An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Evilprodigy]

Andalusians speak Arabic.

Mozarabic was the language of the assimilated Christians and basically wannabe-muslims who did not convert to Islam but loved Islamic culture.

When was Andalusia taken by the Marinids? I forget when that happened.

 

[MorningDew]

*face-palm*

Can you please try actually reading REAL HISTORY. Like go to the library and read a history book of Spain in the dark ages? It might help you understand more than the little you do.

Mosarabic was actually not that different from the other Iberian romance languages. It just had some Arabic loan words, just as Castillian (Spanish) does so today (they were probably inherited from mosarabic). The upper classes spoke Arabic fluently, but we don't know a whole lot about the common language of Andalusia before the reconquest, just that it had "some" (we don't actually know exactly how much) Arabic influence, so we call it mosarabic. However, I can understand if the term Mosarabic is confusing, because it does sound weird in relation to what it really is.

in the 1000's, the caliphate of Cordoba was losing control and breaking down, so it invited the Almoravids (a quite jihadist Berber dyinsity of the Maghreb) to help restore order. However, just like (sort of) what happened when the Celts of Britannia invited the Saxons, the Almoravids took control themselves, significantly reversing the reconquesta for the time being, but ruling with an iron fist. It made most of the Andalusians very distrustful of the Maghrebis. And then ittl, it happens again, remember the bit about the hammer of al-alandus? That guy with his "i get to rule Andalusia, bro keeps north Africa" diverted the culture of Andalusia away from the Maghreb and towards Europe for good. (some of this is guessing, could somebody confirm this?)

 

[Evilprodigy]

*face-palm*

Can you please try actually reading REAL HISTORY. Like go to the library and read a history book of Spain in the dark ages? It might help you understand more than the little you do.

Mosarabic was actually not that different from the other Iberian romance languages. It just had some Arabic loan words, just as Castillian (Spanish) does so today (they were probably inherited from mosarabic). The upper classes spoke Arabic fluently, but we don't know a whole lot about the common language of Andalusia before the reconquest, just that it had "some" (we dont actually know exactly how much) Arabic influence, so we call it mosarabic. However, I can understand if the term Mosarabic is confusing, because it does sound weird in relation to what it really is.

Huh? I didn't say any of that.

Andalusians speak Arabic, as in Arabic-Arabic. Mozarabic was a Romance language spoken by Christians in Anadalusia who liked Islamic culture but not enough to convert to Islam. Andalusians, as in Muslim Andalusians, as in the people who populate Andalusia ITTL, spoke Arabic.

 

[MorningDew]

I edited my post as well, probably should check that out. It has a section on why the Andalusians are distant from the rest of the Muslim world ittl.

The reason that the Arabic world is known as that is because the Arabic language is tied to the identity of being an Arab (as in your race). This is why Assyrian still exists (though almost extinct) and Persia and the stans and Indonesia don't have Arabic as their common language. Arabic becoming the common language came from Arabs migrating into Egypt and Iraq and the Maghreb and the previous peoples mass-switching identities, and all the other areas were either too far (Indonesia and tecknally albania) from the Arabian peninsula to settle Arabs or the previous cultures being too-entrenched (Andalusia, Persia, the Stans). However this did not prevent people from still becoming Muslims, just as it took a long ass time for the bible to be translated out of Latin. The only reason that Maghreb is fully Arabic is that the Romans never really settled there as much as they did Europe and it was easy for the Berbers to become Arabs as they had very similar languages and culture. and also a great migration of Arab tribes going there happened in the 1100's that eventually assimilated the remaining African romance speakers. but remember, in pre-reconquest Andalusia, all of the upper class DID speak Arabic fluently, so that is probably what you mean.

 

[Evilprodigy]

I edited my post as well, probably should check that out. It has a section on why the Andalusians are distant from the rest of the Muslim world ittl.

I'm well aware of the Almoravids, Almohads, Taifa Periods, etc. but that doesn't really change anything about the fact that Muslims in Andalusia spoke Arabic.

