This makes me think that the result of the civil war might be less obvious - Ody, with Demetrios and Alt-Napoleon as party of Team New Era
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
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This makes me think that the result of the civil war might be less obvious - Ody, with Demetrios and Alt-Napoleon as party of Team New Era
Hopefully B444 has already written it, since things are planned in advanced.
Going by how the ToT ended, the eventually victor has had a POV update. Andreas III was the first big red herring, it's just a question of how many more B444 has up his sleeve.
Byzantinophiles will only be satisfied when we develop technology to go back in time and bring the Empire to it's rightful place as hegemon of the whole Earth. I should know, I'm one of them.
Still though, the Empire has been losing territory here and there for awhile now. Plus the coming war looks to be pretty devastating.
I think it is more how it is written really, often I have to remind myself of the actual position of the Roman Empire because it really doesn't read like it. Every loss is presented as great failure on the part of the Romans and potentially catastrophic while every success since Andreas Niketas is just as the bare minimum or outright trivial. Contrasted with pretty much every other polity(Hungary, HRE, Ottomans, Russia, Spain, Triunes and such) where the narration seems to present their losses, victories and current state more objectively.
Or at least that is how I recall things.
Or at least that is how I recall things.
Babyrage: Check out the succession update in the threadmarks. All the information there is still valid. The problem with Elizabeth and the bastard children is that by themselves they aren’t a credible player, but can be an extremely powerful boon as an ally.
I think the general consensus will be-
Andreas II: Great general and Emperor for the short time he was on the throne.
Helena I: Mixed, really good domestic policy in first half of reign but there’s also the excessive marriage alliances and the War of the Rivers. She also gets some spillover from all the Demetrian wars in the second half. So it depends on how one weighs the pros and cons.
Demetrios II: A disaster, although the Empire has seen much worse. Lots of pointless wars, many of which ended in defeats and even the victories were excessively expensive. Although a few might argue that the Eternal War, in preventing Iskandar from consolidating an Indian Empire, might have been in the long-term in the interests of the Romans.
Andreas III: Showed potential and had some good ideas, but failed to act on any significantly while on the throne. Showed a serious neglect for the succession though comparable to that of Basil II and he at least conquered Bulgaria.
Napoleon is still a young teenager and Egyptian naval cadet so he is far far away from playing in politics, for now.
I have everything outlined and planned. Now is the task of fleshing it all out.
Stark: If Elizabeth had an underage child by Andreas, she’d be practically guaranteed as regent. But no kid makes all the difference. By herself she doesn’t stand a chance and she knows it. But she can be an Elizabeth of York.
ImperatorAlexander: Demetrios is popular with the masses. One problem though is that he was also a member of the Mashhadshar delegation (although he was barely involved in the negotiations) so he’s damned by association in the eyes of the army.
There’s no proof but any with uncharitable feelings towards Elizabeth does have a lot of ammunition.
HanEmpire: The Lady Jahzara says that you were not supposed to notice. This might cause complications that need to be, ahem, cleaned…
JohnSmith: Elizabeth was in Varna when her husband died but Helena II died a month later, more than enough time for her to return to the capital. She would’ve been in attendance at Andreas III’s funeral.
Jahzara has no formal authority. She’s just the wife of the Eparch.
The Ethiopians are warily concerned. Wading into a Roman succession crisis isn’t Gonder’s idea of fun and it is very important to stay on the good side of whoever wins. Hopefully Jahzara, if she became Empress or Dowager Empress, wouldn’t feel vindictive considering she’s now in power in a much larger Empire. Plus if Jahzara did try to wreck a centuries-old alliance that is strongly in the interest of the Empire solely out of a personal vendetta, a huge portion of the Roman bureaucracy and army would be up in arms (figuratively).
Kimo321: If Elizabeth was from a Roman Orthodox family with her relation to Helena II, she’d likely be fine. If she could act as regent for an underage son of Andreas III she’d also likely be fine. But her origins as a German Catholic, if nothing else, make her hard for the Romans to swallow straight. So standing alone for her isn’t an option.
Hegemon of Earth? Such small ambitions. #ByzantineUniverseBestUniverse.
RogueTraderEnthusiast:
Jahzara-We need a new Emperor, a second Good Emperor would be really nice.
Demetrios-Second? Don’t you people realize that the remake is never as good as the original? ‘Makes note.’
Jahzara-Wait a minute, why do you have a Necromancy for Dummies book?
Demetrios-BECAUSE I DON’T WANT THE JOB!
