achieving sufficient lift.
I vaguely recall someone looking at whether a circular area where people could take off in any direction based on the wind would be more efficient than a straight runway.

It allowed for a shorter take off but it required more space.
 
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