In fact, most of the Christians spoke it too but it was more like knowing Latin than it was a language they actually communicated in. This is a relatively simple statement I am making. Muslims in Andalusia spoke Arabic, Christians spoke Mozarabic, even Jews had their own language called Ladino (Basically a Spanish version of Yiddish). Andalusia is a primarily Muslim country, so it's people speak Arabic. Disliking the guys in Mauritania isn't going to make them forsake their own language. That happened IOTL as well, the Andalusi Muslims saw them as backwards unwashed uncultured tribesmen.

 

[MorningDew]

i just edited my post again, we type very fast .

And do you have evidence to back up what you say?

 

[Evilprodigy]

i just edited my post again, we type very fast .

Well it doesn't change anything from what I am saying... all I can really add is to just say you're wrong. Muslim Andalusians spoke Arabic, Mozarabic was the language of the Dhimmi.

And do you have evidence to back up what you say?

You tried googling?

It took me all of ten minutes to find stuff on Wikipedia but I could grab something a bit more scholarly with more time and effort.

"Andalusian Arabic appears to have spread rapidly and been in general oral use in most parts of Al-Andalus between the ninth and fifteenth centuries. The number of speakers is estimated to have peaked at around 5-7 million speakers around the eleventh and twelfth centuries..."

"The cultural language of Mozarabs continued to be Latin, but as time passed, young Mozarabs studied and even excelled at Arabic. The implantation of Arabic as the vernacular by the Moorish conquerors led the Christian polemicist Petrus Alvarus of Córdoba to famously lament the decline of spoken Latin among the local Christians."

I even found a part about my earlier statement that Mozarabs were essentially wannabe-Arabs that loved the culture but didn't want to convert:
"The use of Arabic cognomens by the Mozarab communities of Al-Andalus is emblematic of the adoption by the Christians of the outward manifestations of Arab-language Islamic culture. The Mozarabs employed Arabic-style names ... in purely Christian contexts. This demonstrates that they had acculturated thoroughly and that their Arabic names were not mere aliases adopted to facilitate their movement within Muslim society."

"In 1126, a great number of Mozarabs were expelled to North Africa by the Almoravids. Other Mozarabs fled to Northern Iberia. This constituted the end of the Mozarabic culture in Al-Andalus."

 

[MorningDew]

I'm not talking about the townspeople, i think almost all of them were Arabic through and through but i'm sure the peasant population were mostly latin (mosarabic) speaking.

Also, I think we're using mosarabic in different contexts. I'm using it to mean the common langue of the rural population, in effect for all the Latin dialects of pre-reconquest al-alandus.

Are you using it to just mean the wanna-babe Christians? If that's true, then sorry for the confusion! I hope I don't come across as a jerk.

However with all the wars devastating the cities and Arabic cultural centers of al-alandus, i still think their language will be a romance language in the end, just with a lot of Arabic words (basically reverse Maltese). And remember, your statics were for 1000 a.d. and that is considered the peak of "Islamic" Spain. With wars and their many other devastation (ittl they only really survived b/c of the hammer) affecting the cities (Cordoba especially) far more than the countryside should make a (definite) decline with Arabic as the vernacular, especially as it is related to the (in the Andalusians' eyes) hated Maghrebis. And at this point, (ittl, not otl) it really could go either way, but the Andalusians want to be (and are at this point, sort of) related to Spain (Castille and Portugal) and Aragon.

 

[Donald Reaver]

Pagan Vinland would be cool, but the POD was in the 13th century. Still, two guys can dream, can't they?

check out this timeline for a possible pagan vinland https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=356128

 

[Basileus444]

It looks like a lot of the questions got answered by other posters so I’ll just cover the ones that didn’t. Let me know if I missed any.​

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Swag of the swag: This TL is much better for the survival of ancient stuff. The OTL damage to the Acropolis is very easily butterflied away and right now it is used as an Orthodox church. The Pharos lighthouse was damaged in the 1300s but has been rebuilt. With no Hospitaliers in Rhodes the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus is still in ruins (done pre-POD) but most of the pieces are still there. Furthermore IOTL the Renaissance Papacy in their building projects pillaged a lot of the Roman ruins for building materials and most of that has been butterflied away thanks to the ‘German Exile’.​