Charcolt: Yeah, the Drakoi are going to be remembered as ‘great generals, mediocre rulers’, although that does fit with Andreas II Drakos being reluctant to take up the mantle in the first place.
Athena Siderina (I’m assuming it’s Siderina) will be an important player in upcoming updates, even though she doesn’t get a lot of ‘screen time’. I’m basing her off of Eugenie del Montijo and trying to work more ways for her to get into the timeline.
Floppy_Seal99: Three of his four grandparents (the fourth was Timur II) were born in the Empire, so while he’s not completely, he’s probably majority Anatolian.
Andry2806:
“ITTL Game of Thrones”
Narrator: Who will seize the Iron Throne? House…wait, where is it?
Demetrios: Do you really think I’d fight so I could sit on that uncomfortable contraption? I melted it down into a cannon to shoot anyone trying to give me the job.
Narrator: Um, that’s not in the script. Excuse us folks, we’re having some technical difficulties. Wait, what are you doing now?
Demetrios: Planting bombs under the Lannister privies. Crossbows are so last century.
Jkarr: Wait, whose side are you on?
Duke of Nova Scotia: A Timur on the throne of Constantinople…the ultimate nightmare of the Ottomans.
If Elizabeth went “all your base now belong to us” she’d be given a coat with a lot of pockets and told to jump off the White Palace roof for…science, yes for science. ‘Shove’
I do have plans for the Ottomans…
Aristomenes and Christos: I’m letting the reader decide who he was.
Neptune: A good analogy might be a happy wealthy man…who every now and then gets suddenly kneed in the balls. Things could be a whole lot worse but still, ouch.
Chrrno: Well, the Roman Empire is the ‘main character’ of the TL with vastly more attention paid to it than everyone else, so it’s only naturally that the issues it faces get magnified and dramatized, perhaps sometimes excessively so.
Stark: It used to be an arena of battle between the Portuguese, Ethiopians, and Omani (the latter two usually cooperating against the first). In the past few decades the Ethiopians and Omani have largely driven the now-Spanish out of the area. I haven’t gotten into specifics since the Romans aren’t involved.
General Notice: I’m currently working on a very large narrative section. For comparison, it is already 40% longer than the Black Day update, which I believe holds the record for longest update, and I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m only 2/3 of the way through it (I have everything outlined but am not sure exactly how long all the scenes will be). So I’m wondering whether I should keep it together as one giant bloc or post ‘normal update’ size sections.
A giant bloc will probably make for better narrative cohesion since everything will be together. But that means there will be still be quite a wait before the next update comes out. Now some of you might say ‘hey, it’s already 2/3 done, just finish it’. However I don’t post an update until the next two updates after that are finished so I’m always ahead of what’s posted. I like doing that because it means if significant issues or questions get raised in comments I can just integrate them in upcoming updates and that’s easier if they’re already written. But that means that the big narrative update wouldn’t be posted until I finish it AND write the updates after that. In contrast if I go with normal size I can start posting stuff now.
So what do you all prefer?
I think the general consensus will be-
Andreas II: Great general and Emperor for the short time he was on the throne.
Helena I: Mixed, really good domestic policy in first half of reign but there’s also the excessive marriage alliances and the War of the Rivers. She also gets some spillover from all the Demetrian wars in the second half. So it depends on how one weighs the pros and cons.
Demetrios II: A disaster, although the Empire has seen much worse. Lots of pointless wars, many of which ended in defeats and even the victories were excessively expensive. Although a few might argue that the Eternal War, in preventing Iskandar from consolidating an Indian Empire, might have been in the long-term in the interests of the Romans.
Andreas III: Showed potential and had some good ideas, but failed to act on any significantly while on the throne. Showed a serious neglect for the succession though comparable to that of Basil II and he at least conquered Bulgaria.
Napoleon is still a young teenager and Egyptian naval cadet so he is far far away from playing in politics, for now.
I have everything outlined and planned. Now is the task of fleshing it all out.
Stark: If Elizabeth had an underage child by Andreas, she’d be practically guaranteed as regent. But no kid makes all the difference. By herself she doesn’t stand a chance and she knows it. But she can be an Elizabeth of York.
ImperatorAlexander: Demetrios is popular with the masses. One problem though is that he was also a member of the Mashhadshar delegation (although he was barely involved in the negotiations) so he’s damned by association in the eyes of the army.
There’s no proof but any with uncharitable feelings towards Elizabeth does have a lot of ammunition.