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Darthfanta: The Ottomans, Omani, and Shimazu are capable of independent innovation. The rest of Asia prefers to copy/buy European weaponry, which is made quite easy since the Ship Lords use the ‘don’t sell guns to infidels’ rule as toilet paper.​

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Evilprodigy: Orthodox Church jurisdiction in the east is an ongoing process but Antioch has clearly one Round 1. When it comes to churches in Asia, Antioch has the advantage of precedent. Jerusalem, despite the religious significance of the see, has always been the most junior of the Patriarchs. Alexandria makes a lot of sense considering the trade routes, but such arguments mean nothing when it comes to church law. Still as the number of the Orthodox faithful expand in the east it is a subject that will come up for revision. One idea I’m considering is that of establishing a Sixth Patriarch of the Far East who is beneath the Five Apostolic Patriarchs because of no apostolic origins but above all Metropolitans. ​

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The New World is entirely off the Orthodox Church’s radar and any organization there would depend on how the congregations there came to be.​

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Niklaus: Al-Jahmr right now is small but growing steadily with exports of brazilwood and jungle products such as feathers, birds, and pelts, and tobacco and sugar plantations are getting started. Then there are the gold and diamonds in the interior, as of now undiscovered, although for Al-Jahmr’s sake those better be discovered after it is well established or it might have some unwanted guests who want to move in. My current tentative envisioning of South Numenor is that OTL Venezuela/Guiana/bulk of Brazil is Muslim. ​

/​

A pagan Vinland is impossible considering the POD, but various traditions derived from paganism still extant in Scandinavian Christianity is entirely probable although I would need suggestions. ​

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Al-Andalus and the Maghreb: The Andalusi and Maghrebi utterly despise each other (the famous saying of Loukas Notaras is going to get a twist). But the Andalusi are never going to give up Arabic, the language of the Koran and the Prophet. ​

 

[Basileus444]

1603: The Sparrowhawk incident itself surprisingly has little impact on either the Empire or the Triple Monarchy. Although embarrassing for the Romans, the material impact, in comparison to all the other issues the Empire faces, is minimal. However it does encourage some Triune pirates to go after Roman merchants in the Atlantic. Diplomatic protests do nothing as the pirates are too well connected to important elements of Triune society. The 600 tonner Akova is captured in June by a trio of pirates, two of which were financed by the Duke of Norfolk and the third by the Bishop of Boulogne.

One response by the Roman merchant consortiums who finance and run the trade convoys to Antwerp is to start hiring Arletian or more commonly Dutch warships as escorts. To make sure the escorts do not just take their fee and run when threatened by Triune forces, the escorts are paid with a percentage of the proceeds when the Romans make their destination. Considering that the more richly loaded Roman vessels bring a very large profit the Dutch are most energetic in protecting their charges.

Skirmishes in the Channel are not much compared to the crisis brewing in Germany. For three hundred years the House of Wittelsbach has presented a united front to the world, rising from Dukes of Bavaria to becoming the most impressive dynasty of Holy Roman Emperors since possibly the Ottonians. That unity is now sorely lacking.

On January 11, Emperor Wilhelm dies in Munich. Per his will the Margraviate of Brandenburg goes to his youngest son Ludwig, Saxony to his middle son Karl, and his remaining territories to his eldest son Frederick, King of the Romans and son-in-law of Empress Helena. It is assumed that he will be the next Holy Roman Emperor. However on January 20 Ludwig also dies, leaving only a widowed and childless daughter, Elizabeth, as his heiress.

Karl, already in Saxony, moves immediately and sequesters his late brother’s lands, ‘convincing’ his niece to join a nunnery which conveniently invalidates her claim. Friedrich demands that Karl vacate Brandenburg and restore it to Elizabeth (the powerful Archbishop of Cologne Ferdinand von Hohenzollern is standing by to nullify her vows on the grounds of duress). Karl refuses on the grounds that the Duke of Saxony has held suzerain rights over Brandenburg for many generations and that their father’s separation of the two was contrary to historical and legal precedent and the Act of Transference by which the Wittelsbachs took control.

Friedrich is more than annoyed by the rebuff, but then on February 19 Karl declares his bid for the Imperial title, claiming that his brother’s marriage to a heretic invalidates any prior claim, including his existed regal title, and spreading rumors that Friedrich and his children are closet Orthodox. The importance Friedrich places on the advice of his wife gives circumstantial evidence to Karl’s insinuations and Princess Kristina Drakina has steadfastly maintained her Orthodox faith (that she be allowed to do so was a condition of the marriage). Acting for himself as Elector of Saxony and Brandenburg and with the support of the Electors of Bohemia and Mainz, Karl declares himself the rightful Emperor.

The start of the Brothers’ War is on March 1, when both acting as ‘Emperor’ pronounce the Imperial Ban on each other. Although the ruthless shunting aside of his niece disgusted many, Karl is an extremely formidable opponent. Saxony has 1.3 million inhabitants with a well-developed mining industry, making the Duchy richer and more populous than Bavaria. Brandenburg adds little in terms of wealth but is another 400,000 souls, although the Brandenburgers’ loyalty to Karl is not great. Aside from his direct territories Karl also has the backing of Bohemia and most of the Upper and Lower Saxon Circles (Friedrich’s isolated Duchy of Schleswig-Holstein is quickly overrun), plus significant backers in the Swabian and Franconian Circles. The Archbishopric of Mainz, fierce rival of Cologne, is another powerful ally giving Karl influence in the Electoral and Upper Rhenish Circles. The dubious legality of it actions is more than canceled out by the apparent opportunity to curb Wittelsbach power in the Reich.

Friedrich has Bavaria, which is not quite on the level of Saxony (1.1 million) but still comparable, plus numerous scattered holdings throughout the Empire, although their small size and dispersion make their usefulness limited. However a marriage alliance between Friedrich’s eldest son Manfred and a daughter of Augustus I, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel and Hildesheim (formerly a bishopric but secularized to provide military support in the Hungarian War) and Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel and Hesse-Marburg, Head of the House of Welf, brings a formidable and former rival into the lists on Friedrich’s side.

An even more powerful ally is the Archbishop of Cologne. Through fair means (and a few foul) the House of Hohenzollern, hitherto insignificant, has supplied the Archbishops since 1534 (as well as one pope). At this point Cologne’s territory comprises the entire Rhine Valley from the borders of Cleves to the town of Koblenz. By July ten thousand men march under the black Cross of St. George.

The Burgundian Circle also backs Friedrich, giving him access to the money markets of Antwerp while his marriage with Kristina Drakina greatly facilitates his access to the bankers of Rhomania. A massive loan of 2.2 million hyperpyra, secured on Tyrolese silver mines and salt pans, is floated from the Plethons. With those funds he procures an army of Castilian mercenaries which lands in Genoa (taking the Channel route is considered too risky as Henry I favors Karl) and marches up what will be dubbed the Spanish Road to the central Rhine, joined on route by Bernese cohorts.

King Theodoros Doukas of Lombardy is delighted by the chaos in Germany which means he does not need to watch his back. The Duke of Florence is Franz von Wittelsbach, a cousin of the brothers, although before his appointment to Florence he was effectively a non-entity in Germany. But his family name made Theodoros wary of attacking until now.

His first goal is Lucca, the largest city in the Duchy after Florence itself, but to his frustration the Luccese do not welcome him as a liberator from their Florentine oppressors. One foreign monarch is much the same as another. So they slam the gates in his face and fire on his vanguard, forcing a siege. Theodoros commands a respectable army well equipped with cannons, but Lucca’s ramparts are modern and thick.

By itself the Florentine army cannot beat the Lombards but Duke Franz is not alone. Pope Martin VII orders Theodoros to withdraw from Florentine territory upon pain of excommunication. Theodoros is a Catholic but is unmoved, thus Martin VII excommunicates the King and orders the Papal army to the support of the Florentines.