HanEmpire: The Lady Jahzara says that you were not supposed to notice. This might cause complications that need to be, ahem, cleaned…
JohnSmith: Elizabeth was in Varna when her husband died but Helena II died a month later, more than enough time for her to return to the capital. She would’ve been in attendance at Andreas III’s funeral.
Jahzara has no formal authority. She’s just the wife of the Eparch.
The Ethiopians are warily concerned. Wading into a Roman succession crisis isn’t Gonder’s idea of fun and it is very important to stay on the good side of whoever wins. Hopefully Jahzara, if she became Empress or Dowager Empress, wouldn’t feel vindictive considering she’s now in power in a much larger Empire. Plus if Jahzara did try to wreck a centuries-old alliance that is strongly in the interest of the Empire solely out of a personal vendetta, a huge portion of the Roman bureaucracy and army would be up in arms (figuratively).
Kimo321: If Elizabeth was from a Roman Orthodox family with her relation to Helena II, she’d likely be fine. If she could act as regent for an underage son of Andreas III she’d also likely be fine. But her origins as a German Catholic, if nothing else, make her hard for the Romans to swallow straight. So standing alone for her isn’t an option.
Hegemon of Earth? Such small ambitions. #ByzantineUniverseBestUniverse.
RogueTraderEnthusiast:
Jahzara-We need a new Emperor, a second Good Emperor would be really nice.
Demetrios-Second? Don’t you people realize that the remake is never as good as the original? ‘Makes note.’
Jahzara-Wait a minute, why do you have a Necromancy for Dummies book?
Demetrios-BECAUSE I DON’T WANT THE JOB!
Charcolt: Yeah, the Drakoi are going to be remembered as ‘great generals, mediocre rulers’, although that does fit with Andreas II Drakos being reluctant to take up the mantle in the first place.
Athena Siderina (I’m assuming it’s Siderina) will be an important player in upcoming updates, even though she doesn’t get a lot of ‘screen time’. I’m basing her off of Eugenie del Montijo and trying to work more ways for her to get into the timeline.
Floppy_Seal99: Three of his four grandparents (the fourth was Timur II) were born in the Empire, so while he’s not completely, he’s probably majority Anatolian.
Andry2806:
“ITTL Game of Thrones”
Narrator: Who will seize the Iron Throne? House…wait, where is it?
Demetrios: Do you really think I’d fight so I could sit on that uncomfortable contraption? I melted it down into a cannon to shoot anyone trying to give me the job.
Narrator: Um, that’s not in the script. Excuse us folks, we’re having some technical difficulties. Wait, what are you doing now?
Demetrios: Planting bombs under the Lannister privies. Crossbows are so last century.
Jkarr: Wait, whose side are you on?
Duke of Nova Scotia: A Timur on the throne of Constantinople…the ultimate nightmare of the Ottomans.
If Elizabeth went “all your base now belong to us” she’d be given a coat with a lot of pockets and told to jump off the White Palace roof for…science, yes for science. ‘Shove’
I do have plans for the Ottomans…
Aristomenes and Christos: I’m letting the reader decide who he was.
Neptune: A good analogy might be a happy wealthy man…who every now and then gets suddenly kneed in the balls. Things could be a whole lot worse but still, ouch.
Chrrno: Well, the Roman Empire is the ‘main character’ of the TL with vastly more attention paid to it than everyone else, so it’s only naturally that the issues it faces get magnified and dramatized, perhaps sometimes excessively so.
Stark: It used to be an arena of battle between the Portuguese, Ethiopians, and Omani (the latter two usually cooperating against the first). In the past few decades the Ethiopians and Omani have largely driven the now-Spanish out of the area. I haven’t gotten into specifics since the Romans aren’t involved.
General Notice: I’m currently working on a very large narrative section. For comparison, it is already 40% longer than the Black Day update, which I believe holds the record for longest update, and I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m only 2/3 of the way through it (I have everything outlined but am not sure exactly how long all the scenes will be). So I’m wondering whether I should keep it together as one giant bloc or post ‘normal update’ size sections.
A giant bloc will probably make for better narrative cohesion since everything will be together. But that means there will be still be quite a wait before the next update comes out. Now some of you might say ‘hey, it’s already 2/3 done, just finish it’. However I don’t post an update until the next two updates after that are finished so I’m always ahead of what’s posted. I like doing that because it means if significant issues or questions get raised in comments I can just integrate them in upcoming updates and that’s easier if they’re already written. But that means that the big narrative update wouldn’t be posted until I finish it AND write the updates after that. In contrast if I go with normal size I can start posting stuff now.