Another Florentine ally is Duke Ercole II Malatesta. Succeeding to the throne in 1580, he has overseen a general increase in population and prosperity in the Duchy of the Marche. Although Ancona is dwarfed by Venetia, it is a respectable trade center comparable to Bari, Ragusa, and Dyrrachion although a budding glass industry has been ruined by Sicilian competition. Despite that blow the Marche is a respectable minor power.

Pisa too joins the coalition, frightened at the close proximity of the Lombards whose cannonades can be heard on the Field of Miracles. However the city’s days as a great seaport have long since faded thanks to the silting of the Ebro so its contribution is limited. Genoa and Siena both stand aloof of the coalition, Genoa because of its vulnerability to Lombard attack and isolation from the coalition and Siena because of its hatred for Florence.

The combined coalition army is 11,000 Florentines, 8,000 Anconitans, 5,000 Papal troops, and 400 Pisans. Theodoros’s army numbers 29,000 strong with 56 cannons to the allies’ 35 plus a 9 to 5 advantage in heavy cavalry and a 3 to 2 advantage in light horse. The Allies look south to the Despotate of Sicily who can bring another 15,000 men to the fight (eight thousand more are operating in North Africa in support of the Romans).

Theodoros know he needs to smash the coalition before the Sicilians, marshaling at Naples, can reinforce. So despite the danger of leaving the Luccese garrison intact in his rear Theodoros breaks camp and marches on Florence itself, hoping to bring the coalition to battle. A large cavalry skirmish at Montecarlo between Lombard and Anconitan horse ends poorly for the Lombard cavalry, boosting the coalition’s morale although barely slowing the Lombard advance.

The initial allied plan was to remain near Florence as a base, waiting until the Sicilians arrived to give overwhelming force. However the outcome of Montecarlo and an outbreak of plague in the city encourage the allied commanders, who run the army as a committee, to move westward. The Lombards do not appear as fearsome as their numbers suggest, it would be good to break them up before the army is infected, and why should good Catholics wait for an army of heretics and Jews before giving battle?

The two armies engage at Vaiano, an Anconitan attack breaking up under Lombard artillery before doing much damage. Theodoros commits his foot who sweep the Anconitan line with volley fire and then charge with plug ambrolars fixed. Invented in the Georgian town of Ambrolauri, they are eighteen-inch-long blades whose hilts are fitted so that they can be jammed into the muzzle, giving the gunner a bladed weapon for melee. It is believed that the Lombards got the idea via their port of Rimini, which has some trade connections with Anaklia, the chief port of the Kingdom of Georgia (and the home of several resorts catering to Roman dynatoi).

The Lombard infantry breaks through the Anconitan line, albeit not without serious loss and difficulty even with their new weapons. If the Papal commander had brought his reserve up when requested it is highly likely the breach could have been plugged. Instead the delay is fatal. Theodoros breaks the allied line, rolling up the Anconitans and pounding the Florentines severely on their flank. The Papal army withdraws with little loss. Based on the casualty ratio, 2100 Lombards to 2900 Allies, it is not a tremendous victory for Theodoros. However the Anconitans are furious at the lack of support they received from their allies, as they took 1900 of the casualties, and withdraw back to the March. The Florentines, blaming the Papal troops for the Anconitans’ grievances, bicker with them which backfires as the Papal troops retire back to Rome.

There will be no help from Sicily either. Al-Izmirli has launched another raid against Sicily, his most deadly yet. At the battle of Capo Gallo he inflicts an absolutely crushing defeat on the Sicilian navy, sinking or capturing twenty one warships out of thirty eight and inflicting over fifty nine hundred casualties out of ten thousand Sicilians. Three out of five Roman warships also at the battle were sunk.

The Barbary fleet took respectable losses of its own, ten warships and two thousand casualties, but not enough to prevent Al-Izmirli from descending on the Sicilian coast. Sailing along the northern Sicilian coast he sacks everything in sight, troops raiding as far as ten miles inland, with only Palermo remaining immune. Continuing east, although Al-Izmirli does not attempt to force the fortifications of Messina, the Despotic capital, he does sally close enough that the Despot can watch from his palace’s dock as Izmirli hurls many of his prisoners from Capo Gallo, chained together and weighed down, into the ocean. Aside from an act of terror, Izmirli does this to lessen the pending glut on the slave market and the subsequent drop in slave prices. Those who are left will fetch a higher price as a result.

Reggio di Calabria is not as well fortified as Messina and falls to Izmirli, although attempts to probe into the Calabrian countryside are hurled back by the Sicilian army, whose vanguard has forced-marched from the muster at Naples. The prisoners the Sicilians take are divided into ten lots. A Droungarios is assigned to each lot and flips a Roman hyperpyron. If it is heads, the prisoners are burned alive. If it is tails, they are impaled and left out in the sun.

Izmirli, though enraged, is not yet finished. A powerful reinforcement led by his son joins him, more than making good all his losses, although not enough to enable him to take on the Sicilian army, whose light cannons are already lumbering into view of the ramparts. Sailing south till out of sight of land to give the impression he is heading back to Africa or at least to harry southern Sicily, he then sails east.

The Romans, suspicious that Izmirli may turn east, have taken some precautions. The Corfu and Crete squadrons, supported by two armed merchantmen from Venetia and two Ragusan vessels, have joined at Kythira and the Imperial fleet is stationed forward at Naxos, Andros, and Piraeus, split up as none of the anchorages can provision the whole fleet on short notice. The Thracian tagma is moving into Thessaly and militia kentarchia have marshalled at Corinth, Patras, Monemvasia, and Kalamata.

However the Romans drastically underestimate the strength and speed of Izmirli’s fleet. Reports that isolated corsair ships are attacking the Mani draw out the Kythira force and in sight of the towers of Vatheia is attacked by Izmirli, who has a three-to-one advantage in hulls and four-to-one in men (although only two-to-one in cannons). Despite a vigorous attack from the Roman right wing, spearheaded by a fifty-gunner, that manages to drive three Barbary ships ashore where their crews are butchered by the men of Vatheia, the result is a Roman debacle. Fourteen out of nineteen Roman ships are sunk or captured, plus both Ragusan and one Venetian, and twenty one hundred men. Izmirli loses four ships and three hundred and fifty men.

The men of Vatheia flee back to their town but are caught in the open and massacred, the town rushed and sacked. The Berber forces spend the next four days raiding the area and capturing much booty, although suffering heavily from the Maniots who are quite good with fowling pieces. One column of two hundred, probing northward, is annihilated when the Slavs of Mount Taygetos ambush them.

Preferring victims who are not as good at fighting back, Izmirli heads east, sacking Kythira. Milos is the next to suffer but there Izmirli falls ill. Returning home with a small squadron, he leaves the rest of the fleet under the command of his son with strict orders not to remain in the Aegean for more than seven days. By that point the Imperial Fleet will have deployed from its anchorage at Constantinople.

The Berber fleet proceeds on to Sifnos and then Serifos as the Imperial Fleet, far closer than Izmirli suspected, converges in overwhelming force. The corsairs approach Kanala, on the southern shores of Kythnos, with fifty seven ships on September 8. They overwhelm the town, fanning out to raid the rest of the island. The next morning the Imperial Fleet, one hundred and twenty two warships, including the Andreas Niketas, the first three-decker in the world, under the command of Megas Doux Alexios Angelos, great-grandson of Andreas Niketas and grandson of the Salty Prince, blockades the harbor.

​

Mounting 98 cannons, Andreas Niketas was the most powerful warship of her day. Painted entirely in black when first in service, unlike this painting, the women of the Barbary Coast knew her as ‘Widow-maker’. ​

Alexios has no intention of trying to force the harbor. The Berbers can sit there and rot. Supply ships organized from Smyrna keep him amply stocked while the Berbers cannot possibly hope to feed themselves for long. The Berbers know this. Slaughtering their prisoners to lighten their ships, on September 12 they charge out hoping that some of them might escape. Eleven succeed.