So what do you all prefer?
Deleted member 81475
Athena-Napoleon shipping reignited.
I always love an update and honestly if it came in chunks I'd happily reread the whole thing as each came out. That said, if you feel it flows better as a bloc then I'd be happy to wait.
Elizabeth is smart. I bet that as soon as Andreas died she started searching for another male claimant to marry/ally with, one that she could influence. Odysseus wouldn't be viable option because A) He doesn't like her and B) Demetrios is his dad. The bastards are too young and she hates them anyway. Looking at the succession update the most likely (domestic) candidate will be Alexandros Drakos. The question is, who has gotten their hands on him first?
I agree with whatever you feel is best. I know it will definitely be worth waiting for.
It looks like the only way Demetrios stays alive is if he or his son take the throne, he's too big a threat for another claimant and other factions within the Empire, and he's lost his biggest supporter in Andreas III.
Demetrios needs a prominent military ally to shore up his position, if only there was a Strategos who is popular with the army who was also close with the late Andreas III and also was very unorthodox in his views.
"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them [by their wife]".
I'm going to speculate that this massive narrative update will cover some of the contenders (foreign and local) for the Roman throne. It would be good to get some reactions to the death of the Emperor and see their mindset. Odysseus seems intent on making the Empire great again but maybe he's another red herring? How many does B444 have up his sleeve?
My memory leaves me, but way back down the line didn't the family choose the name Sideros because it meant Iron?
Now rules this House Sideros, built on iron roots. Demetrios>Odysseus co-emperors? Ody to be the sword while Demetrios the shield. Demetrios can maintain a lower profile, working the economics as senior emperor to a grander scale, than he ever could as Eparch. While Odysseus and his hopefully glorious military endeavors both in the field and the classroom make good the planning Andreas set up.
They have the best PR right now with who counts, Odysseus had been beside Andreas from almost day one when he was marching with the army. Demetrios as has been mentioned, has the backing of the people with his social leanings. This is the 17th century while a lot has gone on tech and societal levels, some more accelerated than others, the make up of how the empire functions should need to be revamped. Demetrios is the man to do it. While we are not near Industrial Revolution, the Factory-ing of production is going on and has been for a some time now. More regulated sea routes, steady flow of income raw goods, could see an even stronger consumer middle-class.
The Empire needs it, because while the past few rulers haven't been terrible, there hasn't been a single bureaucrat among them. IIRC, the last serious reforms were the Heraklean/Spider Prince era, and those were notes from Theodosios IV.
Then again who knows, both could be on the way to the Constantinople after being raised, and a gale comes up and sinks them.
I wait with baited breath.
Now rules this House Sideros, built on iron roots. Demetrios>Odysseus co-emperors? Ody to be the sword while Demetrios the shield. Demetrios can maintain a lower profile, working the economics as senior emperor to a grander scale, than he ever could as Eparch. While Odysseus and his hopefully glorious military endeavors both in the field and the classroom make good the planning Andreas set up.
They have the best PR right now with who counts, Odysseus had been beside Andreas from almost day one when he was marching with the army. Demetrios as has been mentioned, has the backing of the people with his social leanings. This is the 17th century while a lot has gone on tech and societal levels, some more accelerated than others, the make up of how the empire functions should need to be revamped. Demetrios is the man to do it. While we are not near Industrial Revolution, the Factory-ing of production is going on and has been for a some time now. More regulated sea routes, steady flow of income raw goods, could see an even stronger consumer middle-class.
The Empire needs it, because while the past few rulers haven't been terrible, there hasn't been a single bureaucrat among them. IIRC, the last serious reforms were the Heraklean/Spider Prince era, and those were notes from Theodosios IV.
Then again who knows, both could be on the way to the Constantinople after being raised, and a gale comes up and sinks them.
I wait with baited breath.
They're Timur's descendants, so chose a Greek translation as their new name.
Timur literally means iron in Turkic/Mongolian.
If memory serves me right B444 mentioned that a big factor that will allow the Empire to keep up with their materially bigger rivals such as Uber-Germany and the UK is better management and utilisation of their resources.
The Empire needs reform and Demetrios with his tax reform and his skills is the ticket to the Empires future relevance as a great power. Surely these massive civil wars are adding up when their rivals are getting off relatively easy with any of their problems.
The Empire needs reform and Demetrios with his tax reform and his skills is the ticket to the Empires future relevance as a great power. Surely these massive civil wars are adding up when their rivals are getting off relatively easy with any of their problems.