The Romans are utterly enraged and the orders from the White Palace are to show no mercy. Pirates are the enemy of all mankind and these pirates have proven to be particularly noxious. Several hundred prisoners are taken including Izmirli’s son. They are all decapitated but pails of their blood are saved. Izmirli’s son is left for last and instead of being beheaded he is force-fed the blood of his men until he literally chokes to death on them. For good measure his body is buried with a pig.

September 12 is a good day for Roman arms. On that same day at Aqrah the Army of Amida, 17,000 strong, is attacked by an Ottoman army 24,000 strong. Despite heavy attacks from Janissaries well supported by artillery the Romans hold their lines until the Army of Edessa comes crashing down on the Ottomans’ left flank, driving it back in disarray although the Ottomans avoid a rout. The day ends with the Romans in command of the field, taking a thousand casualties but inflicting twenty five hundred. At 3 PM, as Andreas Niketas sent her fifth Berber ship to the bottom and the Army of Edessa launched its flank attack, the city of Mosul surrenders to Stefanos Monomakos.

 

[Avrorrange]

Basileus444,there's a problem about what you wrote.The King of the Romans is already the emperor-elect.You can only be the King of the Romans if the electors have already voted for you.You do not require another vote to be emperor.Depending on whether the pope agreed the emperor doesn't need to be crowned directly by him(which was a privilege given to the Habsburg emperors later on),all the King of the Romans required is a coronation by the Pope.Even if the Pope refused to crown the King of the Romans,the King of the Romans still have the same legal rights over the empire as the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire once that office has been vacant.In effect,the King of the Romans was the equivalent to the position of co-emperor in the ERE.

 

[DDJR]

The Imperial Fleet will make a retaliation for all these depredations? A strong response (although i can't really expect a new Bizerte) would be very entertaining to read.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

I wonder if the Barbary states will ever get a colony of their own.

Anyways, it seems the Lombards are always trying to bite off more than they can chew. They really should go for a more gradual expansion if possible. Which probably isn't the case.

 

[Basileus444]

Some revisions made based on darthfanta's comments.

 

[Calsidon]

I wonder if the Barbary states will ever get a colony of their own.

Probably not, they both don't seem too interested in colonization in the new world and have the fact that pretty much every great naval power barring the Triunes despise them beyond reason and would do everything in their power to shatter any kind of colonial attempt.

 

[frustrated progressive]

Eleven ships out of how many, and is Izmirli among the survivors?

 

[Stark]

Eleven ships out of how many, and is Izmirli among the survivors?

He got ill and retreated before battle with Imperial fleet, it's all in the update.

Hm, so Sicilian fleet is crippled and a few of Roman regional squadrons are wiped out. That doesn't sound good for the security of western sea aproaches.

I wonder how long until they are all replaced? I guess Venetian and Imperial arsenal can replace ships pretty fast, but is there money and sailors to man them?

Also, do the Sicilians have an arsenal of their own? I seem to recall one being in Messina or somewhere.

So something like full muster of Sicialian army is 23,000 men? I expected a bit more honestly. They're the Tagmata-themata type, not full proffesionals like Imperial troops?

 

[HanEmpire]

I'm not sure about a Naval Arsenal, but the Sicilians make their own Fregatai-class warships. Calabria has a substantial armaments industry though, IIRC.

 

[Avrorrange]

He got ill and retreated before battle with Imperial fleet, it's all in the update.

Hm, so Sicilian fleet is crippled and a few of Roman regional squadrons are wiped out. That doesn't sound good for the security of western sea aproaches.

I wonder how long until they are all replaced? I guess Venetian and Imperial arsenal can replace ships pretty fast, but is there money and sailors to man them?

Also, do the Sicilians have an arsenal of their own? I seem to recall one being in Messina or somewhere.

So something like full muster of Sicialian army is 23,000 men? I expected a bit more honestly. They're the Tagmata-themata type, not full proffesionals like Imperial troops?

For a place like Sicily(Southern Italy plus the Island of Sicily),23,000 seems legit.Sicily doesn't really have a large population that makes it a major power.